I ride in the mountains and I always have issues using the last 1/3 to 1/4 of the fuel tank when hill climbing because of the fuel sloshing to the back of the tank away from the fuel pickup when going uphill. I'm good for 5-10 seconds before air gets into the line and the engine bogs out. This sometimes causes problems getting out at the end of the day as there may be some steep long hills and I end up having to side hill keeping the left side lowest. This is not always possible though...I've also done some impressive endos over the bars when the engine suddenly starves. Has anyone solved this issue by creating a resevoir that gets periodically filled when the Hawk tanks is level? Or has anyone created a resevior tank between 2 fuel pumps? This is a problem on both the '05 600 and '08 800. Both fuel pickups are located left side midbottom tank. ...any suggestions on solving this?
mtn Hawking-Problems using last 1/3 fuel tank
- Thread starter whistlerhawk
- Start date
-
- Tags
- hair gel for lizards
I used to Own an Arctic cat sled. In the tank it has three pick up point's two in the rear and 1 up front. They are flat is lay on the bottom nicely. Buy three pick up filter's and buy some gas line to fit for length and placement. Should solve the problem. I think I'm going to add that to the list of summer fun.
T
TLKDPROD
Well-known member
Me too !
I've been having the exact same problem as you whistlerhawk! 5 to 10 seconds fully pinned going up is about what I get too and it shuts right off. I have the 45 liter tank and this is a very embarassing problem... I suggest the following : adding some kind of an auxiliary "reservoir", let's say 1/3 of a liter capacity, like a couple inch long piece of 1-1/2" PVC tube or copper tube with "fuel-type" fittings at both ends (should be able to find that at Home Depot) acting as the auxiliary reservoir hooked up to the fuel line in between the main tank and the fuel pump right next to where the air filters are would seem to me like the simplest idea doesnt' it ? Ne need for a second fuel pump, just cut your fuel line and hook up the piece of PVC pipe to the line and figure out a way to mount that so it doesn't touch the rad and melts off and there you go. Think I'll give it a try right tonight to be able to test it on sunday in McBride, BC. If it works, I will consider manufacturing one out of aluminum, with mounting bolts to fit the left side frame. I'll keep you aware if that worked or not.
I've been having the exact same problem as you whistlerhawk! 5 to 10 seconds fully pinned going up is about what I get too and it shuts right off. I have the 45 liter tank and this is a very embarassing problem... I suggest the following : adding some kind of an auxiliary "reservoir", let's say 1/3 of a liter capacity, like a couple inch long piece of 1-1/2" PVC tube or copper tube with "fuel-type" fittings at both ends (should be able to find that at Home Depot) acting as the auxiliary reservoir hooked up to the fuel line in between the main tank and the fuel pump right next to where the air filters are would seem to me like the simplest idea doesnt' it ? Ne need for a second fuel pump, just cut your fuel line and hook up the piece of PVC pipe to the line and figure out a way to mount that so it doesn't touch the rad and melts off and there you go. Think I'll give it a try right tonight to be able to test it on sunday in McBride, BC. If it works, I will consider manufacturing one out of aluminum, with mounting bolts to fit the left side frame. I'll keep you aware if that worked or not.
god idea i was having the same problem i think i'll try it this weekend you said you were riding mcbride renshaw?
Please Keep me posted
Let me know how you guys make out and if your idea works of creating a resevoir between the tank and fuel pump. The only issue I was thinking is maybe air might get caught in the resevoir though. Somehow the air has to be able to escape? or would it get pulled through... If you solve it, this is definatley a huge problem for any hawk that hits the mountains...
multiple pick ups in the tank would still make me wonder why air wouldn't get sucked in rather than fuel in those pickups that are sitting high and dry?
Let me know how you guys make out and if your idea works of creating a resevoir between the tank and fuel pump. The only issue I was thinking is maybe air might get caught in the resevoir though. Somehow the air has to be able to escape? or would it get pulled through... If you solve it, this is definatley a huge problem for any hawk that hits the mountains...
multiple pick ups in the tank would still make me wonder why air wouldn't get sucked in rather than fuel in those pickups that are sitting high and dry?
well
it work's for arctic cat to have multiple pick up's, I've climbed up mountain's on a low tank of fuel and the Cat never bogged out. That sound's like a Idea for a reserve bottle in the engine compartment. But kind of leary about it. would rather try the extra line's in the tank. If you think about sucking from a straw and having 3 line's come off the bottem of the bucket if you tilt the bucket so 1 or 2 straw extension's are out of the liquid you will still get the same amount of liquid as 3 lines would give you. The pump is going to only pump as much fluid as it can handle. being 1 line or 3 line's in the tank. Plus if you look in the hawk tank at that pick up line kind of suck's being there is just a little filter at the end of the gas line. The arctic cat pick up's are round and flat, heavy. This would work.
it work's for arctic cat to have multiple pick up's, I've climbed up mountain's on a low tank of fuel and the Cat never bogged out. That sound's like a Idea for a reserve bottle in the engine compartment. But kind of leary about it. would rather try the extra line's in the tank. If you think about sucking from a straw and having 3 line's come off the bottem of the bucket if you tilt the bucket so 1 or 2 straw extension's are out of the liquid you will still get the same amount of liquid as 3 lines would give you. The pump is going to only pump as much fluid as it can handle. being 1 line or 3 line's in the tank. Plus if you look in the hawk tank at that pick up line kind of suck's being there is just a little filter at the end of the gas line. The arctic cat pick up's are round and flat, heavy. This would work.
T
TLKDPROD
Well-known member
Hi Guys, couldn't give a try to the auxiliary fuel reservoir I installed, the parking lot at McBride was 100% on dirt and apparently there was no powder on top, just hardpack, so I said F+++, I'm not going. Maybe I'll find time to try it one evening this week... I started it in my garage though and air bubbles were flowing through the line (auxiliary reservoir being bleeded of course), and the motor seemed fine, of course it was just idleing, not at full throttle. I'll keep you aware of the results when I'll have some !
Jason
So would the smart valvels work for the problem. Instead of just using pick up line's, And actually use the smart valve's from AC. Or are you saying that the smart valves would grab the air before the fuel.????
So would the smart valvels work for the problem. Instead of just using pick up line's, And actually use the smart valve's from AC. Or are you saying that the smart valves would grab the air before the fuel.????
Keep thinking, there has to be a way
I think BlazinBya has a point about 3 lines and 1 or 2 would be picking up air as it is the path of least resistance - leading to problems.... I don't know what a smart valve is? Does it only pick up fuel and stops when air tries to get in. I could see that 3 pick-ups would work: 1 left front (stock location), 1 Right front, 1 rear tank. Now if the smart valves only pick up fuel and close when exposed to air then this would cover the tank well. A 3 way diverting adaptor could be put on the stock fuel line as it enters the tank having 1 stay at the stock location, 1 go to the rear and the other to the right front?
I was thinking more about a 1/2 liter resevoir up in front of the tank concept; however, I not sure how when air got into the resevoir, how it could escape? It would require a bleeder valve of some sort or a thin tubing being vented above the height of the fuel tank by the handlebars?
I have already replaced the rubber venting hose out of the fuel cap with a one way valve that only allows air into the tank so fuel doesn't escape when I flip the Hawk upside down...It used to be a race to right the Hawk before too much fuel escaped. Sometimes it used to run like a syphon if I didn't grab it fast enough...
I think BlazinBya has a point about 3 lines and 1 or 2 would be picking up air as it is the path of least resistance - leading to problems.... I don't know what a smart valve is? Does it only pick up fuel and stops when air tries to get in. I could see that 3 pick-ups would work: 1 left front (stock location), 1 Right front, 1 rear tank. Now if the smart valves only pick up fuel and close when exposed to air then this would cover the tank well. A 3 way diverting adaptor could be put on the stock fuel line as it enters the tank having 1 stay at the stock location, 1 go to the rear and the other to the right front?
I was thinking more about a 1/2 liter resevoir up in front of the tank concept; however, I not sure how when air got into the resevoir, how it could escape? It would require a bleeder valve of some sort or a thin tubing being vented above the height of the fuel tank by the handlebars?
I have already replaced the rubber venting hose out of the fuel cap with a one way valve that only allows air into the tank so fuel doesn't escape when I flip the Hawk upside down...It used to be a race to right the Hawk before too much fuel escaped. Sometimes it used to run like a syphon if I didn't grab it fast enough...
gas tank size
are you all using the 12gal. tank or some nines? on the 12 gal. there is the drop at the end of the heat exchanger so you could extend the gas line all the way to that point of the tank it seems to hold some fuel there on the decent. I relocated my fuel line on the tank to the flat spot behind the choke lever and run my pickup line to about mid tank on the 12 gal. seemed to work good all day but maybe never got low enough on the fuel to cause problems. Just my .02 cents
are you all using the 12gal. tank or some nines? on the 12 gal. there is the drop at the end of the heat exchanger so you could extend the gas line all the way to that point of the tank it seems to hold some fuel there on the decent. I relocated my fuel line on the tank to the flat spot behind the choke lever and run my pickup line to about mid tank on the 12 gal. seemed to work good all day but maybe never got low enough on the fuel to cause problems. Just my .02 cents
Walbro Fuel pickups
I found what Arctic Cat uses.
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html
I think a spread of 3 of these pickups in the tank would be the answer 2 either side up front and 1 at the back). The riding I get myself into is lots of steep ups etc so I think a full spread of pickups in the tank would be the answer. I am going to follow up to make sure these fuel pickups will fit into the SH tank. They say the are just under 3" diameter, 2" tall. It looks pretty easy to upgrade the SH stock fuel line with these pickups...
I found what Arctic Cat uses.
http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html
I think a spread of 3 of these pickups in the tank would be the answer 2 either side up front and 1 at the back). The riding I get myself into is lots of steep ups etc so I think a full spread of pickups in the tank would be the answer. I am going to follow up to make sure these fuel pickups will fit into the SH tank. They say the are just under 3" diameter, 2" tall. It looks pretty easy to upgrade the SH stock fuel line with these pickups...
Simple fix . Push your hose back in the tank . Every time you pull your tank off , you are slowly pulling the hose out . When you push it in , make sure it falls over that little shelf . That will help with the back splash .
I already tried that with little success. It only altered the position the Hawk was in when it bogged. The fuel line is pretty stiff so it doesn't kink but also doesn't allow the pickup end to move much with gravity to follow the fuel around the tank. The farther I push it in, The more to the back of the tank it goes which is good for going uphill, but when I'm level or braking, it becomes high and dry. Might be good in a pinch to get me out of a steep area though...The Hawk tank has no baffles which is a dumb design so the fuel sloshes all over. This has alway been a problem, I'm just determined to solve it this year...
Just looking through old post's
Found a good post to bring back. Don't forget to put in some Smart Pick Up Valve's in your gas tank. What do you mountain rider's think... Later Tom
Found a good post to bring back. Don't forget to put in some Smart Pick Up Valve's in your gas tank. What do you mountain rider's think... Later Tom
T
TLKDPROD
Well-known member
How about Fuel Tank Foam ?
Hi everyone, still wondering how we're gonna solve this problem then remember yesterday that people in MX are putting foam into their fuel tank to prevent slushing (www.evomx.com). Don't know if that would solve the problem... Do these little blocks of foam actually acts as "sponges" and kind of retains a certain quantity of gas - If this is the case it wouldn't help us at all. Will that be enough to hold some gas around the fuel pick up line if we climb a hill or if we accelerate... ? I already sent this company an email and asked them these questions and our problems with the 45L tanks on our Hawks.
I'll keep you aware about they say.
That being said, I think that this product would anyway be a damn great addition on any Snow-Hawk to reduce the unwanted fuel slushing, especially the ones with long 45L tanks.
Hi everyone, still wondering how we're gonna solve this problem then remember yesterday that people in MX are putting foam into their fuel tank to prevent slushing (www.evomx.com). Don't know if that would solve the problem... Do these little blocks of foam actually acts as "sponges" and kind of retains a certain quantity of gas - If this is the case it wouldn't help us at all. Will that be enough to hold some gas around the fuel pick up line if we climb a hill or if we accelerate... ? I already sent this company an email and asked them these questions and our problems with the 45L tanks on our Hawks.
I'll keep you aware about they say.
That being said, I think that this product would anyway be a damn great addition on any Snow-Hawk to reduce the unwanted fuel slushing, especially the ones with long 45L tanks.
I'm going to stick with the smart valve's, they work on mountain sled's, The Valve's don't know the difference between mountain tank and hawk tank.
smart valves
I talked to my cat dealer the other day about these and he said they can clog with oil. He was not sure if a 32-1 ratio will clog these valves or not. Anyone else have anymore info on these?
I talked to my cat dealer the other day about these and he said they can clog with oil. He was not sure if a 32-1 ratio will clog these valves or not. Anyone else have anymore info on these?
I think that they may be the same things but ski-doo uses a dual pickup on the sdi sleds - '04/'05 I think I worked on with them. Might be worth checking out.
Hi guys, not yet a SnowHawk rider, but toying with the idea(please feel free to PM me and convince me, I am about a 50/50 split mountain/big air rider). I did however used to be an Arctic Cat mechanic and know of plenty of guys running A/C mountain sleds on pre-mix and haven't heard of the smart valves clogging. We did encounter a couple of rare failing ones, but the sled still runs, and they are not too expensive.
Similar threads
