MPI 850 Turbo: First Ride Impressions

[christopher]

Christopher... do you have any reluctance to using 100LL? (If so, why?)

100LL is cheap in comparison to VP100.... and, I hear, very much 'readily available' in your area.

MON of 100LL is about 104
MON of VP110 is 106
MON of 'Pump 91" 87-89

The resultant mix at approx 20-25%, in terms of Octane, will be VERY close between the VP110 and the 100LL... and, IMO, a better solution that depending on "octane boosters"
.

No reason NOT to use Aviation Fuel other than EASE OF PURCHASE.
I can buy a 5 gallon sealed can of VP 110 very easily. But it is a bit of a hastle to take my empty fuel cans out to the Airport and have them dispense 5 whole gallons for me. Yes its cheaper, but my time has a real value as well.

I pay for convenience.

 

[JJ_0909]

Octane is Octane, it doesn't matter where you get it as long as you have enough to eliminate detonation.

The MPI kit is the first kit I have ever used that incorporates EBC. This really simplifies the guess work in regard to octane requirements from elevation to elevation. It would be nice to see other kit manufacturers incorporate this as well.

Boondocker does too.

Silber is considering it...

 

[snow4shover]

Here is the currently clutching that i'm running:
<b><u>Drive Clutch:</b></u>
Straightline Adjustable Ramps - Magnets in all positions
Stock primary spring - already had to replace once.
Clicker 3 or 4 depend on snow conditions

<b><u>Driven Clutch:</b></u>
Stock Spring and Helix

Going to be testing some other clutching over the next couple of weeks. Took to long to get other helixs and springs. I will check you guys posted.

As far as the quality of fuel, I pretty much ride at 7500 ft + and have been running straight pump NON ethanol with klotz octane boost. I currently have 480 miles on the kit with zero DET issues.

I was originally running the 968 ramp with all stock components which worked good but i'm trying to improve that.

 

[mountainhorse]

No reason NOT to use Aviation Fuel other than EASE OF PURCHASE.
I can buy a 5 gallon sealed can of VP 110 very easily. But it is a bit of a hastle to take my empty fuel cans out to the Airport and have them dispense 5 whole gallons for me. Yes its cheaper, but my time has a real value as well.

I pay for convenience.

Ask around... You may find it is easier than you think.

But... The VP100 is my favorite of all of the 110 fuels... I feel it has the best throttle response compared to Sunoco Std110 and others.

At the airport I pull up to the pump... or to the gate at the airport depending on the time of day... get the cans out of the back of my truck ... put in my Visa card... pump the fuel... leave...

I usually do 20 gallons at a time... but sometimes have 60 gallons worth (good ole school 316 Stainless 6 gal jerry cans )

I use it in ALL of my mowers, chainsaws, blowers, weed wackers.... winter storage for all of my clients boats (actually, usually the last full tank of the season)... It goes into my sleds (full tank on for storage after draining all the pump fuel, even the non-eth stuff)

I was told it was the same at Rexburg-Madison.

http://rexburgmadisonairport.org/
Fuel 100 low lead and Jet A is available at a self service terminal.

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[christopher]

Ask around... You may find it is easier than you think.

At the airport I pull up to the pump... or to the gate at the airport depending on the time of day... get the cans out of the back of my truck ... put in my Visa card... pump the fuel... leave...

I was told it was the same at Rexburg-Madison.
.

If they have a SELF SERVICE station that would change EVERYTHING.
I will make a call and find out.
But I was under the impression is was Fuel Truck delivery only.

 

[mountainhorse]

Christopher... I've only been told that about Rexburg-Madison...but it jibes with their official website....Please let us know what you find out !

Sunoco/VP110 in 5's costs me $63 locally.

At 2 gallons per tank ... a fiver is used up in about 2.5 tanks on a G4.

5 of 100LL locally $16.50 yesterday for me.





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[mountainhorse]

BTW... always mix outside of the tank in another can... so you can be sure of your mix ratio... too much octane will make your bottom end throttle a bitt mooshy and take away from top end power too.



.

 

[christopher]

BTW... always mix outside of the tank in another can... so you can be sure of your mix ratio... too much octane will make your bottom end throttle a bitt mooshy and take away from top end power too.
.

If at a pump, simply dispense 2 gallons into each of your 5 gallon containers.
Then pump in the rest at 91 Ethanol Free and you are ROCK SOLID.

 

[christopher]

Just spoke to MPI.

Will have some HARD clutching information and Low Elevation information for everyone on the next day or so.

 

[fredw]

Been running 100 percent av gas last few years from 2500 to 10000' don't know if I ever felt a big that bad, maybe it's the kit

No experience or a clue on the 850 but the 800 Etec did not like too high of octane. I started running straight 110 then went to 103 and ended up with straight 96 on my BoonDocker turbos. You can have too much octane. It made the lag much worse...

 

[christopher]

Been running 100 percent av gas last few years from 2500 to 10000' don't know if I ever felt a big that bad, maybe it's the kit

Currious.
The only real drawback I know to running pure high octane is that it tends to burn out your AFR Sensor.

Is your's still running?

 

[turboless terry]

Over octane means less power.

 

[fredw]

Went threw many a/f sensors, but guys running straight pump also go threw sensors,,..

We think it's the position of the sensor, if you roll the sled or get snow to fall down into your exhaust and onto the sensor, it damages the sensor and takes it out real quick, lost a sensor in one day after that

 

[christopher]

Went threw many a/f sensors, but guys running straight pump also go threw sensors,,..

We think it's the position of the sensor, if you roll the sled or get snow to fall down into your exhaust and onto the sensor, it damages the sensor and takes it out real quick, lost a sensor in one day after that

Had not heard this before..
Hmmmm

 

[mountainhorse]

Currious.
The only real drawback I know to running pure high octane is that it tends to burn out your AFR Sensor.
Is your's still running?

Christopher, here is some info from a older thread on AV Gas you may find helpful.

Give er a read lots of good info.




https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220800&highlight=gas+turbo+stroke:

Octane Requirements -
Fuel Needs
The required octane is one that provides a controlled burn throughout the power cycle of the engine. As noted above octane, is not the only factor within the fuel that controls the burn and there are many factors within the engine that affect the burn rate which then affect the amount of octane or burn control required. These factors include, but may not be limited to, engine compression, camshaft timing, ignition timing, combustion chamber design, spark plug location, valve adjustment, engine operating temperature, fuel mixture, and weather. Extremely high octane is not best for performance.

A higher octane slows the burn rate and conversely a lower octane quickens the burn rate. You desire a burn rate that will match the needs and characteristics of your engine so that you may produce the maximum amount of power, but at the same time retain reliability. It is better to error to the higher side of the octane instead of the lower.

Normally a margin of safety is desired just in case the air gets really dense or the engine temperature climbs a little high to prevent detonation in these instances

Can you "Over-Octane"an engine? If so, what happens?

Yes you can over octane an engine.

Generally you will get sluggish throttle response. Also you may get fouled plugs and deposits in the exhaust ports and headers.

When an engine is trying to burn a fuel that has too much octane, the burn rate is incorrect and all of the fuel won't be used up. This excess usually gets left as a deposit or gets pushed out the exhaust.

It is important to match your engine's needs with the correct fuel.

At lower boost levels...you would want to run a mix of 100LL (remember this is about 104 MON) and Pump Premium.

At 10 lbs of boost...Running straight race 110, I know that many people are realizing DECREASED performance compared to mix... That would be realized in top power as well as throttle "character"

In general, with 100LL having ONLY 2 MON points less octane than "110" race gas... the boost levels would only be slightly less for the AV gas... mixed or straight.

...

.

 

[mountainhorse]

Here is a decent write up on O2 sensors (AKA "Lambda Sensor") failure modes.

The Lambda sensor in the AFR gauge can be fouled by oil (especially zinc deposits) , in the case of race fuel, TetraEthyl-Lead, or vibration, or rapid chilling of the sensor, or overly rich operation, ... etc... All things that happen in 2 stroke sled engine in normal running... Not because of the octane of the fuel.


http://www.nzefi.com/bosch-lsu-wide...l-often-aftermarket-performance-applications/

http://wbo2.com/lsu/LsuInstal.pdf






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[aj1180]

Straight 110 also makes it hard to start at altitude and stock compression. I've blended at 10 lbs of boost. 110 and 92 60/40 and it worked fine with no det. No matter what you ride, you need to find the right blend that has as low of octane as possible but doesn't det. That will give you the best performance. And yes too much octane will make it sluggish and increase turbo lag

 

[christopher]

Went to the Jackson Hole Hillclimbs this weekend.
Spent some time with MPI and the Ski-Doo racers that are running the MPI Turbo.

Came home with a set of dialed in weights.

Waiting on MPI to write up an official clutch recommendation statement to share with everyone.

Will have the sled back on the mountain this weekend properly clutched.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

Went to the Jackson Hole Hillclimbs this weekend.
Spent some time with MPI and the Ski-Doo racers that are running the MPI Turbo.

Came home with a set of dialed in weights.

Waiting on MPI to write up an official clutch recommendation statement to share with everyone.

Will have the sled back on the mountain this weekend properly clutched.

Did you grab some ZRP weights or the 968's from shover? Curious what you end up liking/disliking

Running 154 3" at 5psi. fully stock clutching except the ZRP weights loaded to 98g mostly on the tip. RPM is 8k steadily and upshift patterns are good from a dead stop but punch it at speed and VERY slow upshift. Going to try going to a different secondary spring next and see if we cant make it backshift a little better.

 

[christopher]

Did you grab some ZRP weights or the 968's from shover? Curious what you end up liking/disliking

Running 154 3" at 5psi. fully stock clutching except the ZRP weights loaded to 98g mostly on the tip. RPM is 8k steadily and upshift patterns are good from a dead stop but punch it at speed and VERY slow upshift. Going to try going to a different secondary spring next and see if we cant make it backshift a little better.

Would love to tell you, but I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW.
They smiled at me and put them in my hand and said go home and install these, set your clickers to 4 and let us know what you think.

I hope to have the hard numbers from MPI today on just what they put in my hands.