MOTOTRAX BRAKE CALIPER

[HELICO]

Actually we are working on a plate that extends from the swingarm brace, the 1/8" peice of ss inside the tunnel to the brake caliper, instead of the pins threading is like the OEM design from wilwood we are going to machine our own pins out of stainless and tig weld them to the plate, that way the pins are just resting in the holes in the side panel and get their strength from the inner plate.

Fortunately the design has very little side force or leverage on the pins as the caliper is mounted on both sides of the panel. Therefore the main concern is keeping the pins in place.

All the support for that caliper is on those two 1/8 '' treads going through the panel. It needs support on the outboard side of those pins.
I do note that since Frozen Moto( 7 yrs) you have never said you made a mistake.
This caliper is one of them. Wilwood pins and design are not at fault.
The bushings breaking in the rear strut is not the temperatures fault.
The idler wheel placement is not the track manufactures fault (the track was built to your specs)

The fit kits that did not fit
Ski saddle that bends
The ski is not your fault but you should have caught it.
Everyone screws up but just man up and admit your mistakes people will accept that. Fix the problems properly. So far most of your quick fixes(that I have dealt with) are not going to last.

 

[Moto4Life]

All the support for that caliper is on those two 1/8 '' treads going through the panel. It needs support on the outboard side of those pins.
I do note that since Frozen Moto( 7 yrs) you have never said you made a mistake.
This caliper is one of them. Wilwood pins and design are not at fault.
The bushings breaking in the rear strut is not the temperatures fault.
The idler wheel placement is not the track manufactures fault (the track was built to your specs)

The fit kits that did not fit
Ski saddle that bends
The ski is not your fault but you should have caught it.
Everyone screws up but just man up and admit your mistakes people will accept that. Fix the problems properly. So far most of your quick fixes(that I have dealt with) are not going to last.

If all you are looking for is fault than blame me for all of those things, you are correct this entire kit is my design and it is not perfect and I designed those parts.

I actually admit that all of those parts could be better, the question lies in how to handle it. I realize all consumers would love me to upgrade their kit free of charge to the latest and greatest as we make these better and better. The question is where is the line?

If I could afford to give everyone free stuff I would, unfortunately snowbike margins are not that great and I don't have a multimillion dollar company throwing cash my way, so I do what I can.

I have made my share a mistakes, Frozen Moto was a big one. But I did learn some valuable lessons. MotoTrax was far from a mistake, but I am still learning a lot.

I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish but I do know that you know nothing about me nor the sacrifices that I have made in the never ending effort to make a better snowbike.

Regardless of what you say we will continue to do our best and make great snow bikes.

 

[HELICO]

If all you are looking for is fault than blame me for all of those things, you are correct this entire kit is my design and it is not perfect and I designed those parts.

I actually admit that all of those parts could be better, the question lies in how to handle it. I realize all consumers would love me to upgrade their kit free of charge to the latest and greatest as we make these better and better. The question is where is the line?

If I could afford to give everyone free stuff I would, unfortunately snowbike margins are not that great and I don't have a multimillion dollar company throwing cash my way, so I do what I can.

I have made my share a mistakes, Frozen Moto was a big one. But I did learn some valuable lessons. MotoTrax was far from a mistake, but I am still learning a lot.

I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish but I do know that you know nothing about me nor the sacrifices that I have made in the never ending effort to make a better snowbike.

Regardless of what you say we will continue to do our best and make great snow bikes.

So what you are saying is, you used people that bought your 2017 tracks, for your cash flow and R&D.
The reward they get is to give you more money for parts to make the tracks function as you MARKETED them

 

[w74bronco]

If all you are looking for is fault than blame me for all of those things, you are correct this entire kit is my design and it is not perfect and I designed those parts.

I actually admit that all of those parts could be better, the question lies in how to handle it. I realize all consumers would love me to upgrade their kit free of charge to the latest and greatest as we make these better and better. The question is where is the line?

If I could afford to give everyone free stuff I would, unfortunately snowbike margins are not that great and I don't have a multimillion dollar company throwing cash my way, so I do what I can.

I have made my share a mistakes, Frozen Moto was a big one. But I did learn some valuable lessons. MotoTrax was far from a mistake, but I am still learning a lot.

I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish but I do know that you know nothing about me nor the sacrifices that I have made in the never ending effort to make a better snowbike.

Regardless of what you say we will continue to do our best and make great snow bikes.

Offering your customers revised components to fix problems that occur under regular riding conditions is not giving them "the latest and greatest". None of these "improvements" are enhancing the handling characteristics of the MT, they are correcting missteps in design and production.

When people update their Timbersleds with newer components, it's because of advances in riding technologies and the new components improve the riding characteristics. The parts people are asking for on their MT's are to remedy problems that will render their kits useless. You break the upper idler wheels 20 miles into the backcountry, good luck. Improving a flaw like that isn't the latest and greatest. Riding within sight of my truck is about all the confidence in my kit I have currently. Maybe if there was a mount for teli-skis, I'd feel comfortable getting out there to explore.

 

[Moto4Life]

Offering your customers revised components to fix problems that occur under regular riding conditions is not giving them "the latest and greatest". None of these "improvements" are enhancing the handling characteristics of the MT, they are correcting missteps in design and production.

When people update their Timbersleds with newer components, it's because of advances in riding technologies and the new components improve the riding characteristics. The parts people are asking for on their MT's are to remedy problems that will render their kits useless. You break the upper idler wheels 20 miles into the backcountry, good luck. Improving a flaw like that isn't the latest and greatest. Riding within sight of my truck is about all the confidence in my kit I have currently. Maybe if there was a mount for teli-skis, I'd feel comfortable getting out there to explore.

If you are really having that many issues with you kit you should give us a call, I'm sure something is not right and needs attention.

We have 15 shop/demo bikes that all have between 15 and 35 engine hours on them now and we have NEVER broken one upper idler shaft, of course I am not saying it does not happen, I think we are up to 10 or something customers that have broken one and nearly each of our racers has broken one. But when you have 300+ kits out and those are the odds, and with that being said we still are covering them under warranty.


What exactly do you want fixed? I have 32 hours on my kit, which was the second unit that came off the production floor this season and I have broken two parts.


Rear Slider, cutting up a side hill, about hour 20 +-
Rear arm, about hour 30 +-, actually not broke but it is bent after landing almost vertical off a uphill jump the other day


Enhancements over a production unit:
I drilled out the grab bar bolts and installed 1/4" steel rivets in place

 

[Moto4Life]

So what you are saying is, you used people that bought your 2017 tracks, for your cash flow and R&D.
The reward they get is to give you more money for parts to make the tracks function as you MARKETED them

No that is what you are saying.

Im saying what I said in the above post.

 

[HELICO]

If you are really having that many issues with you kit you should give us a call, I'm sure something is not right and needs attention.

We have 15 shop/demo bikes that all have between 15 and 35 engine hours on them now and we have NEVER broken one upper idler shaft, of course I am not saying it does not happen, I think we are up to 10 or something customers that have broken one and nearly each of our racers has broken one. But when you have 300+ kits out and those are the odds, and with that being said we still are covering them under warranty.


What exactly do you want fixed? I have 32 hours on my kit, which was the second unit that came off the production floor this season and I have broken two parts.


Rear Slider, cutting up a side hill, about hour 20 +-
Rear arm, about hour 30 +-, actually not broke but it is bent after landing almost vertical off a uphill jump the other day


Enhancements over a production unit:
I drilled out the grab bar bolts and installed 1/4" steel rivets in place

Total DECEPTION Randy
Your track was far from a production unit.
Like you said before I came to your shop almost once a week , I watched the show.

 

[w74bronco]

If you are really having that many issues with you kit you should give us a call, I'm sure something is not right and needs attention.

We have 15 shop/demo bikes that all have between 15 and 35 engine hours on them now and we have NEVER broken one upper idler shaft, of course I am not saying it does not happen, I think we are up to 10 or something customers that have broken one and nearly each of our racers has broken one. But when you have 300+ kits out and those are the odds, and with that being said we still are covering them under warranty.


What exactly do you want fixed? I have 32 hours on my kit, which was the second unit that came off the production floor this season and I have broken two parts.


Rear Slider, cutting up a side hill, about hour 20 +-
Rear arm, about hour 30 +-, actually not broke but it is bent after landing almost vertical off a uphill jump the other day


Enhancements over a production unit:
I drilled out the grab bar bolts and installed 1/4" steel rivets in place

I've talked to you guys, and gotten replacement parts under warranty.

You're missing the point though. Warranty support is great for fixing the track....once I figure out how to get it back to the truck when I'm 20 miles out and three valleys over from any trail a sled with a sleigh can access. We're not talking about stuff breaking at the local moto-cross track. A simple sheared bolt rendering the bike immobile turns into a VERY serious situation when it's 2pm, 20 degrees out and a 10 mile walk in knee deep snow back to the truck.

My kit is a blast to ride, a ton of fun. It takes brass balls on hard pack trails, but still fun riding. I want the confidence to really get out there though. My kit required a Macguyver fix to limp back to the truck at the 4 hour mark of basic trail riding. Luckily it broke on the trail, so I had simple flat trails to ride out. If I was two valleys over, and had to sidehill at all, it would have been real problems.

I would happily sacrifice some level of ride quality for reliability.

 

[Moto4Life]

I've talked to you guys, and gotten replacement parts under warranty.

You're missing the point though. Warranty support is great for fixing the track....once I figure out how to get it back to the truck when I'm 20 miles out and three valleys over from any trail a sled with a sleigh can access. We're not talking about stuff breaking at the local moto-cross track. A simple sheared bolt rendering the bike immobile turns into a VERY serious situation when it's 2pm, 20 degrees out and a 10 mile walk in knee deep snow back to the truck.

My kit is a blast to ride, a ton of fun. It takes brass balls on hard pack trails, but still fun riding. I want the confidence to really get out there though. My kit required a Macguyver fix to limp back to the truck at the 4 hour mark of basic trail riding. Luckily it broke on the trail, so I had simple flat trails to ride out. If I was two valleys over, and had to sidehill at all, it would have been real problems.

I would happily sacrifice some level of ride quality for reliability.

You had the idler shaft break right? If so that is pretty uncommon in general. For me when I go into the backcountry, more than 15 miles out, I always take food, survival gear, and tools as well as any spare parts I think I might need. So far this season the parts means a variety of bolts for the kit and bike, and a rear slider. I have never broken a idler shaft nor has anyone in the group so I have never brought one. We usually go out every weekend one day.

I agree that I would rather just ride and not focus on anything breaking or wearing out and causing issues. That why everything I have been working on the last two years is to make the kit stronger and more wear resistant. Ultimately the goal would be to ride close to an entire season without any real maintenance needed.

In all honestly that is the downfall of being a moto rider. When I first started building kits maintenance, even daily did not bother me or my group of riders at all. Its completely common to ride 2 engine hours in a day and spend 2 hours working on and cleaning your bike. With track kits I am finding most people don't want to do that level of work.


Also your kit should work great on the trail. I can easily ride wide open on nearly any groomed or icy trail in 5th gear. Last week I took my 5 y/o daughter out for about a 50 mile ride and over 2/3rds of it was on crappy icy snow and trails and we were doing 40 to 50 mph down the trail with no issue. I feel like something must either be off or maybe riding posture. I am a midpack C motocrosser to so I not super fast either.

 

[KTMDirtFace]

Pro Caliber of bend told me they broke the idler shaft on their 501 Demo bike with the 129 mountain kit a couple weeks ago. He didn't tell me how.

Also ? I have ridden my snowmobile and dirt bikes for years.. the only maintenance is oil changes for the most part.

In Fact, other than just murdering my clutch in a 25 hour at starvation ridge mudder. I havn't had to do anything to my KTM 500. Nor my Ski Doo other that oil and grease. ( Both 2014's )

What little I rode the demo bike on the trail, it felt fine as long as it was on an edge..which my buddy with a timbersled told me to just lean it over under me and stay on an edge.. no problems then for me.

 

[HELICO]

You had the idler shaft break right? If so that is pretty uncommon in general. For me when I go into the backcountry, more than 15 miles out, I always take food, survival gear, and tools as well as any spare parts I think I might need. So far this season the parts means a variety of bolts for the kit and bike, and a rear slider. I have never broken a idler shaft nor has anyone in the group so I have never brought one. We usually go out every weekend one day.

I agree that I would rather just ride and not focus on anything breaking or wearing out and causing issues. That why everything I have been working on the last two years is to make the kit stronger and more wear resistant. Ultimately the goal would be to ride close to an entire season without any real maintenance needed.

In all honestly that is the downfall of being a moto rider. When I first started building kits maintenance, even daily did not bother me or my group of riders at all. Its completely common to ride 2 engine hours in a day and spend 2 hours working on and cleaning your bike. With track kits I am finding most people don't want to do that level of work.


Also your kit should work great on the trail. I can easily ride wide open on nearly any groomed or icy trail in 5th gear. Last week I took my 5 y/o daughter out for about a 50 mile ride and over 2/3rds of it was on crappy icy snow and trails and we were doing 40 to 50 mph down the trail with no issue. I feel like something must either be off or maybe riding posture. I am a midpack C motocrosser to so I not super fast either.

So 2 hrs riding = 2 hrs maintenance = 50%
Weekend = 2 days
1 day riding=1 day fixing =50%
Since 2011 to 2016 riding Timbersleds I have never spent that much time doing maintenance
on them. If fact it was about 95% of the time I was riding.