More Obama

[ruffryder]

Since we can never have enough Obama.... ... thought this article would be interesting. Granted, it is from the NY Times, but it has some pretty good points and discussions about different economic philosophies... Yah, I figure would would peak everyones enthusiasm

Obama, the economy, and you..


Note that the article does talk about McCains methodology just enough to dislike it, but there isn't much info on McCains plan anyways, so all comparisons shouldn't be taken very highly... Anywho, hope you enjoy it, I am sure you will let me know if you don't.

Another note, anyone have anything similar but with McCain? Would be interesting to compare the two..

 

[XC700116]

Well, I think that a good portion of it makes sense while some of it does not. In one breath he admits that less regulation and taxes stimulates the economy and in another he feels that taxes need to be raised and more regulations put in place on top earners. Yes I know how he is justifying it in the article by using it to pay for all his programs that he thinks will create jobs, but keep in mind that one of the major factors that has been sending companies oversees is increased regulation, taxes, and costs.

I think that if you really wanted to make a major impact you lower taxes on the lower income ranges that he talks about, keep the current corporate tax rates, reduce spending on frivilous persuits of our government, increase import tarriffs, open up drilling with resonable expectations for environmental impact, close tax loopholes that are abused (like all these reduce your tax debt deals you hear about on informercials). Along with the loopholes simplify the tax code to a more flat tax system, and for god's sake quit winning about unfairness and trying to redistribute wealth via the tax codes and "programs" because for one thing the govt winds up wasting most of it in beureucracy and two its a Marxist ideal.

 

[Aug]

I will have you know I'm trying to contact Mr. Obama in hopes of starting a new movment. If it all works out this will help him alot I call it "nigga's for pres". The only trouble is he hasn't responded to my letters.

 

[Wade]

Interesting article, but long winded. Lots of it sounds good, he like markets, that's good. But, he plainly states the income tax, and payroll taxes, will be used as a way to transfer (redistribute) wealth. He's not talking about lowering taxes, he's talking about raising tax based welfare. Purporting it as reduction in the squeeze of the middle class. But, it seems that the "nearly non-working", with kids, will benefit the most. Don't mess with the free market, just tax the heck out of the profits. Wow, makes me want to take a chance and invest. Maybe I'll just sit on my money until someone else comes to power. A CD is looking pretty good now.

So, does this policy really help the economy, or is it just handing the irresponsible cash to burn?

Sounds like he want Reagan markets, and Euro welfare, all in one.

Aug, why do you have to say such a thing? Show some class brother.

 

[ruffryder]

But, he plainly states the income tax, and payroll taxes, will be used as a way to transfer (redistribute) wealth. He's not talking about lowering taxes, he's talking about raising tax based welfare.

I was thinking he meant that it would not be just handed over to the poor... It would be put into the infrastructure....... of America.

 

[Burndown1]

I was thinking he meant that it would not be just handed over to the poor... It would be put into the infrastructure....... of America.

I was thinking he meant. Chit in one hand and wish with the other. Perfect example that you don't know what you are talking about. Remember Liberalism is a mental disorder. They have drugs to help you.

 

[milehighassassin]

Long read, I will have to finish it up later before I can truely comment.

 

[Wade]

I was thinking he meant that it would not be just handed over to the poor... It would be put into the infrastructure....... of America.

I think you need to read it again. He states that he would like to invest in infrastructure. Bridges, windmills, alternative energy, ect.... This, I don't have a problem with. That's what governments do.

Read the part where he want to turn the tax system into, tax based welfare.

For the bottom 80 percent of the population — those households making $118,000 or less — McCain’s various tax cuts would mean a net savings of about $200 a year on average. Obama’s proposals would bring $900 a year in savings. So for most people, Obama is the tax cutter in this campaign.

Economically, he is trying to use the tax code to spread the bounty from the market-based American economy to a far wider group of families.

tax based welfare

Obama’s second-most-expensive proposal, after his health-care plan, is the equivalent of a $500 cut in the payroll tax for most workers. (It is actually a credit that is applied toward income taxes based on payroll taxes paid.) In a speech this month in Florida, he proposed that the cut take effect immediately, in the form of a rebate, to stimulate the economy. For most workers, it would be the first significant cut in the payroll tax in decades, if not ever.

Another stimulus check, mostly for people that didn't pay "any" (almost none) taxes. That top 20 percent will be excluded.

As a result, a family with an income-tax bill of $3,000 wouldn’t merely have that bill eliminated; it would also receive a $1,000 check. Increasingly, the income-tax system becomes a way to transfer money to poor families.

Is that plain enough?

He said it made him think of Warren Buffett, an Obama supporter, who, if anything, might argue that he wasn’t going far enough to change the tax code. “If you talk to Warren, he’ll tell you his preference is not to meddle in the economy at all — let the market work, however way it’s going to work, and then just tax the heck out of people at the end and just redistribute it,” Obama said.

Buffet must really hate his money. Or just doesn't want anyone else to attain his position.

Obama’s agenda starts not with raising taxes to reduce the deficit, as Clinton’s ended up doing, but with changing the tax code so that families making more than $250,000 a year pay more taxes and nearly everyone else pays less. That would begin to address inequality. Then there would be Reich-like investments in alternative energy, physical infrastructure and such, meant both to create middle-class jobs and to address long-term problems like global warming.

Global Warming's ugly head appears.

 

[milehighassassin]

Buffet has been VERY outspoken in saying that more taxes for the rich would not be a bad thing. He understand that those that are in the elite groups can afford the additional tax and that it would be better for the economy/country. The extremely rich can actually make money when the lower classes get a tax break because that means they have more money to spend.

 

[Wade]

Buffet has been VERY outspoken in saying that more taxes for the rich would not be a bad thing. He understand that those that are in the elite groups can afford the additional tax and that it would be better for the economy/country. The extremely rich can actually make money when the lower classes get a tax break because that means they have more money to spend.

Tax break, or tax based welfare?
And no, when the rich get hit by higher taxes, they lobby congress for loopholes and tax shelters, so the Upper Middleclass get hit the hardest.

 

[Meatman]

Buffet has been VERY outspoken in saying that more taxes for the rich would not be a bad thing. He understand that those that are in the elite groups can afford the additional tax and that it would be better for the economy/country. The extremely rich can actually make money when the lower classes get a tax break because that means they have more money to spend.

yes...if you work your azz off to better yourself you should get taxed and given more money to the poor....

i think buffet needs to lay off the crack pipe

what do you mean he 'understands' this concept...this thinking should be thrown out the window period!

I plan on making 100g a year...I dont want to pay for some punk that refuses to better himself. makes no sense whatsoever

 

[ruffryder]

yes...if you work your azz off to better yourself you should get taxed and given more money to the poor....

i think buffet needs to lay off the crack pipe

what do you mean he 'understands' this concept...this thinking should be thrown out the window period!

I plan on making 100g a year...I dont want to pay for some punk that refuses to better himself. makes no sense whatsoever

Funny, I would think people should listen to a man talk about money, especially when he has crap loads of it..... Your argument is all emotion........ I would say that if you think you know more about money and financial systems then Mr. Buffet, I would expect you to be pretty darn well off... like a billionaire....

100g a year? Why are you complaining, you are the one that will get the tax breaks? That is not considered rich by a large margin....

 

[ruffryder]

I think we have a different definition of welfare ...

Some people think that the money generated by increasing taxes on the rich will go as some sort of unemployment checks or something........ just handed out.... and given away. I have seen this over and over again on here...

Wade,

How is a cut in payroll taxes only for those that didn't pay hardly any taxes? I hope you include yourself in that group.... because you would benefit from this, along with everyone else that has a job..... Actually you would only benefit if you had a job....

Buffet must really hate his money. Or just doesn't want anyone else to attain his position.

Maybe he is smart enough to see how systems work and find the solution that would easily meet the needs... Seems you would rather discredit Buffet himself and his motives, then what he said....... Poor form!


Another for wade,

I think we believe the same thing about global warming... hocus pocus and all that. Does this paragraph sound better the way I worded it? I don't agree with global warming, but I do agree that the changes that will come out of the global warming hysteria are some that have been needed for quite a while. If global warming is the ugly retarded stepchild that gets us there, I guess I can live with that.....

Then there would be Reich-like investments in alternative energy, physical infrastructure and such, meant both to create middle-class jobs and to address long term pollution and energy security issues.

 

[milehighassassin]

Buffet know's that by giving the extremely poor to the middle class a tax break it will give them more money to SPEND; spend where? Spend into the economy in which you are heavily invested. All that money he lost by paying more taxes, he will earn back probably 10 times+.

 

[redlineguy]

Interesting article, but long winded. Lots of it sounds good, he like markets, that's good. But, he plainly states the income tax, and payroll taxes, will be used as a way to transfer (redistribute) wealth. He's not talking about lowering taxes, he's talking about raising tax based welfare. Purporting it as reduction in the squeeze of the middle class. But, it seems that the "nearly non-working", with kids, will benefit the most. Don't mess with the free market, just tax the heck out of the profits. Wow, makes me want to take a chance and invest. Maybe I'll just sit on my money until someone else comes to power. A CD is looking pretty good now.

So, does this policy really help the economy, or is it just handing the irresponsible cash to burn?

Sounds like he want Reagan markets, and Euro welfare, all in one.

Aug, why do you have to say such a thing? Show some class brother.

becarful, He also wants to TAX cap gain's more F THAT!!!













.

 

[redlineguy]

Buffet know's that by giving the extremely poor to the middle class a tax break it will give them more money to SPEND; spend where? Spend into the economy in which you are heavily invested. All that money he lost by paying more taxes, he will earn back probably 10 times+.

How do you give a person a Tax break when they don't pay any?? ???????????OH ya its called Welfare!!!










.

 

[ruffryder]

How do you give a person a Tax break when they don't pay any?? ???????????OH ya its called Welfare!!!

No, it is called, they don't get one.....

 

[ericbigbore]

I will have you know I'm trying to contact Mr. Obama in hopes of starting a new movment. If it all works out this will help him alot I call it "nigga's for pres". The only trouble is he hasn't responded to my letters.

Inbreader!

 

[AzCats]

Right wing extremists have occupied the White House for 8 years. They have controlled Congress for 8 years. McSame hugs Bunny Nuts and proclaims we need to fix Washington.

 

[Wade]

I think we have a different definition of welfare ...

Yes my definition is a word of shame.

Some people think that the money generated by increasing taxes on the rich will go as some sort of unemployment checks or something........ just handed out.... and given away. I have seen this over and over again on here...

No, an unemployment check is referred to properly as unemployment insurance. Workers pay the insurance, laid off workers are partially covered. There's nothing wrong with that. As for handouts, if you pay $3000 in tax, and get a check for $5,000, where did the money magically come from then? Sounds like a hand out to me. Prove me wrong!

How is a cut in payroll taxes only for those that didn't pay hardly any taxes? I hope you include yourself in that group.... because you would benefit from this, along with everyone else that has a job..... Actually you would only benefit if you had a job....

Ah, but to declare a job, you mearly have to pick up one aluminum can, walk down to the recycler, and get $0.04 for it, and declare income on your income tax form. This is kinda long and deep, he is saying people that pay the most won't be getting the same percentage of money back, they are floating the poor.

Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former head of the Congressional Budget Office who has been advising McCain since the primaries, made a more specific version of this same point to me. Since Social Security was founded, its benefits have been based on the amount of payroll taxes that an individual worker paid over his or her lifetime. The system is progressive, in that the rich contribute more than the poor and do not get out everything they put in. But Obama would make it vastly more progressive. Currently, only income up to $102,000 is subject to the tax. After a decade, he would leave income between $102,000 and $250,000 untaxed, but would begin taxing income above that. The people paying this new tax probably would not get any additional retirement benefits in return. “As a political matter,” Holtz-Eakin argued, “it reveals a lack of judgment.” A program with almost unrivaled political support, he added, could turn into yet another government transfer program.

Here he says he will give them money. How much plainer does it need to be.

Obama’s second-most-expensive proposal, after his health-care plan, is the equivalent of a $500 cut in the payroll tax for most workers. (It is actually a credit that is applied toward income taxes based on payroll taxes paid.) In a speech this month in Florida, he proposed that the cut take effect immediately, in the form of a rebate, to stimulate the economy. For most workers, it would be the first significant cut in the payroll tax in decades, if not ever.

When you see this, do you really think people making over $150K will ever see any? Do you really think people will NOT get a check if they only paid $1 in? How can we read the same sentences, and see something so different? I only base this off history. See the last rebate/stimulus check for an example.

BTW, me and my wife both work, no kids, somehow we owe everyone else something. And, don't hand me the stupid line about their kids doing something for me one day..... I'll more than likely be paying for their kids to be housed in Jail, than good tax paying citizens.

Maybe he is smart enough to see how systems work and find the solution that would easily meet the needs... Seems you would rather discredit Buffet himself and his motives, then what he said....... Poor form!

Buffet is giving his money away. He's near the end of his life, and he has become emotional. (thank you Mrs. Gates) It's his money, he can do whatever he wants to with it. I think Buffet's idea of "rich people" is somewhat grander than anyone here can relate to.

If global warming is the ugly retarded stepchild that gets us there, I guess I can live with that.....

What kind of third world country shall we become, that you envision we need to be?