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Mechanical Engineering Final Project

Phizzer

Well-known member
Premium Member
I will be graduating in May of 2015 and am currently doing research for a final project in the Mechanical Engineering department at my University. This project focus's on the 3 stages of product development, (eg. Research Design, Construction, Testing). We have an amazing facility that allows us access to some of the equipment major manufacture's would only have access too, which will will result in all in house machining.

The main reason I am bringing it up to you all, is we have recently acquired an 2 stroke Snowmobile Engine dyno at our facility. Its capable of 2 cylinder motors, up to I believe 1500cc.

I'm not positive exactly what I want to do yet, which is why I wanted to pick your brains and see what you guys think. I have a full 12 months to finish, which makes room for plenty of time to design, build, and test.

I've contemplated designing a 2 stroke engine completely from scratch, machine cases, cranks, pistons, etc. in our machine shop, and perform HP and Torque tests on the engine dyno.

Also considered doing something a turbo for a 2 stroke.

I don't necessarily need to build something that no one else ever has. I could improve on something that was already built.

So if you guys have any comments, suggestions, or ideas, let me know and send them my way. It's the last opportunity I will have to utilize the facility and tools I have full access too and would really like to come up with something that was intriguing.
 
How about a 300 hp sled that weighs in at 200 lbs wet, runs on air, and is indestructible!

Maybe look at clutching / gearing / track drive as thats where the biggest inefficiencies are so even a slight increase in efficiency there would have a decent impact.
 
I feel like 12 months isnt enough time to design and build a engine from scratch, and actually be successful in making a good engine. BUT, I dont see why you couldnt design a Big bore kit, make your own pistons and cylinders. Turn your 800 into a 950 or something like that. Just an idea

Helix's would fun to make too, you could try so many different angles and designs till you get the best
 
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Don't bite off more than you can chew. When I did my 4th year design project, the real basis of the course was the principles of design...How did you arrive at your idea?...How did you solve it?...test..and Fix...and sum up a conclusion. It wasn't about how complex of a design you can build, but the process of doing a start to finish job. Pick something simple, even a simple variation of a clutch weight, would be a excellent design project, and do a good job by being very thorough. I know a lot of people in our class bit of a much bigger project than they could handle and struggled trying to find a time commitment in getting it complete and their design and grading reflected that.

A good suggestion would be to truly analyze the benefits of going to a belt drive. Design and build a self adjusting tensioner that works properly and study the gains or losses or it

Another thing I would try would be to incorporate good bushings or roller bearings into clutch arms or weights and try to validate if there are gains in acceleration or response.

Another could be to do a driveline study or a rear suspension and try to improve on what is out there.

How about the age old problem of ice build up?

Simple ideas that you could do a really good job on and still learn something from.
 
KISS. Mucho complications with todays 2 strokes. Find an old single ex port trail model twin engine (maybe even a fan). Install an intercooled cooled (combustion temps) turbo and play with ex port height only to get the running pressure you want.
Pick up one of the many relatively inexpensive low pressure automobile throttle body injection systems, throw a "autozone" fuel pump in the tank and install into the intake track to run premix.
Use your brain time to come up with inputs from pipe pressure, boost pressure, and 2 ex pipe temps locations to vary fuel needs.

That would be innovative as well as tough to do in 12 months.
 
I chat with the ME group from U of I that have been working on the clean sled challenge every year at their booth at the Puyallup show. They are always running into time issues between lab time, other school work, designing and waiting for parts and materials. That 12 months is going to blow by faster than you can imagine.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
I will be graduating in May of 2015 and am currently doing research for a final project in the Mechanical Engineering department at my University. This project focus's on the 3 stages of product development, (eg. Research Design, Construction, Testing). We have an amazing facility that allows us access to some of the equipment major manufacture's would only have access too, which will will result in all in house machining.

The main reason I am bringing it up to you all, is we have recently acquired an 2 stroke Snowmobile Engine dyno at our facility. Its capable of 2 cylinder motors, up to I believe 1500cc.

I'm not positive exactly what I want to do yet, which is why I wanted to pick your brains and see what you guys think. I have a full 12 months to finish, which makes room for plenty of time to design, build, and test.

I've contemplated designing a 2 stroke engine completely from scratch, machine cases, cranks, pistons, etc. in our machine shop, and perform HP and Torque tests on the engine dyno.

Also considered doing something a turbo for a 2 stroke.

I don't necessarily need to build something that no one else ever has. I could improve on something that was already built.

So if you guys have any comments, suggestions, or ideas, let me know and send them my way. It's the last opportunity I will have to utilize the facility and tools I have full access too and would really like to come up with something that was intriguing.


Machining Cases would be interesting by you can achieve much more with quality castings (not as limited to water jacket shapes and design which a two stroke engine is much more temperamental with)

If you want to incorporate machining look at the crankshaft and piston specifically where you can reduce rotating or reciprocating mass and friction which is an issue that applies to just about any engine being produced.

A proper 2 stroke turbo would be interesting but I doubt you would get any real hands on experience by the time you looked at proper port area, height....etc. I bet it would be an optimization task of cylinder ports vs. turbo sizing / ideally specifying your own to be designed at a later date with CFD and intensive modelling of a two stroke cylinder



I am guessing a Low Inertia A/C Dyno ? What software programs are with it and do you have access to cylinder pressure instrumentation? [AVL Indimeter setup would be ideal and be more likely to perk the ears up in industry if they don't have to pay to get you up to speed...if wanting to work in automotive]

Really Hard / Much more time consuming to do any sort of productive dynamometer work without an A/C dyno and a cylinder pressure measurement system (Does not have to be AVL)

Agreed that it is probably a better idea if the task of the project is smaller therefore you can go further in depth and if you want to use certain other facilities do it as a personal bonus that can loosely be tied into the project you are working on ...A YEAR GOES BY SUPER FAST ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE OTHER COURSEWORK


One thing i think would be really interesting to investigate in a 2 stroke application that would encompass the majority of what you learned throughout your course and be able to show how this has potential to advance engine design and control in the future is....(If you don't I will once I get done with a couple more pressing projects in the pipeline)

If you have access to a quality dyno and can use cylinder pressure measurement equipment. Build a circuit to register spark ionization energy for cylinder pressure measurement and calibrate it to coincide with what the cylinder pressure actually is. Test over a range of speed and load points. If you can tie that together to where with good certainty your circuit works for that particular engine it should be fairly simple to alter it for another engine (if you are going into the automotive field) Doing this gives the ability to have an addition circuit within the ecu that can now read cylinder pressure for MBT spark timing if desired, fueling control, figuring out mass fraction burned.....among many other things and all it utilizes is some code in the ecu no additional sensors needed.
You can use it for more advanced control that I know is already being worked on that I can't talk about; isn't directly related but would part of it and be hugely beneficial to have on board.

If people put the resources and time into investigating control logic and systems like those that are on 4 stroke engines, VVT, advanced knock control (finally making it onto vehicles)...etc. There is no real reason that a 2 stroke cannot meet or exceed the emissions requirements for years to come but without the issues and complexity of the valvetrain and many other things


If not wanting to do something engine related but want to keep it snowmobile related....Front suspension design would be killer since it seems no one has really figured it out with proper placement of spindles and getting the correct geometry all squared away against where the COG, Polar Moment of Inertia and rotating mass....This would also need to account for the constantly changing vehicle dynamics of acting similar to a motorcycle and a car based on the roll of the chassis vs the plane of the snow and how the points of contact interact with the surface.....Obviously most don't have it figured out (the M series was close, IQ and Pro are nearly on the money but the rest I would say are not close and are bandaging it with narrower stance or just aimlessly pushing the spindles forward (I have yet to see actual engineering calculations and vehicle dynamics modeling backing up why ______ has chosen +3'', or +4.5 it seems like it was a build and test method)


If interested in this or want to talk further feel free to PM me I have a bit of info on the topic and am slowing collecting it for my own personal interest. Along with some good ally-ways for information on a lot of different topics
 
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What are your personal plans?
Are you wanting to continue on to grad school?
Looking to begin your career?

If you wanting to continue on to a certain grad school, find out what they are interested in and pursue that. This would make it more likely for you to receive stipens to help fund your furthering of education.

If you are looking to become employed by a certain company, dig into that company.
Let's say you want to work at XYZ, & one of their prototype proposals is a rotary engine powered vehicle.
You could get their attention by trying to improve or re-design a wankel style engine, making you an automatic favorite over the other resumes for a position.

I realize you would like your project to be something that interests you, but the suits of this world don't give 2 sh!ts about anything that doesn't serve their interests.
 
Plenty of good ideas and advice here already. My thoughts are more light weight chassis oriented, to push the envelope on sled design into modern times and sled weights down to near where motocross bikes are. Following Polaris's lead but jumping into Formula 1 and Indy Car technology wise. Three piece bonded driveshaft- utilizing a Carbon fibre center section and thin walled Titanium ends bonded together. Could do the Jackshaft as well, with the large center diameter that Polaris is currently using. The new AXYS bulkhead is also very conducive to be molded in Carbon Fiber. Replacing the tunnel skins in Carbon Fibre would have a synergistic effect on sled performance. Decease in snow retention which will reduce the dynamic weight of the sled as well as the static weight. A true Carbon / Carbon brake assembly or at least a good Aluminum / Ceramic disk. A rear suspension similar to the EZ-Ryde but with Carbon Fiber Rails and a Carbon Fibre Swing arm would also be worth the time investment. I also have an ace in my pocket and have for nearly twenty years; a Clutchless / beltless CVT with the gear reduction and the CVT components inside the drivers to further centralize the mass of the sled. The power would be transferred via a Gates Poly-Chain Carbon belt directly from crankshaft to drive shaft. To date the control components have been cost prohibitive, but would cut an easy twenty pounds out of the current drivetrain.

I recon you have plenty to ponder now and can find something that has a tangable interest for you.
 
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I think try something along the lines of new billet top end for your sled with a thicker water jacket and billet head. Maybe just rebuild your 700 motor with billet aluminum optimizing everything. Improved water jackets, and if possible building two stators that can give a higher DC output one for you one for me.
 
Thanks for all the feedback!! There's a ton of good information here on SnoWest and I knew a lot of you guys would be thinking along the same lines as me.

I am applying to Master's program's in the NW. University of Washington being my first choice. This would ultimately put me in line "possibly" to get the chance to work with one of the big 4 in the snowmobile industry. Design Engineering is a tough field to get into when you narrow it down to 4 companies. But with that being said, I am going to be applying for jobs after I receive my B.S. as well.

As a lot already said, I can't bite off more than I can chew. I take a full course load of classes (5), and have a good amount of work to do outside of class. But I also don't mind spending the extra hours the next guy isn't wanting to do.

I love the idea of pushing the envelope with light weight chassis stuff. I know MFG. right now are trying everything the can possibly think of to do this. That could be good or bad, meaning they are looking for people with new ideas, or they have exhausted a lot of options already. I for one, would like to believe they are looking for people with new ideas. However, A LOT of cost play's into going this route (new sled mainly).

We have a Metallurgical Facility that is capable of casting. I believe it's 1 of 3 in the NW? Not positive about that, but the Prof. in charge of the department has a wealth of information and a Dr. in Metallurgical Sciences. Casting aluminum cases would be a possibility and would produce a lighter product.

I like GEO's idea of building a Turbo system. I know there is a ton of science that is behind the theory. With the kits that are produced today, is their anything that people would like to see, they haven't yet? I know most Turbo's now, are made of high quality parts (i.e. ceramic ball bearings), but are their places in the system itself you guys are finding weak or have room for improvement?? Are you guys concerned with additional weight when adding boost or not concerned??

The belt drive idea has been in the back of my mind the whole time Rotax. I know there is some room for improvement from what I have read and the analysis (F.E.A. and performance analysis) would be a great way to demo. before and after effects.
 
I have a full 12 months to finish, which makes room for plenty of time to design, build, and test.
I've contemplated designing a 2 stroke engine completely from scratch, machine cases, cranks, pistons, etc. in our machine shop, and perform HP and Torque tests on the engine dyno.
Also considered doing something a turbo for a 2 stroke.

Really nice new facility you have there in Ellensburg, cool little college town too, Mocha Death is one of my favorite beers also.

But, having just graduated in May, you'll find that you most likely only have Spring semester to actually build anything with fall being dedicated to design choice evaluation.

My advice is scale you project down from the start, let your advisers scale it up if need be, and enjoy the heck out of you last year of college.
This project is where you really learn engineering so don't pigeon hole yourself into something too specific or too lofty.

What ever you choose, make sure and structure it so you can really sell yourself through your experience with the project to potential employers.
 
Agreed that it is probably a better idea if the task of the project is smaller therefore you can go further in depth

I have todisagree with this.
For my senior project we built a baja car.
I was able to gain experience in chassis design, suspension, engine, powertrain, fabrication, electrical systems, manufacturing, project management.
Not just one or two of those things
 
Ahhhhh yes, I wish I had the option of picking any project I wanted for my design project, a bit jealous about that! Mech eng graduate here too.

Here's another project idea that I think somebody might actually be able to profit from if it worked well - http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3518991#post3518991 - see my posts in there . Create a device that maintains a pre-set exhaust pipe pressure despite variation in elevation . This could involve some aspects of electrical control, or not - depends how fancy you want to get. good luck & have fun whatever you do!
 
Great project ideas. This might give you a few ideas. http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/218137-xp-500ss-full-wet-450lbs/?hl= lrd

I started with what was one of the lightest over 100 HP liquid cooled sleds built in the last 35 years to my knowledge. A 08 Doo TNT with 600 carb. It now weighs about 365 lbs dry and has a 15 X 141 X 2.25 track.

Just added a pressure transducer to monitor Pipe Pressure full time with my touch screen dash gauge and will be able to log RPM, MPH, left, right and center of belly is pipe temps, coolant temps, and airbox temps. This the gauge that will do all this and a lot more. http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/product/D200/index.php?category=&product=DIS-3000

If anybody knows of off the shelf pressure transducers that I could use to monitor in cylinder combustion pressure please give me a clue. This the only way I have thought of to turn a sled into a real dyno. I know this would work as Barry Holtzman built a mechanical fuel injector system that worked off the cylinders combustion pressure. http://www.holtzmaneng.com/ Pretty sure with that pressure measured with a little electronics you'd have the best possible fuel injection system.
 
Great project ideas. This might give you a few ideas. http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/218137-xp-500ss-full-wet-450lbs/?hl= lrd

I started with what was one of the lightest over 100 HP liquid cooled sleds built in the last 35 years to my knowledge. A 08 Doo TNT with 600 carb. It now weighs about 365 lbs dry and has a 15 X 141 X 2.25 track.

Just added a pressure transducer to monitor Pipe Pressure full time with my touch screen dash gauge and will be able to log RPM, MPH, left, right and center of belly is pipe temps, coolant temps, and airbox temps. This the gauge that will do all this and a lot more. http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/product/D200/index.php?category=&product=DIS-3000

If anybody knows of off the shelf pressure transducers that I could use to monitor in cylinder combustion pressure please give me a clue. This the only way I have thought of to turn a sled into a real dyno. I know this would work as Barry Holtzman built a mechanical fuel injector system that worked off the cylinders combustion pressure. http://www.holtzmaneng.com/ Pretty sure with that pressure measured with a little electronics you'd have the best possible fuel injection system.



why type do you have in mind, spark plug pressure transducers, just cylinder mounted...... also take into account they have a pretty short life cycle ~10^6 - 10^8 cycles before usually needing to be replaced
 
why type do you have in mind, spark plug pressure transducers, just cylinder mounted...... also take into account they have a pretty short life cycle ~10^6 - 10^8 cycles before usually needing to be replaced

That wasn't what I'm looking for. Was hoping for something that would last a
while. Seem to remember reading a few years ago that the automotive industry was working on a type that had a mirrored surface read by a laser that could measure the deflection made by combustion pressure. Thought they were trying for regular production cars for a much more accurate way of measuring for needed fuel and timing, variable cam timing etc.
 
That wasn't what I'm looking for. Was hoping for something that would last a
while. Seem to remember reading a few years ago that the automotive industry was working on a type that had a mirrored surface read by a laser that could measure the deflection made by combustion pressure. Thought they were trying for regular production cars for a much more accurate way of measuring for needed fuel and timing, variable cam timing etc.

Unaware of any such system but I will do some digging and ask around. The main research area on the subject seems to have pushed towards the spark ionization energy since it just needs to be replaced when the plugs do and it requires no additional sensors. I think the laser to mirrored surface would encounter the same sort of issues with degradation due to fatigue if it was a standalone sensor. Now if it mounted into the water jacket and measured deflection of the cylinder head surface that may be plausible but I doubt you would get a resolution that would be worth while.
 
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