M1000 Crank Balancing Before/After

[7perk]

Check out the 2 videos on my web site we had to go from 73 gram weighs to 80 gram and it is still not enough possibly 83 grams or 84.8 7850 rpm with the 80's. (Normal operating rpm 7400 to 7600)
Listen to the noise difference!!!

http://youtu.be/peWNwhuB1IY

http://youtu.be/4-kZz2kMfFE

 

[Sledbrain2]

Obvious question why wasn't the clutch on both runs? I have always been told the clutch is a counter weight to crank,

 

[7perk]

M1000 Crank Balance

The clutch does not need to be on as a counter weigh it is a separate part but we used it to complete the unbalance of the crank assy. because the crank was so far out of balance.
Also we left it off to show the clutch has nothing to do with the tremondous unbalance in the crank assy. Everyone thinks crank runout and clutch unbalance are the major problems when it comes to vibration and unbalance. Repairing crank runout is a waste of money and time. The clutch by it self was 1 gram on front and 1.5 on back of clutch.
The crank 210grams PTO and 200 on mag. This sled is running smoother (less vibration) then the 2014 M8 that we raced and beat.

 

[sunbather1969]

I understand all your lingo and everything makes sense

But that clutch on the end can dampen a lot of whats going on, show us apples to apples and i'm not arguing I understand and believe everything your saying but I also know what a harmonic balancer does.

 

[kiliki]

what was said ^^ but also we have no way to validate the pulley was not "200 out". this can also be masked by weight in the clutch you cant see in vid.
not disagreeing with the cat crank is not way out.

 

[7perk]

Arctic Cat M1000 Crank Balancing

If the clutch was on the before balance video it would have had the SAME shake. The pulley had zero unbalance in it. That shake or vibration is caused by the unbalance and 200 grams of unbalance produces 1500 lbs. of centrifugal force at 8000 rpm and that's why many of you M1000 sled owners have replaced a broken crank. This sled will not break belts or cranks ever again.

 

[Hardass]

See my post in your other thread 7 Perk

 

[M1000Mod162]

Sorry bud, But I call bs on this! I happen to have had the opportunity to meet, ride, chat and wrench with a lot the Cat engineers and Suzuki engineers when they would come test in my area through the years, I happen to have some crank issues with my m1000 after about 1500 miles or so. So after talking with them about it they explained to me how important the clutch is on the 1000 twin because it is the only Counter balance on the motor which is needed with the bigger Top end in the 1000. They said 95% of cats 1000 crank failures were from unbalanced clutches From the factory due to the factory tolerance specs being to broad and Cat not wanting to pony up the extra dough to get them in proper Balance with each motor. Number 2 reason from Clutch failure of some kind going un noticed and really sending the clutch out of balance. That's why some people end up with 5000 miles on a 1000 and some only got 500! The un balanced clutch slowly slops out those bearings and it continually gets worse till crank failure!

They also said to NEVER EVER run the engine without a Clutch because it would cause damage to crank bearings!

So that being said im not doubting your balance skills but your test was Bs that Crank was worn out from that OUT of balanced clutch you pulled off it and Rebalanced! Then you fire up the old trashed motor with No clutch! Of course its going to shake like hell!

Try Apples to apples take your crank mod and those bearings and compare it to a New Factory Crate motor with a Properly balanced clutch and show us that Test! Suzuki knows how to build a motor! 1000 cat problems were on cats clutches! Not a bad motor!

 

[Rixster]

What rpm are you testing at? 1000 rpm ? The clutch should start closing (engaging) in the 3400 range, so your obviously not spinning it at its optimal operating rpm.

 

[7perk]

M1000 Crank Balancing

The unbalance does not change with RPM. The centrifugal force multiples with rpm. We have ran the clutches and or the motors in the chassis and the unbalance doesn't change no matter the rpm 1400 to 8000.

The clutch on this M1000 was balanced by itself to 1 gram front and back so don't put out lies from the so called factory. If you see how many high density pins are welded into the crank you would not put out statements like the clutch is a counter weight and it will dampen out 200 grams of unbalance per side in the crank.

Repairing runout is a waste of money that does little of nothing for the 200 grams of unbalance.

 

[2010Catman]

The unbalance does not change with RPM. The centrifugal force multiples with rpm. We have ran the clutches and or the motors in the chassis and the unbalance doesn't change no matter the rpm 1400 to 8000.

The clutch on this M1000 was balanced by itself to 1 gram front and back so don't put out lies from the so called factory. If you see how many high density pins are welded into the crank you would not put out statements like the clutch is a counter weight and it will dampen out 200 grams of unbalance per side in the crank.

Repairing runout is a waste of money that does little of nothing for the 200 grams of unbalance.

Whose your dealer? You must be smoking the wrong stuff bud!

 

[m8magicandmystery]

200 grams of unbalance per side in the crank.

.

ok..again another retarded question...and you seem not to be answering many of them but I will try another one..


so the above quote, it appears you adjusted 200 grams of imbalance per side..

How many sides are we dealing with..???...

if only two and both sides were either equally positive or negative corrections..why bother..??

 

[shuttlevalve]

I had a long talk with Bob last friday...

I checked out the video and was pretty interested. I acutally called Bob the owner of the arctic cat dealer that he's refering to in the video. It was his personal 08 M1000 that it was done on. We had about a 20 minute coversation. Bob understood that a work in progress and could have a few problems. First off he said at idle it still had some vibrations but it was due to the firing of the engine and it was smoother than any 800. He had to add 7 grams of weight per arm to get the overrev settled back down to optimal numbers for the full slp pipe set up. The side effects that were bad = It was splitting the pipe out at the 90 bend, the theory being the exhaust pulses were greater now due to increased effiency or maybe the harmonics have changed. Bob replaced the expansion chamber and it cracked again. He put the stock pipe on and it choked out the engine and lost RPMs and it still ended up cracking out that pipe also. So now he has a bikeman pipe rapped in header cloth and Slp like bands clamping down on it to dampen the pulses and managed to get it to hold together and runs well as of last tuesdays ride(3/11/14) and ran well againist a M1100 turbo(didnt say if it was modded or not). He may try a 1200 BB Bikeman pipe on it since the diameter at the bend is much bigger it kind of sounds like the pipe is holding it back. I would love to see before and after dyno work done. I did talk directly with joe perk on saturday, but i will save that for the next reply...

 

[shuttlevalve]

Sorry bud, But I call bs on this! I happen to have had the opportunity to meet, ride, chat and wrench with a lot the Cat engineers and Suzuki engineers when they would come test in my area through the years, I happen to have some crank issues with my m1000 after about 1500 miles or so. So after talking with them about it they explained to me how important the clutch is on the 1000 twin because it is the only Counter balance on the motor which is needed with the bigger Top end in the 1000. They said 95% of cats 1000 crank failures were from unbalanced clutches From the factory due to the factory tolerance specs being to broad and Cat not wanting to pony up the extra dough to get them in proper Balance with each motor. Number 2 reason from Clutch failure of some kind going un noticed and really sending the clutch out of balance. That's why some people end up with 5000 miles on a 1000 and some only got 500! The un balanced clutch slowly slops out those bearings and it continually gets worse till crank failure!

They also said to NEVER EVER run the engine without a Clutch because it would cause damage to crank bearings!

So that being said im not doubting your balance skills but your test was Bs that Crank was worn out from that OUT of balanced clutch you pulled off it and Rebalanced! Then you fire up the old trashed motor with No clutch! Of course its going to shake like hell!

Try Apples to apples take your crank mod and those bearings and compare it to a New Factory Crate motor with a Properly balanced clutch and show us that Test! Suzuki knows how to build a motor! 1000 cat problems were on cats clutches! Not a bad motor!

First thing is the Clutch is not a counter balancer (in theory it should be perfectly balanced) at best it may act as a dampner. If it was a counter balancer it would be Keyed at a specific angle in relation to the lobes of the crankshaft then would most likely have some kind of weight attached to the back flange were the starter ring would mount.

 

[Thunder101]

I know squat about balancing but I think the vibs at 1000rpm mean very little compared to the vibs at cruising rpm and peek rpm. M2C

 

[shuttlevalve]

I know squat about balancing but I think the vibs at 1000rpm mean very little compared to the vibs at cruising rpm and peek rpm. M2C

I cant disagree with this. I work on Aircraft for a living and when i balance a turbo prop my chadwick prop balancer says to set up the prop RPM to Cruise where it spends most of its life for checking the balance. The TPE331 turbo props do have a harmonic vibration problem between 18-28% during start up and you need to make sure the engine accelerates though that rpm range as quickly as possible during the start(These engines run ath 96-100% all the time). these engines are balanced, but in that range its not good and i guess they cannt correct it just the nature of the beast. It would be interesting to see it checked at 1000 rpms intervals all the way up to 8000 rpms if it could be safely done on a bench to see if the vibration is linier getting more intense all the way up