Loud Exhaust On Snowmobiles... Is there a place for this anymore?

[XC700116]

I look at it this way, If your going to spend money to make your sled Loud and NOT perform better you are a TOOL, Period. I am all in favor of performance but I have also seen and experienced that Loud does not = performance. Even the highest forms of racing in our sport require a silencer or muffler of some sort. Many, if using multiple pipes, require a collector style muffler (like twins into a single can vs indiv. glasspacks). This is because they operate in populated areas and they DON'T WANT TO GET SHUT DOWN!!!!!

That being said, I run a turbo that is 1 DBA above the new law going into effect in CO July 1 2010. I am currently exploring options to lower that sound level without sacrificing performance, AND I WILL FIND IT.

Now do you really want more laws like this, Go look at the laws in MN, WI, MI, ect. There your lucky if you can get past them with the quietest Aftermarket exhausts like SLP. And they do have Speed Limits on trails and Law Enforcement ON TRAILS enforcing these laws.

Like MANY folks have already said here, why give them more ammo, No they aren't going to stop, but if your in a war are you going to drop some extras behind enemy lines for them to shoot at you? No. Then why do it here?

 

[will]

Loud sleds

Good topic and I'd have say there's nothing more annoying than a sled ripping past you that rattles your ear drums to the point you want to tear your helemet off and put in ear plugs. Sledding in the mountains is not a controlled sport like lets say going to the track, where you expect the noise and choose to put your self in that situation. I beleive it comes down to lack of respect for others, just like people that drive around with stereos in their vehicals that will shake the windows out of your vehical, your house from blocks away, you can feel this sound (noise) into the core of your body, same goes for loud street bikes.

If you've ever spent any time in Europe or Asia (and some larger North Americain cities) where it's crowed and the traffic is way heavier than most of us are used to and tried to sleep at night with your window open or closed for that matter, you may be able to relate to the space and peace and quite we take for granted.

Most people don't appreciate this excessive noise, so why not stick with moderation, save your hearing, our hearing and you'll still enjoy your self every bit as much. The back country is not there for only the people that think exsesive noise is cool, it's for everyone to enjoy including the other sledders.

Will

 

[Ex-Member]

Loud pipes are for harleys.

 

[onlyrotax]

Loud pipes are for harleys.

Now that's profound.

 

[mountainhorse]

One BIG thing that I want to mention.

Lets not turn this into a "Loud pipe/turbo" Vs. "Quiet sleds" argument that splits US as snomobilers.

Were all sledders on this forum... Lets use this great way of connecting to each other to help ourselves.

The point of this thread is simply to bring attention to the topic of loud exhaust on our sleds and how this is hurting our public image which is a factor in how decisions are made concerning the access to lands that we currently enjoy.

 

[ruffryder]

mountainhorse,

I think you are hitting on a very important topic that gets lost in pretty much every discussion about closing down sled areas.

We do not know who we are fighting this battle against. It is not against "the greenies". They are not our opponents in this. Our public image is. Our inability to see problems with our sport and attempt to resolve them is. Our complacency is...

The greenies seem to serve only as a distraction to us, allow snowmobilers to use the mentality that there is no point in making changes, because for the greenies it will never be enough.

Again, the greenies are not the enemy, we are..

 

[corpeleven]

Food for thought

Take a look at the census from 2000. Pay attention to rural vs urban, and then look at the urban area catagories.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

I think it's pretty safe to say the the vast majority of snowmobilers are living in rural areas or "small urbanized clusters". Agree?

Now look at the percentage of the total population of Urban vs rural and Urban over 200k vs Urban under 200k.

That should give you some idea of the "General Public" that Mountainhorse keeps referring to and how vastly outnumbered we are in this fight. It is absolutely asinine to keep giving them ammo to fight us. Like one user said, "all the public sees is the cold start sleds smoking in the rental shop". EXACTLY. That huge population that doesn't know S*** about snowmobiling sees that scenario on the morning news and instantly hates sleds. They probably never even get out of their highrise office buildings at all, yet they still have the power to take away our riding areas simply by a vote.

 

[sdobbs20]

before readign this, i'd just like to say this is not directed at a single individual, just making generalizations about people, not the best thing to group everyone into one thing but it happens. "we" "sledders" look at all non-sledders as "greenies" or "hippies." it's what it is.

i think the cost of having loud pipes is greater than the benefit of having them. i find it very disturbing to be sitting across a valley and hearing a sled barking. wearing ear plugs just to ride it? really? shouldn't that be a sign that it's not worth it. i think that if you're worried about making more power so you can make it over the next avalanche prone slope, maybe you ought to become a more capable rider using skills.

the fact that "greenies" hate it is true. what's even more important is the fact that some sledders hate it too! management is out there to provide society with the tools to meet our objectives. despite having different objectives because not every one beleives in the same thing, common ground can be found, even without it being at the total loss of sledders or vice versa.

as far as pipes on harley's go, i think that's the same issue. when you can't hear someone yelling to try and be louder than their hog, i think there's an issue. on my street bike, i have an aftermarket exhaust. it has a removable baffle. it is on par with loudness of the stock exhaust, just gives it a different tone. it is not obnoxiously loud. it reduces weight, and physical appearance is increased. i think that the consumer market of enthusiasts has turned and gone in the wrong direction. people are so worreid about making more power and being noticed.

what's wrong with doing something you love, for the sake of your passion for it? does that attention it bring you make you feel tingly inside?

 

[mountainhorse]

There are more sleds on the mountian than ever before...

More interaction with the public, on our sleds, than ever before...
More snowmobile triggered avalanches in the News....
More encounters with snow shoe'rs, skiers, SAR crews, trail maint crews, forestry service, people at the gas station...

In general, more people actually see snowmobiles than they have in the past.

If this "interaction" is less invasive to others around us, as we enjoy our sleds... the better chance we will have to access the lands we enjoy riding in the years to come.

Our loud exhausts won't be taken away... The sledding lands we enjoy will be.

I want to be sledding for many years to come... I want to see lands remain open to backcountry snowmobiling, parts and sleds to be made and the happiness of my fellow sledders shared!!

The fact is, we will continue to lose land usage rights... that is not an "If" but a "when"... I want to see as much remaining as possible.

 

[BackCountryBob]

-You cannot separate land closures from politics.
-It's all about politics---follow the money.
-We are the foil the Sierra Club, the Friends of Yellowstone, etc are using us to raise big donation money to support their officers.
-Their tools are pollution---sound---exhaust(air)---erosion---water shed degradation(oil), trash. Animal herding. High speed drunk driving.

The number one pollution issue is sound. Our liberal politicians are eager to accept political donations from these groups and will vote in Congress to appease them.

We only hurt ourselves by flaunting our noisy sleds and dirt bikes/atvs. Ammunition for the organized green groups eager for more power. This is not just a sled issue---its a motorized issue.

Yellowstone is their poster child. Now that they have forced sleds into limited access using "best available technology", they are now zeroing in on the snow coaches. Their ultimate goal is to use the Mt. Mckinley NP and Yosemite NP models by eliminating all vehicular travel and resorting to bus tours.

Once they have accomplished this they will use the same tactics to control our National and BLM Forests.

In order to keep donations flowing in they need an adversery---namely the internal combustion engine. No noise, no pollution.

The Colorado State Parks have taken a big step to help reduce the noise pollution issue by requiring an 88dB for sleds and a 96dB for dirt bikes/atv. Hopefully my stock REV with a SLP can will pass but I am gladly prepared to go back to stock to preserve the peace.

Hopefully this will quiet the noise issue and make it more difficult for the zealots to influence the courts.

The new mountain sleds are quieter, lighter and more powerful so there is no need to spend additional sled bucks for an after market can to get that last 5 hp or the last 10 lbs of weight off the sled.

As a footnote, the hundreds of sleds touring Grand Lake are predominately stock rentals, and yes they come and go without much notice.

Being courteous, riding as quiet as possible, and picking up our trash can go a long way to improve our image so we can ride another day.

BCB

 

[PassRev]

OK, I always thought that the performance gain from an aftermarket can was loss of weight. No? When I purchased both of our 04 Rev 800's, the original owners had installed aftermarket cans on both. From everything I have read on the forums here, seems like a pretty standard upgrade.

I'm not attached to the sound our sleds make and if someone pointed out a aftermarket can that is significantly more quiet then what we have now I would replace both. So, as long as you brought this up, who makes quiet cans? I read a post that mentioned SLP? Are there others?

 

[XC700116]

I honestly don't know of the sound levels of the other aftermarket mfg's exhaust's besides a couple of them like MBRP, Snow-Stuff, and HPS (all on the loud side)

SLP has been a front runner and has made it a primary goal to be VERY close to stock sound levels while still saving weight and improving or not harming hp. They have made it a clear goal since about 2000 when the sound laws first started going into effect in the midwest. At that time there was a strong consideration in the legislature in MN, WI, and MI to make it illegal to alter your exhaust from stock. Luckily SLP stepped up to the plate and gave them a reason to rethink that.

I have heard good things about the Ultra-Q/Super-Q series of Cans as well but have no personal experience with them.

 

[ruffryder]

Our liberal politicians are eager to accept political donations from these groups and will vote in Congress to appease them.

I don't think this is as big of an issue as many seem. I think a bigger issue is the lack of voice we have in comparison. It seems like it is more due to a lack of using our voice then anything. When policies are open for public debate and the majority of the public speak out for wilderness, is it any wonder why snowmobilers don't get their way?

 

[Ollie]

I don't think this is as big of an issue as many seem. I think a bigger issue is the lack of voice we have in comparison. It seems like it is more due to a lack of using our voice then anything. When policies are open for public debate and the majority of the public speak out for wilderness, is it any wonder why snowmobilers don't get their way?

Ruffy brings up some good points.
I can't believe I said that so I'll say it again.
Ruffy brings up some good points.

The general perseption is that sledders are all a bunch of drunk rednecks.
It doesn't help when reports come out of sledders running down deer.
Add to this the sound issue and it's just that much harder for us to get a fair shake from politicians.
Yes, envirozealots pay millions each year to politicians that vote the way they want and pay millions more to attack politicians that don't. Just look at the Politician from Idaho, they spent millions to get him tossed because he actually paid attention to the laws governing wilderness.

We are an easy target for politicians and envirozealots, why?
Because we make ourselves easy targets.
Loud pipes, driving at rediculous speeds (mostly a flatlander issue), drinking and riding (again, mostly a flat lander issue) but it all paints all of us with the same brush.
If we can as a group simply start removing the ammunition the envirozealots have, it will be that much easier to get politicians to vote for us. Also, we need to openly support politicians that support us.

The sad part is, it is only a small part of the population that is trying and succeeding to shut us out. However, it is a VERY well funded anti-access group. The majority of people are in cities and woundn't know the difference between a sled and donut. The city dwellers just want to do what they think is the right thing. It makes them feel good to do the "right" thing. All they need to hear is the sound of a sled played for them by those same anti-access groups and the city dwellers jump all over it, because bambi is scared by the scary noice.

Now the fact the noice was turned up and bambi was photoshopped in doesn't matter, but till we can convince city dwellers the anti-access groups are full of it, the greenies will continue to enjoy unbridled control of the issue.

noice is an easy weapon for them to use against us.
Period.

 

[icr]

I ride where noise is not an issue, I've never seen another non-rider in these areas, not even the parking lot. I rarely see other riders on the hill. My nearest neighbor is almost a quarter mile away with lots of trees in between.

I agree loud sleds don't help our cause.

I have a loud sled.

If I could get the same performance with less noise I would pay extra for it.

 

[Ollie]

Even if noise isn't an issue where you live, all it takes is a greenie with a video camera and it is an example they will use to paint the rest of us and the entire industry.

What engine set up are you using that requires a loud exhaust?
Just curious.

 

[icr]

Sure, all it takes is one greenie and a video camera, and if that fails all it takes is one greenie and a video editing program. Nothing like splicing audio and video to "prove" a point.

UB 1000cc based off a cat 900 in an edge chassis with modified slp singles into twin canisters (stingers). If you can find a quieter exhaust without HP loss I'll buy it, no BS.

 

[Scott]

I got at far as this post and hit the reply button...forgive me cause as of right now, I have not read the rest of the thread before posting.



Your spin has been thrown out there over and over again and I DO understand what you are saying.
It's reasonable to ask what you are asking, but "they" are not trying to close I-90 where people ride their Harley and if they do, there are MILLIONS of OTHER miles people could ride their Harley.

"They" are trying to close MILLIONS of acres of backcountry where nobody hears those piped sleds. I've hashed this out OVER and OVER again with people on here. Sometimes with REALLY STUPID morons who have the same mentality as what a lot of MH said in his first post. "F- the greenies" and "I'll do what I want" and that bullchit attitude. The dummest aholes to argue with me where the ones who don't live out here but bring their loud as possible sleds out here to ride and then go back to Minnesota. I wish I could remember which SW users they were...it was a whole group of idiots. Not that ALL MN's are idiots...(only the ones who think straight stingers are the best)...I got so much enjoyment out of those idiots telling me that I was stupid for being sensitive to the surroundings in which I live. The ironic part being that they don't...and they don't live here either.

With that being said...I do have a piped sled. It IS louder than stock and I don't mine quieting it down. I do have the largest exhaust mufflers made for twin pipes. Nobody makes them bigger or quieter than the ones that I have.

If someone made me some QUIETER exhausts for it, I'd give it a try....but nobody makes quiet stingers for twin pipes that are still light. NO, SLP does not either.

NOW, I'll go read the rest of this thread.

Ok.... I see your point..... but.. I'll throw a spin on things...


Why is it ok for Harley riders to have bikes that are so darn loud they can be heard from MILES away, when 1/2 way across my town on the hwy?

Why are they allowed to be loud?

Most high performance machines are loud for a reason...... less restriction.

However, if you do some research.... vehicles with a shorter / no "muffler" exhaust off of a TURBO are actually fairly quiet, in comparison to their supercharged or N/A counterparts.

110dBa shouldn't be considered "rediculous". I know that a concert hall is a LOT louder than that. Shoot, a BAR is louder than that.

 

[Scott]

this is exactly the kind of ignorance the greenies are using to close down the land we ride. Please, dont ever speak in public representing our sport.

When you no longer have land to ride your sled...have fun smoking cigarettes with your fat girlfriend.

lmfao

 

[Mag]

lmfao

No humor allowed on this thread.