Let's have a brainstorm session

[Ollie]

There are a number of things that could be done.
Blaming the oil companies is useless.
If we drilled anwar and explored more in the US we could force down the price.
You will NEVER get enough of a saving by conservation to make a difference.
Here's why.
As has been stated. If we changed our driving habbits enough to make a difference, revenue from fuel sales would drop and the tax on fuel would go up to cover the difference. The governemtn isn't going to do with less, they will just expect you to pay more.

The whole time we are trying to conserve, the developing countries will ensure the price doesn't come down.

So, lets stop dealing with the same exact problem and lets change track here.
Think outside the box if you will.

What could be added to fuel to stretch it? No I am not talking just E-85. If we can make bio-diesel, sythetic oil, why can't we make a sythetic fuel? or an additive to stretch it?

How do we make an engine more efficient? Is there a way to more efficiently use the energy created by the buring fuel?

 

[winter brew]

Do you mean like putting bricks in your gas tank?

 

[Motley Doo]

What about just propane for the sleds? Brad Story's sled was awesome, but not sure about how a 2-stroke would respond to it. Its cheap, and 110 octane! Any input?

 

[Ollie]

What about just propane for the sleds? Brad Story's sled was awesome, but not sure about how a 2-stroke would respond to it. Its cheap, and 110 octane! Any input?

We would just be switching one limited supply for another.
We need a different way.

With all the engineers, college types and all over smart people on here we can't come up with any solid ideas??

 

[6Mile]

Here is my $.02 on the issue.

Trains. and I don't mean the stupid light rail people moving systems that all of the green loving cities are installing at price tags of 1B or more. for short runs. I am talking about the heavy freight trains again. This was the most eficent way to move heavy freight arround our country and we just let the system wither away. It was easier to just have trucks move the stuff arround when was cheeper. Now we have turned most of the heavy rail systems in the bike paths and green ways for the enviro-nazis.

If we could reduce the number of turcks running arround on our roads by half we would not only save on fuel, but also on road maintenance.

 

[Mafesto]

Good point

 

[XC700116]

Here is my $.02 on the issue.

Trains. and I don't mean the stupid light rail people moving systems that all of the green loving cities are installing at price tags of 1B or more. for short runs. I am talking about the heavy freight trains again. This was the most eficent way to move heavy freight arround our country and we just let the system wither away. It was easier to just have trucks move the stuff arround when was cheeper. Now we have turned most of the heavy rail systems in the bike paths and green ways for the enviro-nazis.

If we could reduce the number of turcks running arround on our roads by half we would not only save on fuel, but also on road maintenance.

I don't mean to pi$$ on your parade, and I agree to some extent, and it's already happening. I work for the second largest railway in the US, We are now on our 21st consecutive quarter of record setting revenue. The higher the fuel costs we see the more you see those Trains with semi-trailers on them. Trains are the second most efficient mode of transportation currently in use, second only to the super freighter ships on the oceans. We are also continuously installing more rail to handle increased traffic but at over 5 million dollars per mile it's hard to keep the stockholders happy and expand much. We are also continuously updating our fleet of locomotives to newer "greener" (I hate that term) technologies.

However we are also one of the biggest contributors to the fuel costs. We are 3rd in the nation for use of diesel fuel. First is the US Navy, second the largest Railroad in the US and then us. We buy all our Diesel fuel for the Trains on futures which only fuels the speculators fire. We also figure in the amount of growth we will have in the future to make these deals which compounds the speculative shortages. This type of buying will continue to force the price up no matter what the private sector does to conserve.

Until we can increase the supply chain of Oil or DRASTICALLY decrease use, it will not go down significantly. By drastically I mean much more than just the private sector (although every little bit helps). We would have to make huge cuts in the airline industry, Railway, Military use (more nuclear powered ships), look into powering freight ships and cruise lines with nuclear power, Eliminate oil use for power generation, in lieu of nuclear, wind, and solar generation.

All of these things have added up to the Federal Government, in all their infinite wisdom, wanting to re-regulate our industry. They want to basically run it like the Airline industry and we all know how well that's working. The most effective driving force for lowering prices is to increase supply or decrease use. The later being incredibly difficult. Every time the Government tries to regulate something like this it has backfired. Increasing bureaucracy only serves to increase taxes and increase cost of business throughout the spectrum of the industry and outside of it.

Actually for the private sector the light rail installations can help tremendously but it needs to be implemented better like has been done in Europe and Japan instead of these token single route systems like we have been seeing. We also need to expand the use of Trains for long distance travel but the only effective method would be to create designated high speed people hauling routes as the current system is too slow and overloaded now. The problem with this is the investment costs to get into it to begin with due to the massive distances that our geographical size would require.

The one that pi$$es me off the most is all the friggen Celebs and politicians that tell us to conserve when they are flying around on private jets (including Air Force One) capable of hauling 50 people or more but instead they're rolling in style with 5-8 people on them. They burn more fuel in one round trip flight than the average person does in their vehicle in a year. I've often thought the Pres should be flying around in a Gulf-stream or a pimped out CRJ instead of a f-ing 747. I understand the need for the president to have a private plane but all the other idiots could fly commercial just fine.

 

[chinaman]

how 'bout four day work weeks, the whole country would use 20% less

 

[Mafesto]

how 'bout four day work weeks, the whole country would use 20% less

That's what we do.


That's why I waste too much time on here on Mondays!

 

[Ollie]

If you ever get to Japan check out their mass transit system.
It may be outdated and such, but you can get to ANYWHERE in their country by train or bus.

Their system uses a conecting system of trains and buses to get you to within a couple blocks of where you want to go. Denver is putting in the light rail systems now. They are talking of putting it all the way from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins. Great Idea but it will cost billions and take years to even come close to completing. I think it is something we need to do.

Mass product moving via heavy trains is something I think you will see expanding agian. When something becomes cost effective again, you will see more use of it. Trains lost their appeal because of their limited ability to get the freight close (as in delivered to the door) and the cost. Well, the cost is no longer an issue.

 

[hilinerider]

why not coal to liquids, the friggen nazi's did it in ww2 why can't we do it know, we have more coal reserves in the us than any other nation, also you have the coast's there is more trapped methane off our east coast than this nation could burn in 3 lifetimes, and that was if we ran all vehicles on propane? but we can't even look there

 

[6Mile]

I don't mean to pi$$ on your parade, and I agree to some extent, and it's already happening. I work for the second largest railway in the US, We are now on our 21st consecutive quarter of record setting revenue. The higher the fuel costs we see the more you see those Trains with semi-trailers on them. Trains are the second most efficient mode of transportation currently in use, second only to the super freighter ships on the oceans. We are also continuously installing more rail to handle increased traffic but at over 5 million dollars per mile it's hard to keep the stockholders happy and expand much. We are also continuously updating our fleet of locomotives to newer "greener" (I hate that term) technologies.

However we are also one of the biggest contributors to the fuel costs. We are 3rd in the nation for use of diesel fuel. First is the US Navy, second the largest Railroad in the US and then us. We buy all our Diesel fuel for the Trains on futures which only fuels the speculators fire. We also figure in the amount of growth we will have in the future to make these deals which compounds the speculative shortages. This type of buying will continue to force the price up no matter what the private sector does to conserve.

Until we can increase the supply chain of Oil or DRASTICALLY decrease use, it will not go down significantly. By drastically I mean much more than just the private sector (although every little bit helps). We would have to make huge cuts in the airline industry, Railway, Military use (more nuclear powered ships), look into powering freight ships and cruise lines with nuclear power, Eliminate oil use for power generation, in lieu of nuclear, wind, and solar generation.

All of these things have added up to the Federal Government, in all their infinite wisdom, wanting to re-regulate our industry. They want to basically run it like the Airline industry and we all know how well that's working. The most effective driving force for lowering prices is to increase supply or decrease use. The later being incredibly difficult. Every time the Government tries to regulate something like this it has backfired. Increasing bureaucracy only serves to increase taxes and increase cost of business throughout the spectrum of the industry and outside of it.

Actually for the private sector the light rail installations can help tremendously but it needs to be implemented better like has been done in Europe and Japan instead of these token single route systems like we have been seeing. We also need to expand the use of Trains for long distance travel but the only effective method would be to create designated high speed people hauling routes as the current system is too slow and overloaded now. The problem with this is the investment costs to get into it to begin with due to the massive distances that our geographical size would require.

The one that pi$$es me off the most is all the friggen Celebs and politicians that tell us to conserve when they are flying around on private jets (including Air Force One) capable of hauling 50 people or more but instead they're rolling in style with 5-8 people on them. They burn more fuel in one round trip flight than the average person does in their vehicle in a year. I've often thought the Pres should be flying around in a Gulf-stream or a pimped out CRJ instead of a f-ing 747. I understand the need for the president to have a private plane but all the other idiots could fly commercial just fine.

This exactly my point. Trains are the most efficiant mode of transportation on the ground. http://www.csx.com/?fuseaction=general.csxo_env_fue

The trucking companies are doing the same with the fuel They buy it on the futurs markets just the same.

The demand for fuel is not going to go down much at all, it may flatten,but it will always be there. I think that we need to use it more efficantly. long haul trucks are not the most efficiant use of the fuel. They have thier place in the trasnport industry. seeing the same truck on the interstate crossing 3-4 states seems to be a little on the wasteful side.

Your last point about I agree with 100% These clowns fall in to the do as I say not as I do. Limisoune Lib's for the most part.

 

[XC700116]

They're all jumping on that wagon

http://www.bnsf.com/

http://www.up.com/

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/

It is the truth though it is a much more efficient means of moving mass quantity.

Heck even UPS has nearly eliminated all long haul truck movement and put it on trains. Mainly BNSF and UP. If you look at some of the trains even a lot of the trucking companies are now doing it to save costs.

 

[XC700116]

why not coal to liquids, the friggen nazi's did it in ww2 why can't we do it know, we have more coal reserves in the us than any other nation, also you have the coast's there is more trapped methane off our east coast than this nation could burn in 3 lifetimes, and that was if we ran all vehicles on propane? but we can't even look there

That's another good option along with Gas to liquids although our natural gas use is pretty heavy already just from heating and power generation.

Also the methane thing would be great but the greenies won't let us drill that either. According to them burning anything that creates CO2 or hydrocarbons isn't an option.

 

[XC700116]

Mass product moving via heavy trains is something I think you will see expanding agian. When something becomes cost effective again, you will see more use of it. Trains lost their appeal because of their limited ability to get the freight close (as in delivered to the door) and the cost. Well, the cost is no longer an issue.

Definitely, It is now our number one revenue source. just 5 years ago Coal was and all the others thought we were nuts when we started banking heavily on inter modal freight. Who's laughing now

 

[XC700116]

That's what we do.


That's why I waste too much time on here on Mondays!

I wish I could do that this 6-7 days a week crap is getting old. At least I've got a company vehicle that they buy the gas on.