Lessons from Avys

[xrated]

It has been said, but no thread started, so here is the place to "speculate" and discuss what we can learn not only from the Revy incident but from any and all slides.

Yes that means we can blame people and discuss how peopel affected the situation, what they did right, wrong and what had no impact.

I even welcome OT to join in, while abbrasive he can and does have valid points.

So if you want to talk about what you learned from an Avy post it up.

 

[xrated]

I'll get it going and yes my post does have to do with the BIS Avy. I had posted this in a rougher form in the actual avy thread and now I have added and cleaned it up some. My view is how looking at how we can learn from this and make future events safer (and yes I know that BIS was done for the day)

I posted this in the original thread and someone slapped me a negative, but I feel safe posting it here and I did add some thoughts and clarified some. Who knows, maybe one of you utah folks will carry this over to Fairview.

I attended a Rally America Race (guys like Ken Block, Pastrana, etc) this summer which is ran on public roads. They (being the event organization) clear the course prior to the run and if anyone is found on it they either get them off or cancel the stage if you are found after the course is cleared and you get no racing.

They have area marshals that tell people where to go(all of the veiwing areas were fenced off or ribboned off) and if you don't listen they don't fug around....the stage is closed so you have pissed of spectators and racers.

Sure you have every right to go where you want....it's pulic land but as the organizers they have the right to say if you won't stay where it's "safe" then F off we won't run our race.

Could be simple to do for BIS, BDSO, Yammifest, Fairview, etc as well, just takes 10 guys in vests and snow fence (hopefully these marshalls would be extremely knowledgeable in the BC and be very up to date on the Avy conditions, etc). Ideally maybe they coudl go in the day prior or a few hours beforehand to assess the area and mark out viewing areas, maybe a participant could also go along to make sure the areas dont' hinder performance.

Then the racers, climbers agree to stop the event if spectators don't listen. So if Joe comes to watch and decides to park outside the "area" then all the climbers park the sleds and say sorry guys, until Joe moves we aren't going. this would also work for someone who has no knowledge of the event that shows up and stops to see what's going on.

Then not only are the marshals telling people to behave and get somewhere safe, but all the other people up to watch the show are gonna tell those people to fall in line. If there are 150 people and 5 don't want to stay behind the fence, well they might not listen to 1 or 2 marshals, but they are gonna think twice about pissing off 145 other people.

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

You must have never met ozone. All he cares about is those stupid posters and jerseys. That and thinking he is some kind of celebrity. The closest he has come to caring about safety was putting up catch nets at turbo one year. It could be a great event if someone gave a shiitte about something other than thmselves. Sj

 

[xrated]

You must have never met ozone. All he cares about is those stupid posters and jerseys. That and thinking he is some kind of celebrity. The closest he has come to caring about safety was putting up catch nets at turbo one year. It could be a great event if someone gave a shiitte about something other than thmselves. Sj

could be.....so another lesson possibly learned....If you are going to promote an event make sure your heart is fully in it for the right reasons and you are working with people of the same ilk.

 

[sledheadjake]

I truly think that alot of people just dont have alot or if any avy traning,(at least where i live)and tend to just follow anybodys lead.If they see someone high marking or pulling a hill it seems that the sheep just follow,even when the avy danger is high.Just this weekend where i ride the avy danger was high and people were just high marking and plying on every hill in sight,sadly one person died in a avalanche.I truly dont know what it will take to get it through to people that they need to respect the back country,I believe everone should have to take a avy class if they want to sled the back country I truly think it will open alot of peoples Eyes to the dangers.Just my .02.Ride safe.

Jacob

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Getting educated on identifying avy hazards is important but apparently not enough.

Knowledge, like any other tool, is useless if not used correctly.

We sledders, as individuals, need to learn to recognize those factors that encourage us to ignore the threat and that's hard. There's no course to take, or video to watch, or books, or cheat-sheet we can stuff in our wallet. There is only the mountain and the conditions, and our willingness to put what we see and what we know and what our gut tells us ahead of what we want at that moment.

Having vests and radios and catch nets only helps people turn off their internal warning bells. We need better leadership amongst ourselves. We need more people willing to step up and say to their friends "Not today".

My point is if you ride in an area with an avalanche forecast...heed it. When the gurus say human triggered avy's are highly likely...don't ride those slopes. This one thing all by itself would cut avy deaths by 75%. (my estimate)

I'm not campaigning for more government here but I wouldn't mind seeing Avy Danger signs similar to the Forest Fire danger signs the Forest Service uses. This wouldn't be too difficult since most of our mountain riding areas are on FS land already.

If I was a dealership that sold mountain sleds I would invest the money and have 1 or 2 of my best employees trained as avy awareness/first aid/CPR instructors and I would offer free classes once or twice month for every person who buys a sled. (instead of the manufacturer's little disclaimer about recommending a "riders course")

 

[john800]

I like the idea of avy forcast sings at the popular parking lots, the area I ride th emost out west is the snowies riding out of centennial and they do not have a forcast for the area from what I could find on the net, that in this day and age was pretty suprising.

One other thing I would like to stress is that when you see someone doing something wrong or unsafe SPEAK UP! I dont honestly have a clue how far the spectators were from the base of the hill the layout of the land or anything so I will not comment on that my comment is general. It can start with one group coming to a stop to watch some guys climb and then a couple more stop to shoot the bs, someone should know better and they should politely tell them that is not the best choice, it could be there first time to the mountains and they may not know better, I cringe when I think of what we did on our first trip out west, but we got by with it. The easy to prevent deaths are the ones we need to prevent ALL of

someone making a climb in a chute on an extreme or high forcast day is not quite the same thing, he is choosing to take that risk, the last thing I will do is talk him out of it if he is from another group. But do it alone and if you get stuck you are on your own. I will watch from a safe place for him to get himself out, I might even dial 9-1 and have my finger on the next 1

So, to see what we can learn from what happened here are the questions I have:
Where were the spectators and were they in a spot that was considered somewhat safe?
Does anyone know FOR SURE how it was triggered and what the situation was? Was someone really climbing past somone that was stuck?

 

[teamti]

There's a thread entitled 100 Things We Can Do to Be Safe - http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212066

It probably duplicates a lot of what you're trying to say here


This might help cast light on what triggered the slide

http://www.avalanche.ca/Default.aspx?DN=ac60b29a-6eaa-40a2-8ea9-373138567eba

Preliminary CAA report.

Note the following:

The trigger mechanism remains unconfirmed, but eyewitnesses report snowmobiles were highmarking on the slope at the time of the
avalanche. We feel it is safe to assume this avalanche was human triggered by snowmobiling activities.

 

[sledhead890]

I don't mean to change the subject, but I have read a couple posts comparing the revy avy to an accident that happened to a guy named "animal". I was just curious about the details on what happened in his case, was he in the same area? or did he unfortunately get caught by an avy? Any info would be appreciated thanks.

 

[xrated]

If I was a dealership that sold mountain sleds I would invest the money and have 1 or 2 of my best employees trained as avy awareness/first aid/CPR instructors and I would offer free classes once or twice month for every person who buys a sled. (instead of the manufacturer's little disclaimer about recommending a "riders course")

That would be a huge step in the right direction

 

[xrated]

I don't mean to change the subject, but I have read a couple posts comparing the revy avy to an accident that happened to a guy named "animal". I was just curious about the details on what happened in his case, was he in the same area? or did he unfortunately get caught by an avy? Any info would be appreciated thanks.

here ya go.

http://snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194619

I'm sure there is more but when and where that gets shared is up to the people that were there and knew Dave. I do know they will admit they drastically changed how they approached riding and safety.