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Learning curve going to Turbo?

So, I've heard a few different things about whether or not going to a turbo makes you a better rider, or worse rider.

- Competing thoughts are... that a turbo can get you out of predicaments much easier, makes climbing easier, and makes the sled an all around much more fun machine

- Or....that a turbo has such a steep learning curve that it puts riders at risk more until they learn how to harness the power of a turbo, gets into worse positions due to the power increase, and is generally much less safe.

What are your thoughts?
 
I have a turbo kit on my shelf for my alpha that I'm 75% sure I'm going to sell... (got it for a steal so I couldn't say no).

Heres my experience.

I've ridden turbo's for the past ~8-10 years, and this alpha is my first stock sled. I had a Turbo doo, I had the turbo yamaha apex, Then went to my turbo polaris pro rmk last before this alpha. My yamaha was as "turn key and go" or pull and go as it got, the polaris you had to fiddle with the fueling and run an a/f gauge, I spent a lot of time doing that.... To me a ecm flash is the way to go, but only silber offers it for a/c as far as I know. I hear people are so so on the tune and it appears silber guy doesn't care to fix/refine the tune and spends his time more invested to the polaris's. Another issue, the yamaha wasn't so bad but my polaris It was very much ON OR OFF, you couldn't run it half throttle and boosting, it always wanted to take off.

Are turbo's fun? Heck yeah! It comes down to how much boost you want to run but it is fun, no doubt about it they are fun. I figured on the cat if I ran 3-4# your about sea level HP or maybe a tad more, so you'd run pump gas no problem. That said the "learning" curve comes in with how much boost you run, It can be a handful indeed! So yes it can get you out of predicaments easier but they also throw you into predicaments really easy too that you'd normally not even be in at all lol.

The learning curve is again based on boost levels and horsepower. Also it can get you into stupid spots that you shouldn't be in, depends on who you are, climbing hills you shouldn't of or what ever, I remember on my apex, the 320 hp kit on it that I hardly climbed hills, I did at first but then you kinda realize how stupid it is, and sitting there you know you literally could climb anything you can point the nose up so I didn't care to as much,

Some of my issues I had was how fast they will hop up and go and especially when you don't really want it to, so say your having a nice wicked sidehill line, now the sled N/A I'm on and off the throttle lots, maybe some mid range throttle in the mix to lower throttle and wide open. With a turbo (again boost plays a role) It will want to probably drop the back end down deeper when your into the throttle due to how fast the track spins up., It may cause the sled to curve uphill because the back end washes out (had this happen lots) so now your going straight up the hill and probably get stuck Or it powers up it and or you can turn out of whats happened. OR if you can hold on through all that, It will eventually hop out of the sidehill line and plane out. Now you've lost the sidehill.

Playing around and all that it's fun, yeah going through the hills faster is fun, the wheelies fun, Knowing you can actually ride SLOWER through spots and picking lines better because you can pick up speed is nice instead of carrying momentum.


This last winter was the first winter for me on a stock n/a sled and I became so much better of a rider, and I mean A LOT, I've been sledding since a kid. It could be the mono rail too but the sled Is so predictable, so easy to lay over, I can sidehill along really easy, I've started to ride in the trees and or tighter trees now since the sled instills that confidence in me to do it. It's been a blast and riding in areas I wouldn't of touched before at all, Im pushing my abilities now. Honestly the best I've had sledding yet, 100% pull and go and just enjoy my day, not worried about bogging or all that other weird stuff that happens.

I find the sled goes pretty damn good, and that's where Im thinking to sell the kit and not turbo the sled at all, I don't want to ruin or make the sled into what I've had in the past, tuning issues you can fix on a fuel box, Or a ECM tune you can't modify so it is what it is...., All the parts breaking and wear and issues and down time and headaches.... I know these newer kits are way better... or so they say..... Yeah theres a few times I missed the turbo to get me through a few spots that I did get stuck up on, Or yeah I couldn't just make my way up a trail in 3ft powder or so in 1 go, Had to turn around and keep brute forcing it. But for 80% of my riding, I did not miss it one bit,


another concern for me is that the alpha tracks honestly don't hold up good enough. my track at 3k km and up til that was delaminating, shedding paddles, then it finally ripped its self for literally no visible reason, Scratchers always down, maybe 60-70k km down the trail. the track ain't cheap at all, I'm super disappointed in that but I'd bet with a turbo I would of only gotten 2k km on it instead.... Knock on wood of course.
 
I’m no way does a turbo make you a better rider. Will you be able to get more places.......sometimes. I have seen guys on a 600 school a guy on a turbo 8. Not many people can even ride a stock 800 to its full potential. But to each there own. Just my opinion
 
Thanks for the great reply. I have a 19 twin rail cat that has the silber N/A flash on it and it is fantastic. I just got the turbo bug when I rode my buddies alpha silber, 5# boost. It was a riot for the hr that i was on it.

I will run 4-5 # boost to keep it on pump gas, and it's honestly all I'll need. The thing that I'm looking forward to the most w/the turbo is the wheelies and on tap power w/out having to carry momentum while climbing or in the trees.

I'm hoping that w/the twin rail setup it will be much more predictable than w/a mono rail, especially w/the added HP.

Silber seems to have the bog figured out w/their latest flash, and I already have the cycles and sleds clutch kit, and will add the BOV and gauges to complete the package.

Riding in Northern Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, so should be good powder/snow for the turbo.

One of my buddies is thinking about staying stock on his new doo, so that's what made me start thinking about pros/cons of turbo.
 
Thanks for the great reply. I have a 19 twin rail cat that has the silber N/A flash on it and it is fantastic. I just got the turbo bug when I rode my buddies alpha silber, 5# boost. It was a riot for the hr that i was on it.

I will run 4-5 # boost to keep it on pump gas, and it's honestly all I'll need. The thing that I'm looking forward to the most w/the turbo is the wheelies and on tap power w/out having to carry momentum while climbing or in the trees.

I'm hoping that w/the twin rail setup it will be much more predictable than w/a mono rail, especially w/the added HP.

Silber seems to have the bog figured out w/their latest flash, and I already have the cycles and sleds clutch kit, and will add the BOV and gauges to complete the package.

Riding in Northern Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming, so should be good powder/snow for the turbo.

One of my buddies is thinking about staying stock on his new doo, so that's what made me start thinking about pros/cons of turbo.
Do yourself a favor if you haven't already take an AST course. Human nature is to become complacent it happens with anything, I have been effected by far to many avalanches that are completely avoidable. These sleds are a blast but i see guys or gals putting them selves at risk all the time and most don't even know it. The turbo sleds can put you in a risky situation very quickly much more so than a NA. The NA sleds are so good now they to can get where you need to be aware of what your riding into. I believe there is not a day you can't ride in the mountains but some days you just cant go on or near slopes. Ride safe everyone
 
Had a 900 kit on my 16 pc with 3" track for a few year and then put a silber turbo on my 19 twin rail. Half way into the season I sold the turbo. My takeaway was the turbo has a bit more top end but the placement of the weight in the chassis takes too much of the playfulness out of it. After a half day in deep tech terrain I was shot. So I traded my buddy with the stock 18 twin rail and the light playful was back and right then I knew the turbo was going down the road.
Rewind back to the 16 pc with the 900 this motor was the funest thing I have ridden in 20 years on the snow. The reason is the snap the throttle has in the low end was what you need to get the nose up and over stuff as where the turbo had to have a longer runway to make it happen. And when your in the trees and pinned up to a creek the turbo couldn't make it happen. The 900 also had the less weight in the front and added to the playfulness of the front end.
Last year I rode a 2020 alpha with all stock with a can and as said above a perfect balance! But this year I'm going back to a 900.
Cheers!
 
True about the added weight w/the turbo and possibly losing playfulness. Did you get the updated flash to help w/the bottom end bog?

Not to mention that the turbo kit all inclusive is about $4300. I've got the money to do it, and HP is expensive, but it's pricey for sure.

How did the power on the 900 compare to the turbo?
 
Turbos are super fun. Nothing like charging up a powder hill at 50mph with the skis in the air while the NA sleds barely break 30mph and poach you’re tracks to get over the top. It’ll never make you a better or worse rider. If you’re a good rider you can Ride anything, anywhere with finesse. I have a couple riding buddies who aren’t very experienced/good and they followed the trend and went turbo a couple years ago. They’re not any better or any worse on the turbo. They still sit and watch the rest of us ride the technical stuff and get stuck just as much. It’s fun for them to poke at wide open, non technical hills.
 
True about the added weight w/the turbo and possibly losing playfulness. Did you get the updated flash to help w/the bottom end bog?

Not to mention that the turbo kit all inclusive is about $4300. I've got the money to do it, and HP is expensive, but it's pricey for sure.

How did the power on the 900 compare to the turbo?
I had a few of the newer mapps but the bottom end still was not as clean as the poo or doo silber kits. the 900 was 3/4 the way between the stock and the turbo kit at 6 psi for power. We ride 6-10k in Idaho so for me the loss of playfulness was too large of a problem. With the 900 once it was tuned it never missed a beat. I much prefer the faster throttle on the bottom and more torque in the mid range over the peak boost power. more manageable in the trees. with a turbo you have to learn to run the throttle different. once you learn not to chop and pin and just roll out until you don't need more this helps keep it still some what spooled and not have to fight the lower end of getting it back on boost again.
 
I was starting to price out the big bore kit, but the bikeman kit + bolt on performer kit comes to $3500 anyways.

Talking to CNS, they said the BOV helps with the bottom and bog as well, so hopefully that's the case.
 
I was starting to price out the big bore kit, but the bikeman kit + bolt on performer kit comes to $3500 anyways.

Talking to CNS, they said the BOV helps with the bottom and bog as well, so hopefully that's the case.

So, in my experience, the big bore at least on the older m8's was a farce, they claim big hp but i call bs and the one we had sure didn't, it made it much more torquey lower end but beyond that... ate a ton of fuel, should of went turbo lol., If you do the math and assume ok at sea level the ctec 800 is ~162 hp. , so a 800 is 162 hp, and a 900 is a 12.5% increase in displacement. so doing the math your in *theory* 182.25 hp at sea level. It too suffers from elevation all the same, but lets pretend you don't loose that extra ~20hp at all due to any elevation, thats only 20 hp more.

Bikeman has a video/dyno run on their 900.. now interestingly they show 200 hp, who knows on the correction factors and all that there. it could very well be true. so you've gained 40 hp there, and deal with elevation, though my math will be wrong, say maybe at 6k feet your 30 hp extra? 30 hp is not too shabby for sure. but same price as a turbo kit? hmm.

Now keep in mind parts replacement, say you pop your top end, you have to pay some hefty $$$ for their special bored/ported cylinders and the pistons, At least a turbo your stock, you will find parts for it and much cheaper, it's not an issue 5 years from now or 10.

And a turbo you're guaranteed power, to a certain point it's said 1# = 10 hp. could be a bit more, and of course due to heat/effeciency stuff, it could be less. you'd only have to run ~ 3# of boost to get to what the big bore does, then maybe you want a bit more, turn it up to 5#, your not limited at all.

A bigger displacement will burn more fuel all the time across the board. Where as the turbo, yes it moves a bit more air but interestingly but when your lower rpm, cruising down the trail your not boosting so your pretty much stock, it usually increases the fuel mileage a tad in those scenarios. then when your playing the boost it sucks it back. My turbo polaris I had usually the same and or sometimes more fuel left in my tank than other pro rmk riders in my group at the end of the day lol.

turbo weight. Think of it this way.... Your removing like a 25# muffler and putting in a ~20# turbo setup back in its place, your stock weight.

And boost/spooling, these ball bearing turbo's have so little lag, like honestly it's more that clutching is bad/wrong,.. From a absolute stand still if the exhaust is cold, yeah maybe a second. If shes warmed up and been riding, Its as fast as you can open that throttle. AND if you're playing already on off the throttle, it is instant. the turbo's already spun out, even if you let off the throttle for a few seconds the turbo still has that momentum in there and it's ready to hit you hard when you open that throttle. A turbo does increase mid range and all that as well, as while its forcing/ driving more air in through the rpm ranges as you rev out.... its making more power. Thats where a lot of the time theres issues hitting the rev limiter, the clutching can't keep up and literally the engine revs out so fast it bounces off the limiter.

A BOV is very important and all kits should have them, It keeps the turbo spinning, Otherwise when you close the throttle its working against the air pressure/flow that literally is going no where so the compressor/turbo slows right down. Now if you have a BOV to dump all that air, the turbo will essentially free wheel and then slow down, so when your on off the throttle, It's ready to hammer you with all that air the engine wants, It's an instant throttle response.

Seriously just watch the turbo alpha/ctec videos, I can't find any lag,

If you go higher boost you have to change gearing, and then thats when you get a small amount of lag because you need the boost to be higher to create more hp to get the track spinning up to speed.
 
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Thanks again for the breakdown. I think I broke youtube watching so many videos on them.

Agree on the BOV being important, that's why I'm just going for the full setup. cycles and sleds has clutching figured out for these, and they're only 1 hr away from me, and FANTASTIC customer service!
 
turbo weight. Think of it this way.... Your removing like a 25# muffler and putting in a ~20# turbo setup back in its place, your stock weight.

.

I agree with most of what was in this text BUT one of my biggest complaints was not just the weight but the placement of the weight. It sits up higher than the factory can weight does and this makes the sled feel to fat and planted in the front end for me.
as for your buddys 900 not performing we have had turbos than do the same thing it happens.
with the 900 kit you just need the top end, pipe, clutch weights and reflash ecu all the other stuff is not needed.
you will have a blast on it. I did find mine at 6 psi and coming out of the parking lot would need 30% race gas to keep it of the det sensor at 5500' once over 6k it was fine. I did put a hullman manual boost controller and psi gauge on it.
 
you will have a blast on it. I did find mine at 6 psi and coming out of the parking lot would need 30% race gas to keep it of the det sensor at 5500' once over 6k it was fine. I did put a hullman manual boost controller and psi gauge on it.

might just run 10% AV gas just to be safe, but we normally ride 8-10K.
 
I have a 16’ M8 162 Speedwerx Stage 3 with TKI belt drive and perfectly dialed clutching. Also 19’ Hardcore 153 w/Siber at 6lbs boost & Silber clutching. The Stage 3 is crazy instant power love it. That said, Silber Turbo is an absolute monster And the stage 3 became a backup sled. Def a learning curve and can wear ya out but so much fun. The C-Tec loves boost. Both sleds are pull&go and have given me zero issues. I always run at least 2 gal per tank AV or race fuel In both sleds
 
I have a 16’ M8 162 Speedwerx Stage 3 with TKI belt drive and perfectly dialed clutching. Also 19’ Hardcore 153 w/Siber at 6lbs boost & Silber clutching. The Stage 3 is crazy instant power love it. That said, Silber Turbo is an absolute monster And the stage 3 became a backup sled. Def a learning curve and can wear ya out but so much fun. The C-Tec loves boost. Both sleds are pull&go and have given me zero issues. I always run at least 2 gal per tank AV or race fuel In both sleds

Thanks for the additional insight. Changed my workout routine for "turbo arms" lol.
 
Thanks for the additional insight. Changed my workout routine for "turbo arms" lol.
Average rider here at best and for me the turbo was by far the best thing to compliment my lack of abilities, age and poor health.
I don’t ride it much different then I did when it was naturally aspirated, but have far less apprehension riding places that formally seemed to make me nervous.
I formally rode a slightly modded 09 RMK 800 which in retrospect would have handed my 16 axys 800 it’s ass.
Adding the BD pump gas turbo changed that dramatically for me.
Everyone rides different and wants their own performance platform.

For me between the turbo and Indy Specialties turbo clutching I have gotten quite comfortable riding most anywhere I formally rode without the apprehension or nervousness.
Just my .02.
 
With 14 years of riding sleds and 3 on custom turbo kits and 2 production as well as lots of time on different turbo sleds on all brands. I can say a few things to elaborate on what others have done. The biggest thing a turbo plays into would be what type of rider and riding style as mentioned above.

Rider # 1: A guy who is fairly stable in riding ability and not striving to make big progress as a daily goal and more just riding and enjoying riding boost is absolutely amazing. It adds a ton of fun and a whole new dimension of power and capability to what can become a stagnant sport. The power is absolutely addicting and so much fun. The modern systems are also incredibly reliable and very easy to install and operate.

Rider #2: Guys are either fairly new or are constantly attempting to learn and push their abilities is where I can see turbo's being a hinderance in some instances. The balance of trying to learn how to ride as well as handle a more aggressive and powerful sled makes learning slower and more challenging. Since turbo systems also will also make more apparent holes in sled setup ( belt deflection, suspension etc) it can be easy to end up with an overall poorly configured sled to ride. This is not to say turbo systems don't work good, pretty much all of the modern 2 stroke systems are incredibly capable. The issue being the snowmobile was not designed around that level of power and the sled system as a whole can be poorly configured making for a more challenging riding experience. Also, if your not mechanically savy the turbo system introduces variables that many people are not suited to touch. This means a rider has a higher probability of making the sled overall less ideal to ride, making learning harder.

For Rider #2, spending the money on a weekend or two of clinics, or additional riding time IMO would be a better investment for progression. It takes a lot of rider skill to max out a current 800/850 class sled or even get close to using it to its ability.

For Rider #1, boost it! have fun and enjoy those turbo wheelies to the max.
 
With 14 years of riding sleds and 3 on custom turbo kits and 2 production as well as lots of time on different turbo sleds on all brands. I can say a few things to elaborate on what others have done. The biggest thing a turbo plays into would be what type of rider and riding style as mentioned above.

Rider # 1: A guy who is fairly stable in riding ability and not striving to make big progress as a daily goal and more just riding and enjoying riding boost is absolutely amazing. It adds a ton of fun and a whole new dimension of power and capability to what can become a stagnant sport. The power is absolutely addicting and so much fun. The modern systems are also incredibly reliable and very easy to install and operate.

Rider #2: Guys are either fairly new or are constantly attempting to learn and push their abilities is where I can see turbo's being a hinderance in some instances. The balance of trying to learn how to ride as well as handle a more aggressive and powerful sled makes learning slower and more challenging. Since turbo systems also will also make more apparent holes in sled setup ( belt deflection, suspension etc) it can be easy to end up with an overall poorly configured sled to ride. This is not to say turbo systems don't work good, pretty much all of the modern 2 stroke systems are incredibly capable. The issue being the snowmobile was not designed around that level of power and the sled system as a whole can be poorly configured making for a more challenging riding experience. Also, if your not mechanically savy the turbo system introduces variables that many people are not suited to touch. This means a rider has a higher probability of making the sled overall less ideal to ride, making learning harder.

For Rider #2, spending the money on a weekend or two of clinics, or additional riding time IMO would be a better investment for progression. It takes a lot of rider skill to max out a current 800/850 class sled or even get close to using it to its ability.

For Rider #1, boost it! have fun and enjoy those turbo wheelies to the max.


Thanks for the reply!

Yup, Rider #1, I just enjoying being out and addicted to wheelies and HP! A turbo'd sled is the only thing that can compare to my modified KTM RC8 when I spent time at the track.

Mechanically savvy so that's not what I'm worried about either, but yes they can be a complicated system for someone who can't wrench.

Thinking about hitting up Tracked Out Adventures for a clinic, and just for some amazing riding in places I don't know about in the Uintahs here in Utah.
 
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