Their Mistakes????Give your head a shake. When oil jumped to 150 bucks a barrell, all of a sudden domestic vehicles weren't good enough anymore. Now that it's 40 bucsk a barrel, I will drive my GM/Ford/Dodge truck and I hope the oil speculators that did all this crap eat $hit and die. What do U drive Sawyer???An Austin Mini??
Keep this in mind regarding the big 3...........
- Thread starter Mafesto
- Start date
Their Mistakes????Give your head a shake. When oil jumped to 150 bucks a barrell, all of a sudden domestic vehicles weren't good enough anymore. Now that it's 40 bucsk a barrel, I will drive my GM/Ford/Dodge truck and I hope the oil speculators that did all this crap eat $hit and die. What do U drive Sawyer???An Austin Mini??
GM is leading the way in alternative fuel vehicles. Are you all going to sell your hauler trucks and start driving a hybrid Malibu or Prius? No one is buying the Malibu Hybrid now that the price of gas is closer to where it's supposed to be before the speculators got ahold of the price. we just went through a huge dump of snow in 24 hours and you couldn't get around in a POS car. They all got great gas mileage that day. They were parked or sitting in a ditch somewhere while my 1 ton Diesel crew cab long box plowed through to get my wife and myself to work and my kids to school. Not everyone everywhere can live with a car.
I'm not talking just about oil. I never said they weren't good enough, IMO they are much better than 4n's. An no I drive a dodge.
This has been a long time coming before the gas prices. So are you saying that 4-5 months of high gas cripples theses sompanies? That's the mistake right there. They don't plan far enough ahead to compensate for that? They waste millions if not billions a year in stupid crap. And then turn around and want money because the price of oil was high? Well guess what, I want some more to cause I paid those high prices but I sure as hell can't have any.
Where do I start. Name me one major manufacturer, Boeing, Big Three, GE etc or Major Wall street firm that operates with Illegal aliens. The big three problems are traceable to government intervention and ehorbatant union benis. Only the government can create monopolies. I won't even address the raping the land bull**** as I do not have enough time in this response and you obviously have not been involved with the companies you are condeming enough to argue the point. Your last point is the most clear enunciation of your political and economic views, you would make a great Pelosi or Franken or Teddy Bear Kennedy as your rhetoric is identical to the liberal politicians especially within the democratic leadership, "The american people are to ignorant to make their own decisions in life so we will make the decisions for them" Such arrogance isw sickening I would trust 200 million americans to make decisions for me before 1 democratic politician, or liberal republican.
Swampy
Swampy
Dang ruffy it wont let me give you anymore negative points for a while.... what an azzhat....
funny thing, a company operates privately and tries to build the best product, offer the best service, have the best reputation....be the best.
a company goes public.....now its all about how can we cheapen (yes I mean cheapen, not streamline) production, shave quality...anything to make the numbers look good so investors will be happy.
greed can't feed itself forever. the dinner bell has rang.
STOP GIVING AWAY MY MONEY!!!!!!!
I hate what is going on. I have tons of family in michigan that survive, well used to, from GM. they hate it too, but we as a country can't just start giving loans to select companies. the country would be better off to offer loans to its citizens and request that the money be spent in this country......cause the banks sure as hell are not giving it out.....they get $$ for 1% and turn it to you for 5.5%.......*** them too.
again, why are we feeding the greedy?
why are we giving $$ to the ones that are supposed to be "experts" on $$?
we are screwed.
this country needs to go back in time, knuckle justice. pride. responsibility. mentorship. the only place you find these is in a history book. it makes me sick.
if our gov't would open up its own gas stations selling its own oil for a fair price we could get a grip on inflation in a hurry. how novel would that be, returning $$ to our own country for our own goods.......wierd.
a company goes public.....now its all about how can we cheapen (yes I mean cheapen, not streamline) production, shave quality...anything to make the numbers look good so investors will be happy.
greed can't feed itself forever. the dinner bell has rang.
STOP GIVING AWAY MY MONEY!!!!!!!
I hate what is going on. I have tons of family in michigan that survive, well used to, from GM. they hate it too, but we as a country can't just start giving loans to select companies. the country would be better off to offer loans to its citizens and request that the money be spent in this country......cause the banks sure as hell are not giving it out.....they get $$ for 1% and turn it to you for 5.5%.......*** them too.
again, why are we feeding the greedy?
why are we giving $$ to the ones that are supposed to be "experts" on $$?
we are screwed.
this country needs to go back in time, knuckle justice. pride. responsibility. mentorship. the only place you find these is in a history book. it makes me sick.
if our gov't would open up its own gas stations selling its own oil for a fair price we could get a grip on inflation in a hurry. how novel would that be, returning $$ to our own country for our own goods.......wierd.
Labor unions have killed the US car companies, 2000 to 3000 dollars from every car GM sells goes to pay benefits for retired employees, the ones that are still working make 40 to 60 dollars an hour including benefits while the import factories in the US pay less than half of that.
I was talking in general terms about the negatives of capitalism, not specific to the big three... You are right they probably don't hire illegals.... though to say that none work in the auto industry period would be a lie... Correct that the other points are not valid for the big three...well maybe not. I know Toyata's new plant in OK or where ever is pretty state of the art when it comes to green technologies, and I think GM and Ford are getting there or are there already...
It is not sickening.... you just don't want to face the facts... We make societal choices everyday with our dollars (it is the largest means of making change in the world, and yet we do it so carelessly) , and they have huge impacts on the US, and a lot of times we hurt ourselves..
Look at all the crap we buy from China. Those are financial decisions. We buy lots from abroad and buy little from home and wonder where the jobs are......
I can give you a list of how we as a US screw ourselves every day by our financial decisions. I would suggest that you think about it a little, and see if you changed your decision process to not what is cheapest, but to what benefits the US the most, and how you and the US would be effected.
A great example is organic food. Most of the times it is locally grown, locally picked, shipped locally, and consumed locally. All benefiting the local economy that you are a part of. What if the same could be said for most things that are purchased?
Your dollar has a march larger impact on the world then many people believe... and capitalism doesn't take into account (financially with respect to price...) all the costs (societal and environmental) or a specific product.
Open your eyes dude.... You think you are arguing black and white here... I am not. Capitalism is great, but it has its shortcomings. Socialism is great, but it has its shortcomings. As with most things, the solution is somewhere in between, I am trying to show you why.....
It is not sickening.... you just don't want to face the facts... We make societal choices everyday with our dollars (it is the largest means of making change in the world, and yet we do it so carelessly) , and they have huge impacts on the US, and a lot of times we hurt ourselves..
Look at all the crap we buy from China. Those are financial decisions. We buy lots from abroad and buy little from home and wonder where the jobs are......
I can give you a list of how we as a US screw ourselves every day by our financial decisions. I would suggest that you think about it a little, and see if you changed your decision process to not what is cheapest, but to what benefits the US the most, and how you and the US would be effected.
A great example is organic food. Most of the times it is locally grown, locally picked, shipped locally, and consumed locally. All benefiting the local economy that you are a part of. What if the same could be said for most things that are purchased?
Your dollar has a march larger impact on the world then many people believe... and capitalism doesn't take into account (financially with respect to price...) all the costs (societal and environmental) or a specific product.
Open your eyes dude.... You think you are arguing black and white here... I am not. Capitalism is great, but it has its shortcomings. Socialism is great, but it has its shortcomings. As with most things, the solution is somewhere in between, I am trying to show you why.....
D
DOO DAWG
Well-known member
Well it's nice to know your so educated you can determine whether we are spending our own money properly, must be according to your directives to be proper, what an arrogant moron and typical liberal idiot. The capitalist free market is achieved by thousands of people making individual buying decisions daily and determines which suppliers survive because they supply what the people want, whether or not you approve. Capitalism thrives everywhere it is tried, socialism doesn't wherever it is tried. Why is the US the major power in the world ? Because it is the only capitalist and free nation. By the way I stated in an earlier post I own no vehicles that do not have the bowtie on them. I have never shopped in a Wallmart, I never buy at LOWES if I can get the item at the local independant retailer. Socialism is not great it is just you have been brainwashed in scrool or have an intense desire to bring down entreprenaurs to your level, why not work hard and move up to their level?
My eyes have been open wide fore 65 years and the solution is nowhere between socialism and capitalism. Swampy
My eyes have been open wide fore 65 years and the solution is nowhere between socialism and capitalism. Swampy
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Are you sure that the fact that retirees receive 75% of their wage at retirement for life, or the fact if they get laid off they receive 75% of their salary for the next two years. I talked with a retiree who worke 20 years at GM and has received his retirement so far for 25 years, what a racket, even he thought it was rediculous but loved the money. Swampy
Don't forget... Ruffy knows everything
For a guy fresh out of liberal college and still a little wet behind the ears...once again he is showing us how little he really knows.
You don't have a frickin' clue what you're talking about. Glad to see what 4 years of higher education is like now.
There is a difference between what you are taught and what you learn....
Try building a sucessful business. Pay the taxes. Adjust to customer trends.
Then get back to me.
I've got an idea, maybe I should ask the feds how to run my business since they do so well at running everything else.....
Comment on something you know about.
For a guy fresh out of liberal college and still a little wet behind the ears...once again he is showing us how little he really knows.
You don't have a frickin' clue what you're talking about. Glad to see what 4 years of higher education is like now.
There is a difference between what you are taught and what you learn....
Try building a sucessful business. Pay the taxes. Adjust to customer trends.
Then get back to me.
I've got an idea, maybe I should ask the feds how to run my business since they do so well at running everything else.....
Comment on something you know about.
Swampy,
If you think we live in a capitalist society your definitions are grossly inaccurate... I don't think there is a capitalist society anywhere in the world, definitely not any large countries.... they are all someplace in between.. How is the feel good argument going?
How do people make their choices? Mostly just by the dollar amount. Your statement above is true, but I would say that the cost of a product does not represent the true cost to a society... this is where capitalism / markets start to break down.
You make the example that you buy bowtie and that you don't shop at walmart... Well you are not the average, you are the exception. I think the average American DOES shop at Walmart! Anyways, the ramifications of where we spend our dollars seems to have very limited impact on how we spend them.....
It is interesting how you seem to only view the difference between capitalism and socialism from the individual perspective and not the societal or rather country as a whole perspective....
If you think we live in a capitalist society your definitions are grossly inaccurate... I don't think there is a capitalist society anywhere in the world, definitely not any large countries.... they are all someplace in between.. How is the feel good argument going?
How do people make their choices? Mostly just by the dollar amount. Your statement above is true, but I would say that the cost of a product does not represent the true cost to a society... this is where capitalism / markets start to break down.
You make the example that you buy bowtie and that you don't shop at walmart... Well you are not the average, you are the exception. I think the average American DOES shop at Walmart! Anyways, the ramifications of where we spend our dollars seems to have very limited impact on how we spend them.....
It is interesting how you seem to only view the difference between capitalism and socialism from the individual perspective and not the societal or rather country as a whole perspective....
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How about you use those big lips to actually argue a point for once.. Though, it is nice to know that I have a fan.....
Breaking out the eye roll again... just for you!
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J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
This post is dead on
Examples of people not spending their money correctly...
Food.. So what is it now, 50% of children are overweight or some such crazy number? 30% of adults?
Seems that a large part of the problem besides lack of exercise / outdoor activities is the food we consume. A lot of times this is a financial decision as well as a time management decision.
So there are tons of people buying crappy food and being fat. At what point is it societies role to mitigate this problem. I mean, I am not fat, I don't have a problem, I really don't like the fact that the cost of being unhealthy has a cost to society that I am paying for... When personal responsibility no longer is enough or fails to be adequate, something else must take control.
I find it interesting that many people don't have a problem with the government telling you what to do... Like how fast to drive, rules to obey and such.. but when it comes to spending money, the government should not have any role, even though the consequences can sometimes be much worse then the rules that the government dictates.
Food.. So what is it now, 50% of children are overweight or some such crazy number? 30% of adults?
Seems that a large part of the problem besides lack of exercise / outdoor activities is the food we consume. A lot of times this is a financial decision as well as a time management decision.
So there are tons of people buying crappy food and being fat. At what point is it societies role to mitigate this problem. I mean, I am not fat, I don't have a problem, I really don't like the fact that the cost of being unhealthy has a cost to society that I am paying for... When personal responsibility no longer is enough or fails to be adequate, something else must take control.
I find it interesting that many people don't have a problem with the government telling you what to do... Like how fast to drive, rules to obey and such.. but when it comes to spending money, the government should not have any role, even though the consequences can sometimes be much worse then the rules that the government dictates.
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J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
Ya, mistakes. Lets take a look....
Product mistakes:
- WAY too many niche cars. They sell well for 6 months, then they clog up the lots for another year or 2, then they're taken out back and shot. SSR, HHR, PT Cruiser, Challenger, Charger, Thunderbird, the list goes on.
- Too many name changes....people can't keep up. I work with cars everyday and couldn't tell you all the models in any of the big 3's lineup right now. These new models come and go in a year or 2; consumers fear change. What's Toyota's mid-sized car....I'll bet my left nut everyone of you knows it's the Camry. What's Ford's? The Taurus? The 500? The Fusion?
- Multiple brand in one house. Mercury/Ford, GM/Chevy/Pontiac/Buick, etc. Why build the same thing 2 or 3 times? The days of this being a money-maker were gone 30 years ago....
- Not enough push on fuel efficient models.
Marketing/business mistakes:
- Union benefit/wages/retirement packages. They got carried away 15 years ago and instead of capping it, it got worse!
- Over-whoring out to fleet business at minimal profit. Wanna know why the resale sucks? That's why.
- Incentives. Everyone used to sell vehicles without 0%, huge cashback, etc. Beating the other guy by undercutting is short-term planning.
- Too late on the quality boat, it has improved greatly, but the generally out-of-tune average customer is already driving his Japanese car with no good reason to go back.
Look at Cargill, they did it right and are now being blamed for lots of things....mainly higher food prices. They just were smart and had long term wealth, not next week.
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