just curious, this guys sleds?

[plumnuts]

wow... I HATE even defending a little of Steve's remarks... Yesterday I was up in an area that has a little drop on it and I looked at it really hard and was thinking... "LETS GO!" but my knees were saying "no way"... a few years ago I would have hit it... same back in the day when snocross went from teeth loosening rough courses to "air time" so that sponsors and the public would come (read $$$)... where before there was a few injuries (usually not too bad) in the ninties and now we the big air crashes that people did not walk away from.

It even goes with the sled videos... now it is bigger drops, bigger air, impossible climbs... and the injuries and deaths have started...

Sure it is everyone's choice... and I am okay with someone to climb something stupid (anyone who knows me will tell you a few years ago I was either a star or yard sale my sled)... I am big on personal choice when it comes to sports... but along with the choice... I turned off ESPN's X-games and it has been several years since I bought a sled video... so my choice is... yea doing a backward flip is cool but seeing some kid trashed is not my idea of entertainment....

 

[Trackpoucher]

Didn't he get some flack for leaving peopl behind or something like that years ago?

I remember that. He was bragging about leaving newby's to fend for themselves. He even went as far as leaving them to find there way back to the truck then ridiculed them on his white out and wide open article. Now he does this! "whos to blame" Really?

 

[Jorli]

I'm going a bit off topic here, but I will comment on the film scene and how things really go down in the big mountain world. Technical riding features can usually be filmed in a few days, big mountain riding features take an entire season of filming for a rider to get 5 minutes of finished content. Whether talking about Fourcast 1 & 2 or Slednecks 13 & 14 (which I was involved with), I don't think people really understand the amount of effort put into creating the scenes they see, unfortunately often the film doesn't do the action justice, but as a rider and producer, I definitely see a lot of misconceptions people have about what we do.

I've often heard people say: "A chitty day on the mountain is better than the best day at work." Well, as we all get older, you come to realize that there is nothing "fun" about being on a film shoot, its work; hard, scary and very stressful work. To ride to the standard that is expected of you, you have to ride way above your comfort level and the only time its fun is after you have successfully pulled off a big line. Most often, if its big and consequential, its very rare that we'll do things more than once as there is no need to expose yourself to unnecessary risk. We'll also do everything we can to mitigate the risks and really try to pick things out that line up properly. When people watch sled movies, it definitely doesn't paint an accurate picture of what anyone of those guy's average day of riding is like. Riding days are fun, film days are very focused, and the way things are going, any rider is lucky to produce more than 2 usable shots per day. Its amazing how exhausted you feel after maybe only putting yourself through 1 minute of truly intense riding during the entire day. It takes a lot of time to set things up and get the stars aligned. Anyone involved on this side does it because they are driven from within to do it. We try to watch each other's six and keep things in check, however occasionally the nature of the activity bites back regardless of what precautions and preparations are taken. This is exactly the same phenomenon that occurs in every action sport. At the top level of any action sport, many of the accidents are the result of rider error, as most of the environmental factors have been eliminated.

 

[89sandman]

you go big, sometimes you don't go home. don't think any of the guys who do this don't realize this and accept it as part of the deal. do i feel bad when it happens, yes. do i live in a bubble and expect it to never happen, no. is anyone holding a gun to these guys heads and making them do this like the gladiators, no. so if your prepared to accept the glory you'd better be prepared to accept the gory...

 

[backcountryislife]

Well said Jorli...

I'm not saying guys don't step up, but I don't blame Jorli for someone who gets hurt on a filming day, so in that context I find it hard to blame ESPN for someone getting hurt in the X games UNLESS they did something legitimately negligent.

 

[Nate]

I wrote it. Little disappointed at the feedback lately.

 

[xrated]

I can see where ESPN pushes people and should/could shoulder some blame. Especially when a quick search got these
http://www.sourceinnovations.ca/

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169545&highlight=tethair

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156577&highlight=tethair


Hell read Pastranas book, he comes right out and say he wasn't feeling the double but felt pressure to do it with how much hype ESPN threw at it.

I also see where ESPN needs to be more stringent on who gets to ride. Again look at FMX, there was no reason that Scott moron from MI should have been riding but because he landed a double once ESPN kept putting him on.

Same thing this year. ESPN let guys who while skilled athletes compete on sleds when they aren't really sled riders. Could Jacko do good on a sled? Yep but it was obvious even to my wife that he had no business being on a sled with so little time on it. And the Moore brothers are quad riders....how much time do they spend on a sled outside of practicing for X?

All the same everyone still decides for themselves what they are willing to try.

 

[Jorli]

Well said Jorli...

I'm not saying guys don't step up, but I don't blame Jorli for someone who gets hurt on a filming day, so in that context I find it hard to blame ESPN for someone getting hurt in the X games UNLESS they did something legitimately negligent.

Thanks man, its never polite to discourage people from their ambitions, but its an unspoken code that whether its filmers, event holders or even other riders, anyone around should contribute insight and not be afraid to say something even things aren't 100% perfect. We all make mistakes, myself included, we have become desensitized after having a good run for while and feel that the margin for error is perhaps greater than it really is.

As for ESPN, my sister was at X when Levi did his double, she said she felt terrible for him as they put such a massive amount of pressure on him to pull it. I can understand they put a lot of money into making the show happen and need an outstanding stunt every year to keep their brand a float. Sadly the event doesn't represent what snowmobiling is all about. Its pretty much a battle of the energy drinks in nothing more than a circus event. When I think of freestyle snowmobiling, its definitely incredible what those guys do, however its like one of those obscure Olympic sports where everyone that participates in the sport is a competitor at the event. I wish the industry would understand that snowmobiling is not a spectator friendly sport, its done in small groups of friends in the middle of nowhere and they need to rethink their marketing around the reality of what the experience truly is. Just my thoughts.

 

[Goin For Snow]

Dont like the pressure find a different career.

The pressure to produce is with most jobs, but they could have fatal results if they fail. Again no one is forced to do any of this. She felt bad for Levi? If he didnt like the pressure, tell them to forget it and move on.

 

[backcountryislife]

Dont like the pressure find a different career.

The pressure to produce is with most jobs, but they could have fatal results if they fail. Again no one is forced to do any of this. She felt bad for Levi? If he didnt like the pressure, tell them to forget it and move on.

obviously it's not as black & white as we'd like it to be... but I agree, don't want to do it, then don't. Want to be considered one of the best in the world at ANYTHING... there WILL be pressure. Being a professional athlete is still a job.

 

[phatty]

At the top level of any action sport, many of the accidents are the result of rider error, as most of the environmental factors have been eliminated.

Well said jorli! Plain and simple: Moore's wreck was Moore's fault. Sad deal that it cost him his life and his family alot of heartache and suffering.

Negligence on X games part happened when they didn't have a solid fence to prevent a run away sled into the crowd. For that they deserve blame. better safety fence, get air tethers, motor kill switches, something. That could have been prevented IMO.

What X games cannot do or get blamed for is rider error.

as for video... take the very best powder days with the bluest skies and stand around all day trying to get a few shots, leaving everything else untracked untouched. thats how fun filming is, reason why most people who go riding with film guys, never want to go riding with us again, its boring.

 

[Blown Motor]

Agree to Disagree

No worries agreeing to disagree, I love seeing other peoples thoughts on this. My point wasn't that we don't take risks and go big in the backcountry, we do, and we understand that. My point is that we are enthusiasts of the sport, guys who live and breath snow, understand the risks and in's and out's 100% Not just out there for sh*ts and giggles to get recognition. Fact of the matter is that neither the Moore boys or Jacko have any business competing in a sport they practice 1 month on the snow for, and then put it away until the following year to be back on TV and gain more recognition. Ruins the name of the sport, especially when something tragic happens like this year. Now all you hear is snowmobile freestyle is SOOOO CRAZY and DANGEROUS, we get people talking about it in our store daily now. Even talk of taking best trick and freestyle out of XGames next year already....Fact is, neither of those three are snowmobilers. Period. But they have influenced our sport forever. And that choice was made by ESPN to let them compete, and therefor generate money because they knew they would go big, and up the enthusiasm of the games.

And yes I GUARANTEE you that those guys you named go bigger if they are performing for ESPN in a primetime tv spot with millions viewing, rather than shooting for a backcountry movie that sells 10k copies tops.

I agree we all make our own decisions, we all make mistakes, and we should hold ourselves accountable. But stupid decisions should not be made worthwhile or easier because of media and sponsors.

 

[snowmobiler]

if you started riding yesterday,your a snowmobiler.

 

[PJ-Hunter]

Well said Phatty and Blown Motor.