increase registration fees on snowmobiles

[AkSummit]

What's the .45 got to do with anything but tough talk?

There are plenty of trail grants being utilized by the 1:1 funding we pay to the State of Alaska. Maybe not in your area but they are very visible and used in "my area."


I believe the Moose Access Trail (big swath of clearing, that is groomed to help moose avoid the Highway) that goes from Willow to Trapper Creek is but one of them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Then there is the very well mainitained Chulitna Bluffs Trail.

I beleive the new signange that appered last year in Petersville is from this. (once again, if I'm wrong.....)

And also the mega trail from Big Lake to Denali Park that just opened is a fruit from this tree.

1:1 funding is almost unheard of in any goverment program. 100% of your registration fees do go to Snowmobile only, related activities. (Grants, PSA's, education, grooming, trail designation/declaration)

It does not get much better than this.

Again, I ride a heck of alot, all over the state, I'm not all that picky but can recognize when something is missing, and I've yet to see something glaringly absent from Valdez to Paxson.

And just imagine what could be done with more money. And how much are we talking here really, $20.00 per sled currently?

Have you ever calculated your dollars spent, per miles ridden (DSPMR) for a season? This is but a drop in the bucket for most.

And come on, who wouldn't want to sport the trendy, reflective sticker anyway?

DSPMS/S


"Dollars Spent Per Miles Skied/Snowboarded

Fair is Fair

 

[kev_alaska]

Registration fees

Sorry I got in here late. I have a couple points that may help the discussion.

The Point of Sale Registration program has been steadily getting better for the past few years. There was a few years where it was a typical disfunctional government program. Initially the program was staffed and filled with real live snowmobilers who put the money directly on the ground. The state began to interfere with the grant process to the point that it was more of a pain in the neck than it was worth. At that time the beauracracy had made it almost impossible to obtain a grant with sustainable criteria.

We (ASSA)began the process of pushing for more and better representation and more direct funding of real trail programs. Less paperwork for volunteer(which all of us are) organizations to deal with was a primary goal. The Grooming Pool was the direct result of that advocacy. Money left over from the grant applicant pool was placed into a grooming pool that was directed in areas of the state that had established trails. While the moose trails mentioned are not a part of this project the ones listed here are. http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/grants/groompl.htm

The program is certainly not perfect, but it is getting better with each cycle. The trails listed are ones in the most traveled areas. They are also the ones with the most active trail and grooming groups. I hope that an increased pool of money will be taken advantage of by groups that, to this point, are not involved. Paxton to Valdez is a perfect example.

Lots of information available. HardcoreAK is correct on some points. His miss is that the problems he is talking about are National Forest Plans and have nothing to do with the State of Alaska.

The current registration is $5 per year. The proposed increase is just now to $20 per year. This increase proposal is tied to increased transparency and coordination between the State of Alaska (DNR) the Sno-Trac Board and the ASSA. The ASSA is representing each of our member clubs statewide and has taken input for several seasons on this subject.

Kevin Hite
Alaska State Snowmobile Association

 

[theultrarider]

Thanks kevin for the education. Thank you as well for all your hard work and the endless hours that you volunteer to help keep us all riding on legal trails and groomed ons as well. I know it can be a thankless job at times.

 

[CATillak]

IF they advertised weight loss and power gains for the "trendy reflective sticker" then i would bet more people would get them, like MYSELF!

 

[AkSledHed]

Share the burden of cost to ALL users and I have no problem with the increase, until then they need to leave it alone. This is no different than buying a hunting license in which monies go to help maintain game populations and improve habitat yet hikers, backcountry travelers, wildlife and bird watchers pay no such fee's to participate in their activities. Again, share the burden of cost amongst all users and fee/license/registration increases wouldn't get such a negative reaction.

 

[ak49er]

So, in the summer after all the snow is gone, the wife and I ride our mtn. bikes all over the same areas we sled in the winter. Hatchers, Petersville, Sutton, Puritan Creek, Sometimes we hike too. We buy the fancy 40.00 yearly ticket so we can park in ALL the state parks in Alaska. I believe if you look on these hikers, bikers, strollers and berry pickers, vehicles for a sticker, you may find the sticker that proves that some do pay their dues. We would support a slight increase for this sticker as well. At Hatchers they pay to park, if they don't have stickers, sounds like the main issue of freeloaders would be with the non-motorized users in and around Turnagain?

 

[theultrarider]

So, in the summer after all the snow is gone, the wife and I ride our mtn. bikes all over the same areas we sled in the winter. Hatchers, Petersville, Sutton, Puritan Creek, Sometimes we hike too. We buy the fancy 40.00 yearly ticket so we can park in ALL the state parks in Alaska. I believe if you look on these hikers, bikers, strollers and berry pickers, vehicles for a sticker, you may find the sticker that proves that some do pay their dues. We would support a slight increase for this sticker as well. At Hatchers they pay to park, if they don't have stickers, sounds like the main issue of freeloaders would be with the non-motorized users in and around Turnagain?

The area in and around here is the jurisdiction of Chugach national forest and not Alaska state parks. We have next to no Ak state park lands here on the Kenai other than some campgrounds on the lakes and rivers. No riding/hiking areas.

 

[Chena]

Aug 2008 SnowTrac meeting minutes, read

<quote>
Morrison: Question if State Trails plan includes snow machine trails
Luck: Not yet, will develop for this
<end quote>

If they are working on a State Trails Plan and DNR is involved, why isn't snowmachine trails on there after all these years !! DNR oversees SnowTrac, this is another reason not to provide DNR any more funds from snowmachiners.


SnoTrack funds non-motorized trails as well, so as *AkSummit said, let other trail users pay up before increasing our cost.

Agree with the comment that $20.00 a year is minimal, but at what
point do we say enough is enough and that other trail users need to
add their financial support. $20.00, $50.00, $100.00 ?

A questionnaire at an event that mainly consist of Anchorage folks
does "not" represent the whole state, why hasn't ASSA or SnoTrac
mailed out questionnaires to all the clubs asking them their thoughts
and opinions on the fee increases. Are they afraid of what the real
response might be to any kind of increase with the financial support
of other trail users ? Calls to 6 clubs outside Anchorage revealed
that "none" of them were contacted on this.

Currently SnoTrac has a $200,000.00 to $250,000.00 annual budget and
thinking that the state is going to give more to them simply because
the registration fee is increased is naive. First get the state to
agree to increase SnoTrac's budget then consider increasing
registration. The budget expenditure increase could be worded as such
that the actual budget funding would be based on the registration fee
increase. Otherwise we may see any addition registration fee's going
to support the state in general and not SnoTrac.

And if the other trail users were required to pay up, as Mt-Adams
said, then there may be No Need to increase registration until such a
time as the state gets more designated trails to use the funds on.

 

[AKkatz]

Sorry I got in here late. I have a couple points that may help the discussion.

The Point of Sale Registration program has been steadily getting better for the past few years. There was a few years where it was a typical disfunctional government program. Initially the program was staffed and filled with real live snowmobilers who put the money directly on the ground. The state began to interfere with the grant process to the point that it was more of a pain in the neck than it was worth. At that time the beauracracy had made it almost impossible to obtain a grant with sustainable criteria.

We (ASSA)began the process of pushing for more and better representation and more direct funding of real trail programs. Less paperwork for volunteer(which all of us are) organizations to deal with was a primary goal. The Grooming Pool was the direct result of that advocacy. Money left over from the grant applicant pool was placed into a grooming pool that was directed in areas of the state that had established trails. While the moose trails mentioned are not a part of this project the ones listed here are. http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/grants/groompl.htm

The program is certainly not perfect, but it is getting better with each cycle. The trails listed are ones in the most traveled areas. They are also the ones with the most active trail and grooming groups. I hope that an increased pool of money will be taken advantage of by groups that, to this point, are not involved. Paxton to Valdez is a perfect example.

Lots of information available. HardcoreAK is correct on some points. His miss is that the problems he is talking about are National Forest Plans and have nothing to do with the State of Alaska.

The current registration is $5 per year. The proposed increase is just now to $20 per year. This increase proposal is tied to increased transparency and coordination between the State of Alaska (DNR) the Sno-Trac Board and the ASSA. The ASSA is representing each of our member clubs statewide and has taken input for several seasons on this subject.

Kevin Hite
Alaska State Snowmobile Association

I would be glad to pay/donate yearly to support staff who can assist in keeping areas open for motorized use.

 

[MYTOYS]

I don't mind the increase, this is the price you pay to enjoy a sport we all love dearly. You can compare this to fishing, pay for the fuel, snacks and the costly docking fees that go up every year. I'm sure some of you guys have a boat and pay the outragous fees associated with docking your boat at the harbor every year. Anyways, if the fee increase goes towards something we as snowmachiners can see and apprciate and take advantage of then I'm all for it. But they should spread the cost of fees to skiers and snowboarders.

If you want to play, you have to pay.

 

[Puff_N_AK]

If they increase the annual fee, i will not re register my sled. All for one, one for all. Until they start charging and harrassing the non motorized users as they do Sledders, i will not contribute a single penny. It was fair at 10 bucks, but to double the cost and not try and pull on cent out of the non motorized users is basically hwy robbery.

 

[Chena]

Quote From Fairbanks Snow Travelers 4/16/09
"For those that didn't make the meeting last night and a reminder for those that did.....I received an email yesterday that was sent out in regards to the increase in reg fees. The draft being proposed at this time would raise the current registration fees to $40 for two years. It is more important than ever to let our reps know how we feel about this, even though it may not make it to or through the legislature this session. If we don't let these people know now, we will pay for it later. We will have to continue letting them know that we do not support this increase and the time to start is now".
DNR smells the money ($40) they have proposed to the state Legislature a increase beyond what ASSA wants($20) for 2 year ATV registration fee so time to email that state Representative.
http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_com_info.asp?comm=SFIN&session=25
http://housemajority.org/coms/index.php?c=2

 

[mit]

It doesn't need increased it needs to

Be Abolished!!!!!

This Tax is a joke! If you want to ride on a groomed trail then you pay for it; some one in Barrow shouldn't be paying for trails in Anchorage! Mr. Alaska snow machine man you are out of line, if you want to represent your self as a state wide organization you best get out to the rest of the state and listening to what people have to say.

 

[bgreen776]

Be Abolished!!!!!

This Tax is a joke! If you want to ride on a groomed trail then you pay for it; some one in Barrow shouldn't be paying for trails in Anchorage!

I agree 100%

 

[Chena]

More Quotes off Fairbanks club site


"It's not an agency per sa. ASSA drafted the legistration and is trying to get a state legislature to sponsor it on the legislative floor.

Again, our best efforts are to contact our representatives and inform them of our disagreement in this type of legislation to increase the registration fees.

As noted last night, as it currently stands, DNR can only accept $200,000.00 for SnoTrac, but an increase to $40.00 annual would generate approximately $1.2 mil. So in short, all we'd be doing is giving the state more of our $ to the general fund with no current means to see those funds used for trails.

I re-read Mike Kelly's comments above and although his thoughts may be in the right place i.e increasing DNR's authority to spend more on SnoTrac, DMV currently collects $265,000.00 in registration fees, but SnoTrac can only receive $199,999.00 of it. So in essence, were already giving the state an additional $65,000.00... enough I say !

Now, if the SnoTrac can get it raised to say $500,000.00 a year and we "motorized trail users" were guaranteed a minimum of 50% of those funds, then I might be open to supporting some kind of increase. But don't ask me to give the gov't more money on a "Trust us we'll get more trails done" verbal comment with no written guarantee except to fund the states general fund, and add to this that 2/3's or so of what they now collect goes to "non-motorized" trail users.

No way !"

Quote From Fairbanks Snow Travelers 4/16/09
"For those that didn't make the meeting last night and a reminder for those that did.....I received an email yesterday that was sent out in regards to the increase in reg fees. The draft being proposed at this time would raise the current registration fees to $40 for two years. It is more important than ever to let our reps know how we feel about this, even though it may not make it to or through the legislature this session. If we don't let these people know now, we will pay for it later. We will have to continue letting them know that we do not support this increase and the time to start is now".
DNR smells the money ($40) they have proposed to the state Legislature a increase beyond what ASSA wants($20) for 2 year ATV registration fee so time to email that state Representative.
http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_com_info.asp?comm=SFIN&session=25
http://housemajority.org/coms/index.php?c=2

 

[COS]

ASSA & Kevin Hite is out of line!

Who is Kevin Hite? Alaska State Snowmobile Association (ASSA) president.
Kevin sent a letter to Palin asking to INCREASE the snowmobile registration fee. Why? He feels the fees charged are now better managed and he sees a difference.
He published this in the October 2007 ASSA newsletter pages 4 & 17. The end of the article is this "I would like to inform you that ASSA is going to be approaching several of our legislative contacts to advocate the increasing of yearly fees."
I am a member of two snowmachine clubs and we were never asked by ASSA how we felt about this topic. In fact I contacted the presidents of the following clubs and asked if Kevin or ASSA contacted them about an increase in registration. No one had been asked.
Northern lights snow mobile club (Eielson)
Lake Louise Snowmachine Club
Resurrection Snow Riders (Seward)
Snowmads of Homer & Anchor point
Valdez Snowmobile Club
Chilkat Snowburners Inc. (Haines)
Caribou Hill Hoppers (Clam Gulch)
Alaska Trailblazers (Tok)
Delta Snow Seekers
I am sadden that ASSA, who I thought was the big brother of organized clubs, took this upon themselves to increase registration fees. I know you guys in the Anchorage area like those groomed trails. But don't have folks from Arctic Village to Bettles pay for them. Pay the fee at the trailhead to support the groomers. Just like the boat launches. Buy a pass to park.

I am very disappointed I had representation without authorization! My ASSA newsletters are now used to line the bottom of the bird cage!

Eric C.

 

[Puff_N_AK]

Who is Kevin Hite? Alaska State Snowmobile Association (ASSA) president.
Kevin sent a letter to Palin asking to INCREASE the snowmobile registration fee. Why? He feels the fees charged are now better managed and he sees a difference.
He published this in the October 2007 ASSA newsletter pages 4 & 17. The end of the article is this "I would like to inform you that ASSA is going to be approaching several of our legislative contacts to advocate the increasing of yearly fees."
I am a member of two snowmachine clubs and we were never asked by ASSA how we felt about this topic. In fact I contacted the presidents of the following clubs and asked if Kevin or ASSA contacted them about an increase in registration. No one had been asked.
Northern lights snow mobile club (Eielson)
Lake Louise Snowmachine Club
Resurrection Snow Riders (Seward)
Snowmads of Homer & Anchor point
Valdez Snowmobile Club
Chilkat Snowburners Inc. (Haines)
Caribou Hill Hoppers (Clam Gulch)
Alaska Trailblazers (Tok)
Delta Snow Seekers
I am sadden that ASSA, who I thought was the big brother of organized clubs, took this upon themselves to increase registration fees. I know you guys in the Anchorage area like those groomed trails. But don't have folks from Arctic Village to Bettles pay for them. Pay the fee at the trailhead to support the groomers. Just like the boat launches. Buy a pass to park.

I am very disappointed I had representation without authorization! My ASSA newsletters are now used to line the bottom of the bird cage!

Eric C.

This is exactly why i have no interest in joining any said club/association. While we are on it, isn't there a tax on fuel associated with ORV?

 

[theultrarider]

This is exactly why i have no interest in joining any said club/association. While we are on it, isn't there a tax on fuel associated with ORV?

Yes there is! And that is where alot of the trail grant monies come from. The problem was that no one in Alaska would register their sleds. How that orv fuel tax works is a % of fuel sales based on the number of sleds,atv's, ect in a state. How do they count sleds and atv's??? By the number that are registered in the state! That was the big push to get the point of sale registrations done in our state. This worked as our numbers of sleds in this state went way up all of a sudden. As did the amount of tax dollars we got for trails. The key to this was to keep the actual registration tax low enough that people would keep registering their sleds. Sounds like some people are greedy and see only the dollar signs in front of their face and not the big picture once again.

 

[Winter Project]

Anchorage Groomed Trails... ????

I was unaware of groomed trails in anchorage... that is awesome, i would love to ride them. I live in midtown, where can i find these groomed trails!?!?! 95% of my riding is done at turnagain, placer, and lost lakes... never once have I seen a groomer. I ride Eureka the other 5%... from my buddies cabin near gunsight, again, i have never seen a groomer. Where are all these magical groomed trails!? Truthfully, who gives a shìt... i hate trails. Lets use that money for lawyers(or however this is done, if its even possible) to open/re-open trails/areas that are closed to non-motorized use. I would even be open to the idea of paying off someone with ties to the forest service/lawmakers. I thought this was a country based off of equal opportunity, non-motorized people use motorized areas... WTF!?

 

[Puff_N_AK]

Yes there is! And that is where alot of the trail grant monies come from. The problem was that no one in Alaska would register their sleds. How that orv fuel tax works is a % of fuel sales based on the number of sleds,atv's, ect in a state. How do they count sleds and atv's??? By the number that are registered in the state! That was the big push to get the point of sale registrations done in our state. This worked as our numbers of sleds in this state went way up all of a sudden. As did the amount of tax dollars we got for trails. The key to this was to keep the actual registration tax low enough that people would keep registering their sleds. Sounds like some people are greedy and see only the dollar signs in front of their face and not the big picture once again.

Yes i am a firm believer that my dollars are better used by me than by govt. These dollars collected for ORV registartion, and fuel tax, are they completly spent on trails for ORV or better yet parking lots, restrooms? Its not like our crowd are the only ones that take advantage of these facilities and trails. Time for Non Motorized Users to feel a little of the wallet sting like Motorized users!