If your riding over from Greenwater......

[KrazyKen]

............or riding anywhere in the Chinook Pass area, read this. Good chance they'll start writing tickets now that we have a flag waver stirring up the $#!t.

http://sportsyakima.com/2010/11/illegal-snowmobilers-starting-to-cause-safety-risk/

 

[akturbo]

There is an issue with the east and west entrances not being properly marked, for sledders and wheelers. It's not clear what's allowed and when.

However the article does contain valid arguments agaist sledders, people need to know the rules and have some common sense. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[TBONE]

OPENING DATE "LEGAL"

FOREST SERVICE IN OLYMPIA HAS CONFIRMED BY PHONE AND ACTUAL LIVE PERSON THAT THE "LEGAL" OPPENING DATE FOR RIDING THE FOREST ROADS IS DECEMBER 1ST. SO AFTER TODAY "GAME ON"!!!!

 

[rmkboxer]

ya they all open on the first. greenwater is already marked no wheeled vehicles.

 

[xpspenziv]

on the greenwater side it has been posted for 2 weeks that iv seen that it is closed to wheeled vehicles.as stated earlier,people need to use common sence before we have another fatality.

 

[94fordguy]

I may loose some popularity points here but WHEN the hell are sledders going to SLOW DOWN on blind corners. Whether it be early season or mid-season or even 'summer' season, you have to remember that there could be;

Other sleds
Motor vehicles
Animals
fallen trees

across the road. I've personally almost been hit on my sled a few times by idiots flying around corners like they are doing sno-cross or something... Reading stuff like this does NONE of us any good in the public eye, or in the eye of fellow riders. A guy just died this weekend in Cle-Elum after hitting an Elk at high speed and damn near killed his girlfriend in the process.....

Are we blind to our own idiocy?




Sorry if this doesn't sound too great, but I am sick of a few stupid people making EVERY sledder look bad. The season hasn't even legally started yet and there are already people involved in avalanches, animal strikes, and now near-miss vehicle collisions.

Use some common sense when you're riding or STAY HOME!

 

[JETJOHNSO]

AMEN, IT'S A FEW IDIOTS THAT RUNE IT FOR ALL OF US

couldnt agree with you any more, It's the dumby's out there that cause this trouble and than get the roads closed to "dual use", If people would remember this we wouldnt have these problems

 

[Fox]

They were already writing tickets and running guys down out of the greenwater snopark on sunday.

 

[Midwest_Cat]

i think the article was written to really bash sledders more than to convey the point of the rules of the road...or who has access to those areas.

IMO, when there isnt a sign saying "no snowmobiles" then its game to anyone. So, I'm just going to "assume" i'm not supposed to ride there?

There should be signage saying "closed to snowmobiles untill 12-8-10 (or whatever the date) like it was suggesting in the article. Good example is at the cabin at greenwater or the signage at Baker. Its simple - must have 24" of snow to ride the meadows (baker) or 18" (i think) to ride at greenwater (at the cabin). or post information at the sno-park for the public to review - for when it opens, what roads are dual use, what roads are closed, what...what...what.

If there's no sign, or its not important enough to tell us not to ride, then dont get pi$$ed when we're there. Not everyone reads the 3" thick rule book about riding issued by the forest service, but its easier to read a sign on the side of the road telling us "sno-park closed" or "closed to snowmobilers". Then there is no excuse for why you passed the sign and still rode there (when you shouldn't have).

back in MI (lived there for 20+ years), December 1st was/is the official start of snowmobiling (hunting ended Nov 30th)...most of the people from down state wouldnt ride before then anyway (due to lack of good snow/base) so its not that big of an issue. HERE in WA (to my knowledge) i havent heard of an "official" date for when sledding starts - if there is let me know, or send the link. So, there again, shame on the state for that.

however, the only document telling me its ok to ride is the sno-park permit. Valid november through april...so right there it tells me i'm clear to ride in november - NO? then in april the forest service opens roads back up to wheeled vehicles - but we ride there anyway, No? and most of us ride past april anyway, all the way to may or june (depending on snow)...so where do you draw the line?

 

[Carbon77]

you have to remember that there could be;

Other sleds
Motor vehicles
Animals
fallen trees

Not to forget Groomers, A family friend was paralyzed several years ago plugging into a groomer doing about 30mph.

 

[rmkboxer]

when I was filling the sleds up in enumclaw saturday I talked to alot of jeeps that were planning on going up fs rd 70 I think I talked them into going up a different road since I never saw them. it is common sense right now that there could be jeeps trucks and just about anything up there. you have to share. its just like skiers up there.

 

[trikerider]

We went up Reecer Creek (north of Ellensburg) last weekend to get a tree, there were guys riding up the road like idiots. I replied in the Blewett Pass thread that I didn't think it was legal to ride when the road closed signs were down. Some dude replied informing me that it was illegal to go out and cut trees down, it worries me that these are the kind of people representing our sport. We had permits for the trees but I didn't waste my time replying.

 

[Fox]

when I was filling the sleds up in enumclaw saturday I talked to alot of jeeps that were planning on going up fs rd 70 I think I talked them into going up a different road since I never saw them. it is common sense right now that there could be jeeps trucks and just about anything up there. you have to share. its just like skiers up there.

They were there sunday, 3 of them..plus a newer tahoe that tried to follow, got about halfway up the 12% grade, slid backwards and they abandoned it. when we got back to the snopark FS law was just unloading his tracked sidebyside to head in and try to locate them.

 

[KrazyKen]

I agree totally!

I may loose some popularity points here but WHEN the hell are sledders going to SLOW DOWN on blind corners. Whether it be early season or mid-season or even 'summer' season, you have to remember that there could be;

Other sleds
Motor vehicles
Animals
fallen trees

across the road. I've personally almost been hit on my sled a few times by idiots flying around corners like they are doing sno-cross or something... Reading stuff like this does NONE of us any good in the public eye, or in the eye of fellow riders. A guy just died this weekend in Cle-Elum after hitting an Elk at high speed and damn near killed his girlfriend in the process.....

Are we blind to our own idiocy?




Sorry if this doesn't sound too great, but I am sick of a few stupid people making EVERY sledder look bad. The season hasn't even legally started yet and there are already people involved in avalanches, animal strikes, and now near-miss vehicle collisions.

Use some common sense when you're riding or STAY HOME!

The reason for this post and my comments were merely to inform everyone that they are probably going to be watching closer this week. if the guys ride over from the west to go to WJ's (which by the way is very do-able now) they might get stuck with a ticket. Most have no choice but to fuel up before heading back.
I agree that a lot of people are not in control out there, flying up the roads, cutting corners, etc. I ride with my family almost every week throughout the year and they hear it from me as to how to act out there and more so what to look out for (idiots!).
you guys can say what you want about how it's open on the 1st, until they berm up the roads and post it closed to wheeled vehicles, they can write you up and since hunting season doesn't close until next week I can just about guarantee that every road up the Chinook area is still closed to sleds.
There is a meeting tonight at the Naches Ranger station, I was going to go but not can not, but I have friends going so we should know more by the end of the night what the intentions are.

KO

 

[hughesfoundation]

The subject of snowmobiles on FS roads is a hot topic these days. Please be aware that there are regulations on the books that can keep us off the roads if they want. As long as we police our own we will be able to continue to use the roads in the winter. The concern of the FS is mixed use traffic, cars and sleds to be specific. The solution in the FS circles was to leave the roads close to us until the vehicles(cars/trucks) could no longer make it. You all can see the failing in this logic, what a challange for a 4 wheeler! Make it too deep and the average sledder couldn't make it to the snow to unload. In the northwest counties, other than the snow parks it is left up to the FS enforcement to police as they see fit. If I remember right, in the regs it is like 12" in the middle of the road that makes it legal for us to sled. I will try to find the document that was put out last year. I will add an email sent out this week pertaining to this topic...It follows......

**********************************************************

To assist inquiring minds asking about snowmobiling snow conditions you might give them this comparison:

SR 20 mountain passes are still open until more snow accumulates.

Ski areas are moving snow onto selected runs to provide a minimum base for early season operations. (media has been jumping at WX stories that sometimes fizzle out).

The recent valley bottom snow fall resulted in dry & light snow. Those conditions do not cause significant snow accumulation in the North Cascades. The heavy wet 'Cascade Crud' now falling builds the base with high water content.

Check the ski area reports or WA SNOTEL sites for accurate snow depth information near areas of interest at similar elevations. (Elbow L @ 3K' ~30", Martin Ridge @3.5K' ~35". 4-5" increase last night)
Mt. Baker Ski Area is advertising early season low snow depth conditions.



REMINDERS- Snowmobiles are not allowed on roads until snow depth stops vehicle traffic. Beyond roads a 24" snow base is a minimum amount to protect natural resources.

Starting December 1 WA Sno-Park permits are required at the 6 Snowmobile Sno-Parks on MBRD & DRD & the Salmon Ridge non-motorized winter sports area.

Snow trail grooming will commence after enough snow has fallen to assure the a wet warm period does not melt what has accumulated.
Grooming in the North Cascades usually starts between December 1& Christmas. First grooming advisory board meeting is here tomorrow night @7. Public is welcome.




Otis Allen
Trails & Winter Recreation
Mt. Baker Ranger District
810 State Route 20
Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284

**********************************************************

Once again this is in the Mt. Baker Ranger District but I am sure the others are following the same guidlines.

 

[Midwest_Cat]

if that 12" rule is correct, it should be published and readily available to the sledder - OR print it on the sno-park permit, or post at the sno-parks. and the comment about deep enought to stop wheeled vehicles is BS. and mr park rangers response is a typical, vage, government response...and not willing to take responsibility.

there should be a minnimum depth established on the side of the road (as traffic will compact the snow in the "center") and use that. if they're specific in their regs its hard to fight. or just set a date...kinda like hunting for when it starts/ends.

best association would be speed limits....signs are posted, we dont assume, and when you get caught you cant blame anyone but yourself.

 

[MajorDirty]

[QUOTE=Midwest_Cat;2506435]if that 12" rule is correct, it should be published and readily available to the sledder - OR print it on the sno-park permit, or post at the sno-parks. and the comment about deep enought to stop wheeled vehicles is BS. and mr park rangers response is a typical, vage, government response...and not willing to take responsibility.

there should be a minnimum depth established on the side of the road (as traffic will compact the snow in the "center") and use that. if they're specific in their regs its hard to fight. or just set a date...kinda like hunting for when it starts/ends.

best association would be speed limits....signs are posted, we dont assume, and when you get caught you cant blame anyone but yourself.[/QUOTE]


I agree with the above. If this is the rule, or whatever the rule is, it should be made public knowledge. It should be posted right at the snopark and on our snopark permit, that way everyone knows exactly what the rules are and are less apt to break them. The Naches ranger district told me that snowmobiles are not allowed until after hunting season (Dec. 8). Once hunting season is over they make a determination based on the amount of snow (12"?) in the area whether or not to start grooming. When the grooming starts and the berm has been installed, it is then OK to start riding. I think a simple sign at the park would take away all the guess work.

 

[hughesfoundation]

Please understand we are talking about two situations here. One is Snowpark the other is non-snowpark. Once the grooming starts and the signs are up it is legal to ride past the sign.(from where you park to the sign is another story)
The gray area is non-snowpark.......yes it would be nice to have everything posted but if it came to that it would not be in our favor.

 

[xpspenziv]

when I was filling the sleds up in enumclaw saturday I talked to alot of jeeps that were planning on going up fs rd 70 I think I talked them into going up a different road since I never saw them. it is common sense right now that there could be jeeps trucks and just about anything up there. you have to share. its just like skiers up there.

a jeep,suv and a couple yotas wre climbing the bank at the lower chitter sat am.

gray jeep with terra tires all the way around.

 

[RalleyTuned]

This is actually a really good read...being new to sleds I found it rather difficult to find information on when and where it is legal and ok to ride. I live in a small mountain town with access to an almost unlimited number of FS roads and about 100+ mi of trails right out of my driveway. I was easily able to find the laws from the WSSA site, but getting more technical info about different riding areas is seemingly impossible to find. Especially the rules about FS roads. I only recently found the info about when they normally open the sno parks (on these forums actually).

One of the areas we have been going out to is right past a sno-park, that isn't open. So we starting thinking ok, maybe we can't ride here yet? Then we saw someone pull up with a 4 place enclosed trailer full of sleds. Also saw a bunch of people riding near there by other parks that are closed. I would much rather know for sure than just assume and be at risk. We always take extra caution on the FS roads because we do see 4x4 tracks and such, but I would assume that would just be common sense

It would be really nice if there was more readily available info from the forest service/parks dept (?) about this kinda thing so that newbies were able to find the info. They have a great trail map system but it doesn't really address other areas and riding FS roads. Although with our town we just went into the bar and asked and got the answers we needed at the time haha!