Far from being an acurate statistic. Read many of posts with guys having 0 problems in 2500 miles +. This is doing nothing to the factory motor other than good fuel and taking care of thier ride.
I need everyone's help, how do we send Polaris the Message?
- Thread starter silverado44
- Start date
Far from being an acurate statistic. Read many of posts with guys having 0 problems in 2500 miles +. This is doing nothing to the factory motor other than good fuel and taking care of thier ride.
G
Going West
Well-known member
I actually just bought a used 2011 pro and had a cylinder skirt break at the end of the first day of riding, just over 500 miles. Yes warranty is fixing it so I'm happy about that, but this still does not make it a good or even a acceptable situation. (Still better then my 2012 PC which i spent over 1500 in belts on this year with no warranty)
I understand that all manufactures have a issue or two, but accepting them and sticking you head in the sand will not help, I don't know why you would defend a motor that is not as reliable as it should or needs to be.
Its a real sad situation when Doo is actually starting to look appealing.
I just lost a 550 Doo work sled this last week. Oil pump problems, common enough guys in the bush (AK & Canada) plug them and mix the gas. Going to scope it in the am and decide what to do. Pistons, rings and a hone is the best case, worse case upper & lower end or long block. Lost an Eltigre 6000 500cc engine in 1987, warped jugs due to coolant flow issue. Cost more to fix than the sled was worth. They all fail, they are a machine made by imperfect men. We run them at 5500 to 8000 RPM's all the time, demand more HP and light weight for a reasonable price. That is some tough conditions and hard on metal parts rubbing together. My point is that the OEM's all have their share of issues, if you bleed green or yellow the PRO engines suck. If you bleed Red, the Yellows ride like crap and the Greens eat belts like tic tacs. Not to mention the Blue ones are like fat chicks.
But the thing is they produce 3X the HP of sleds in the past and take us where we have never been and I am willing to pay to play.
My advice stop wasting your money on Poo's and go buy another brand. If you want write a letter to the manufacturer. The only real solutions is to either stop riding or get an annual done on your sled like the ones done on airplanes. They catch the problems most of the time before it is a real issue.
G
Going West
Well-known member
Ok well here is a real stat, right form my Polaris dealer, 5% of 2011 RMK 800s suffered cylinder skirt failure by the end of the 2011 riding season. This does not count crank or piston issues only cylinder skirts, nor does it count anything that has went down this year.
Sleds he has sold? Sleds in the State? Sleds in the Region or all 2011 RMK 800's I would like to see the published info, not questioning you but wonder if this was in a dealers bulletin or where exactly it came from.
Well right from the dealer in Williams Lake - 4 pro's have had engine problems out of 200sold in 2011.
It makes me laugh when people say "for how much we are paying for these sleds today they should be bullit proof" I remember my Dad buying a sled back in 75, he only made 7.50 an hour, which was good money in that time. The sled was around 1500 I think, been a long time. my point is, that was a lot of money back then for a sled that basically wouldnt go 5% the places the new iron goes in the Mountains and what I can remeber it was broke down most of the time.
It makes me laugh when people say "for how much we are paying for these sleds today they should be bullit proof" I remember my Dad buying a sled back in 75, he only made 7.50 an hour, which was good money in that time. The sled was around 1500 I think, been a long time. my point is, that was a lot of money back then for a sled that basically wouldnt go 5% the places the new iron goes in the Mountains and what I can remeber it was broke down most of the time.
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So here is the problem I see, That works out to 2%. He stated 5%. Now I am thinking was it exactly 200 sold or was it 190, 210 or over 200 units. I was ready to raise hell, yell at my dealer, write a letter then this happens and I am thinking Poo hater sucked me in. Am I wrong?
Oh did they ever suck, first sled I rode had a steel bar track and leaf springs. It was top of the line for its time.
G
Going West
Well-known member
I'm no hater, I just bought a used 2011 and have a 2013 on snow check. I was told from my dealer that when he looked up the failure rate for the same issue I just had (cylinder skirt) that it was 5%. It was not 5% of the sleds he has sold, they have only had 1 motor problem before mine so he was very surprised himself. The way he made it sound was that warranty statistics are available to them and thats where the 5% came from. Take it for what you want.
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Yep, here's mine. It wasn't an 860 though, just a stocker. Keep in mind this was catastrophic failure number 2 in under 2000 miles.
I am pretty new to snowmobiling but not new to motorsports. From my perspective these sled engines are pretty amazing. Power to weight is impressive. 100HP per litre is a good benchmark for a race engine and these put out nearly twice that. And by the clutch design they run at max RPM nearly all the time. That they last over 1000 miles just floors me. I don't think you can compare the current sleds to a sled from 5 years ago that went 3000 miles either. I think those days are over for the extreme mountain riders. That I got a 4 freaking year warranty is just retarded. That is 4 years, unlimited mileage. So the lesson is. Leave them stock. Stone stock. No pipe, no can, no nothing. Don't touch the oil pump, don't add oil to the gas. Fill them with gas and oil and rip. When I see a video of a guy riding a stone stock sled and doing stuff I couldn't do on a turbo shows me where the weak link is. I won't do anything to my 12 or new 13 that would void the warranty. If you buy one used get one stock and with the rest of the 4 year warranty left. I bought and am going to sell a turbo kit. I don't need that, I need to ride better. If I am going to turbo a sled I will do a Cat(when they fix their belt and drivetrain issues) or do the billet 1100.
Cure to Polaris problem!
Buy an Arctic Cat!!!!!!!
QUOTE=silverado44;3032841]Okay guys bear with me-
I don’t want to start this thread to sound negative or complain. My purpose for this is for others who have had engine problems to chime in and let “Mother Polaris” be reminded of problems that they know they have but won’t address. If you haven’t had problems don’t accuse those of us who have of trying to stir the pot and give the Pro a tarnished image. That’s not what I want- The chassis is great it needs a powertrain to compliment it and I’m calling Polaris out to give us one. So here’s my rant if you want to read. From 1996 to now my dad, brother and me all together have owned combined- 96 500 Sportsman, 98 500 Sportsman, 2005 800 Sportsman, 2011 850 Sportsman, 2-2005 500 Predators, 2-2007 525 Outlaw’s, a 98 400 and 2001 500 Scrambler, 08 800 RZR and 2012 RZR 900XP. In the snow machine department, 2 2003 VE 800’s, 2 2008 dragon 800’s, 2 2011 Pro 800’s, 2 2012 Pro 800’s. My point to listing these machines is to illustrate we bleed Polaris as a family. I’m not a Doo or Cat guy trying to start crap (they are good sleds I don’t hate). Both the Vertical Escapes (stock) had the bearing issue and had to be rebuilt, the Dragons (stock) blew 5 motors each, the 2011’s (stock) blew 1 motor each, and now the (they have a can and vent kits) 2012 Pro’s---- Each at the shop with motors. That’s 16 Polaris sled engines that we’ve been through. Since the VE’s and Dragons are yesterday’s news that Polaris left us to “EAT” (thanks Polaris) let’s talk about the Pro. I have a list of things to consider, what do you all think that Polaris needs to hear to get a hint on what they need to change??? Here’s my ideas-
We need reliability, the 800 CFI is not reliable it’s a band aided Dragon motor. If this wasn’t the case why does Indy Dan, MTNTK, RK TEK, and other aftermarket companies offer “The Fix”. Why is SLP saying add oil with your gas and turn up the pump? Also If reliability wasn’t an issue why is this snowest Pro Ride forum starting to sound like the “Dragon” section? Really now we have an engine Poll going on for reliability? That says something. This is because as these motors get miles their “true colors” are starting to show. For those of you that got 1500 miles and no issues great, but, when did 1500 miles become some great reliable high mile standard? It isn’t! We should expect more out of a sub $13,000 sled! More things to think about, read the Turbo section I love how the turbo guys diss the 800 CFI compared to the other brands on not being able to add more boost because the weak Polaris motor won’t stay together. I’m tired of Polaris’s “Dog and Pony Show” of “We tested the new 2011 Pro Engine for 110,000 miles, and we went to Peru and rode production sleds”. If so why the issues that are becoming more prevalent??? Polaris knows there’s a problem, case in point warranty work. I would love it if someone on here knows what they spent in warranty repair last year and shared it to us all? I bet it was a bunch. Anyone notice this year, especially, Polaris is stricter on warranty, taking pictures of everything, waiting long durations on time of approval, why? Because they know if you sneeze their engine will break. I’m fighting right now a can, really a can (should have been dishonest and lied)! Polaris is your engine that weak a can will put out the 1 extra horsepower and break a skirt??? Since I’m talking warranty just to let everyone know case halves are still on back order. My down time on the Retro sled will be over 5 weeks this week. What good is a warranty when 1/3 of the riding time is lost? That Fancy Pro Ride chassis does nothing sitting in the shop with a blown motor because warranty takes so long to approve and the 800’s are blowing up that case halves are on back order (that’s what the dealer told me why it’s taking so long…).
We need Power here People. Polaris give us the costumer a motor that kills the competition. I mean kills it. During the unveil of the 13 everyone was saying “A power bump” would be Friday’s big bomb drop, reread the forums if you don’t remember, how many people were disappointed by this not happening. I’ve read too many posts by the A/C and Doo guys saying they love the Pro but a weak and unreliable motor sways them not to buy. Read these forums, why does the Cat guy say put a Suki in a Pro and you got something, Doo guys say put an E-TEC in a Pro and you have something. I read PV’s opinion of his demo ride on the new XM, sounds solid, but more concerning is the number of responses of Doo guys that bought a Pro, read the XM handles like a Pro and now want to go back to Doo for the engine. More power to them and why not??? I have ridden both the E-TEC and SUKI they rip and their chassis is heavier than the Pro what gives Polaris??? For those who feel they don’t need more power out of the 800 buy a 600 next time. Last year at the hill climbs for Kings a 600 stock Ski Doo being piloted by Luke Rainey made it to the top. It took Keith Curtis on a turbo to best that. I guarantee Keith Curtis, Chris Burant, Dan Adams, and others won’t mind a little power bump so it’s time for Polaris to come out with a new mill that really meets the expectation of a true mountain rider, we need reliability, durability, class leading power, run ability, and class leading fuel consumption. People get tired of spending 1800$ to 2500$ on 858 BB, SLP stage 3 and 4’s, just to get the sled up to the competitions power. Polaris quit raising your prices, we all will be priced out of this sport, we get tired of stripping off our shocks for real ones, putting Team Tieds on to hold better RPM’s and putting other aftermarket parts on that work better. Here’s an Idea, don’t put your stuff on the sled, deduct the price or just start using better components from the get go. My point- it took you till 2013 to figure out the Air Frame style of running board is what it takes to evacuate the snow. So many people spend big bucks to upgrade your poor engineering. Please listen to us the mountain customer and deliver what we need. The days of riding a long track trail sled and calling it a mountain sled are over or at least that’s what I thought.
I hope everyone sees where I’m coming from. I’m writing this so we all have a better sled. I don’t want to make waves but it’s time for Polaris to really listen to use the mountain rider. I don’t think a company “With 2010 annual sales of $1.99 billion” should have a hard time filling our requests of a stronger better engine. It is 2012 and technology has come a long way. In closing, I can tell you this much I’ve rode the new 2013 and yes it rides and handles better but with the same 800 CFI I won’t buy another. It’s not enough to sway me; I need reliability and more engine. And all the hype on Polaris 2013 “You Tube”, it’s just that, hype. Your 11 and 12 will run with the 13. A 2012 SLP stage 3 killed the 13 up a deep steep hill. Not impressive for the 13, but imagine if that 13 came stock with more reliable power??? Now how many people would be for that?????? Are you listening “Mother Polaris”??????????[/QUOTE]
Buy an Arctic Cat!!!!!!!
QUOTE=silverado44;3032841]Okay guys bear with me-
I don’t want to start this thread to sound negative or complain. My purpose for this is for others who have had engine problems to chime in and let “Mother Polaris” be reminded of problems that they know they have but won’t address. If you haven’t had problems don’t accuse those of us who have of trying to stir the pot and give the Pro a tarnished image. That’s not what I want- The chassis is great it needs a powertrain to compliment it and I’m calling Polaris out to give us one. So here’s my rant if you want to read. From 1996 to now my dad, brother and me all together have owned combined- 96 500 Sportsman, 98 500 Sportsman, 2005 800 Sportsman, 2011 850 Sportsman, 2-2005 500 Predators, 2-2007 525 Outlaw’s, a 98 400 and 2001 500 Scrambler, 08 800 RZR and 2012 RZR 900XP. In the snow machine department, 2 2003 VE 800’s, 2 2008 dragon 800’s, 2 2011 Pro 800’s, 2 2012 Pro 800’s. My point to listing these machines is to illustrate we bleed Polaris as a family. I’m not a Doo or Cat guy trying to start crap (they are good sleds I don’t hate). Both the Vertical Escapes (stock) had the bearing issue and had to be rebuilt, the Dragons (stock) blew 5 motors each, the 2011’s (stock) blew 1 motor each, and now the (they have a can and vent kits) 2012 Pro’s---- Each at the shop with motors. That’s 16 Polaris sled engines that we’ve been through. Since the VE’s and Dragons are yesterday’s news that Polaris left us to “EAT” (thanks Polaris) let’s talk about the Pro. I have a list of things to consider, what do you all think that Polaris needs to hear to get a hint on what they need to change??? Here’s my ideas-
We need reliability, the 800 CFI is not reliable it’s a band aided Dragon motor. If this wasn’t the case why does Indy Dan, MTNTK, RK TEK, and other aftermarket companies offer “The Fix”. Why is SLP saying add oil with your gas and turn up the pump? Also If reliability wasn’t an issue why is this snowest Pro Ride forum starting to sound like the “Dragon” section? Really now we have an engine Poll going on for reliability? That says something. This is because as these motors get miles their “true colors” are starting to show. For those of you that got 1500 miles and no issues great, but, when did 1500 miles become some great reliable high mile standard? It isn’t! We should expect more out of a sub $13,000 sled! More things to think about, read the Turbo section I love how the turbo guys diss the 800 CFI compared to the other brands on not being able to add more boost because the weak Polaris motor won’t stay together. I’m tired of Polaris’s “Dog and Pony Show” of “We tested the new 2011 Pro Engine for 110,000 miles, and we went to Peru and rode production sleds”. If so why the issues that are becoming more prevalent??? Polaris knows there’s a problem, case in point warranty work. I would love it if someone on here knows what they spent in warranty repair last year and shared it to us all? I bet it was a bunch. Anyone notice this year, especially, Polaris is stricter on warranty, taking pictures of everything, waiting long durations on time of approval, why? Because they know if you sneeze their engine will break. I’m fighting right now a can, really a can (should have been dishonest and lied)! Polaris is your engine that weak a can will put out the 1 extra horsepower and break a skirt??? Since I’m talking warranty just to let everyone know case halves are still on back order. My down time on the Retro sled will be over 5 weeks this week. What good is a warranty when 1/3 of the riding time is lost? That Fancy Pro Ride chassis does nothing sitting in the shop with a blown motor because warranty takes so long to approve and the 800’s are blowing up that case halves are on back order (that’s what the dealer told me why it’s taking so long…).
We need Power here People. Polaris give us the costumer a motor that kills the competition. I mean kills it. During the unveil of the 13 everyone was saying “A power bump” would be Friday’s big bomb drop, reread the forums if you don’t remember, how many people were disappointed by this not happening. I’ve read too many posts by the A/C and Doo guys saying they love the Pro but a weak and unreliable motor sways them not to buy. Read these forums, why does the Cat guy say put a Suki in a Pro and you got something, Doo guys say put an E-TEC in a Pro and you have something. I read PV’s opinion of his demo ride on the new XM, sounds solid, but more concerning is the number of responses of Doo guys that bought a Pro, read the XM handles like a Pro and now want to go back to Doo for the engine. More power to them and why not??? I have ridden both the E-TEC and SUKI they rip and their chassis is heavier than the Pro what gives Polaris??? For those who feel they don’t need more power out of the 800 buy a 600 next time. Last year at the hill climbs for Kings a 600 stock Ski Doo being piloted by Luke Rainey made it to the top. It took Keith Curtis on a turbo to best that. I guarantee Keith Curtis, Chris Burant, Dan Adams, and others won’t mind a little power bump so it’s time for Polaris to come out with a new mill that really meets the expectation of a true mountain rider, we need reliability, durability, class leading power, run ability, and class leading fuel consumption. People get tired of spending 1800$ to 2500$ on 858 BB, SLP stage 3 and 4’s, just to get the sled up to the competitions power. Polaris quit raising your prices, we all will be priced out of this sport, we get tired of stripping off our shocks for real ones, putting Team Tieds on to hold better RPM’s and putting other aftermarket parts on that work better. Here’s an Idea, don’t put your stuff on the sled, deduct the price or just start using better components from the get go. My point- it took you till 2013 to figure out the Air Frame style of running board is what it takes to evacuate the snow. So many people spend big bucks to upgrade your poor engineering. Please listen to us the mountain customer and deliver what we need. The days of riding a long track trail sled and calling it a mountain sled are over or at least that’s what I thought.
I hope everyone sees where I’m coming from. I’m writing this so we all have a better sled. I don’t want to make waves but it’s time for Polaris to really listen to use the mountain rider. I don’t think a company “With 2010 annual sales of $1.99 billion” should have a hard time filling our requests of a stronger better engine. It is 2012 and technology has come a long way. In closing, I can tell you this much I’ve rode the new 2013 and yes it rides and handles better but with the same 800 CFI I won’t buy another. It’s not enough to sway me; I need reliability and more engine. And all the hype on Polaris 2013 “You Tube”, it’s just that, hype. Your 11 and 12 will run with the 13. A 2012 SLP stage 3 killed the 13 up a deep steep hill. Not impressive for the 13, but imagine if that 13 came stock with more reliable power??? Now how many people would be for that?????? Are you listening “Mother Polaris”??????????[/QUOTE]
T
towngrunt
Well-known member
Ok guys its my turn. I have owned polaris ever since I got back into the sled business in 1999 and have very good luck with mine. Owned ultras, edge 7 and 8's, 2 different Dragon's which I still own and now my Pro. Sure I have had some issues but they were minor and never a major one as discussed above.I have however noticed some sort of a pattern in all of these motors going down though, many times it is an entire group that have similar problems. Maybe I have been lucky or maybe I just put a little more time into warm-ups and what I do to my sled. I am by no means an angle or a model on how to maintain and prepare a sled but I do feel like that is al large part of longevity.
F
Flygti32
Well-known member
So pardon my ignorance on this but what type of material is a snowmobile block made of? is it acutal steel? aluminum? mix?
The reason i ask this, two years ago i was ready to by a carlift. I researched different brands quite extensively. I found one made by Mowhawk, the lift was incredible but almost twice the price of everything else. I phoned the guy and talked to him for almost two hours about his product and others. His product was made from American steel, not chinese like the rest. I asked what the difference was and found out some interesting facts about steel production. In NA we have regulations and strick standards on how the chemical composition of steel, aluminum is formed. Hence the different strengths in metals for certain aplications. We have metalergists in our factories overseeing quality control of our products. In China, out of all the metal producing factories over there (100`s of them) only 5!!!! factories carry metalergists in them.
So the point im getting to is , where is Polaris getting there materials from to build there motors. I am willing to guess a company there size is sourcing from China. That being the case, who is to say, how good the quality is in the material they are getting.
The reason i ask this, two years ago i was ready to by a carlift. I researched different brands quite extensively. I found one made by Mowhawk, the lift was incredible but almost twice the price of everything else. I phoned the guy and talked to him for almost two hours about his product and others. His product was made from American steel, not chinese like the rest. I asked what the difference was and found out some interesting facts about steel production. In NA we have regulations and strick standards on how the chemical composition of steel, aluminum is formed. Hence the different strengths in metals for certain aplications. We have metalergists in our factories overseeing quality control of our products. In China, out of all the metal producing factories over there (100`s of them) only 5!!!! factories carry metalergists in them.
So the point im getting to is , where is Polaris getting there materials from to build there motors. I am willing to guess a company there size is sourcing from China. That being the case, who is to say, how good the quality is in the material they are getting.
You hit the nail on the head right there. Quailty is always the issue with mass produced item. Depending on who is running the company at the time quality is either a top or secondary priority to the numbers and of course the cash flow. Polaris's former CEO Tom Tiller was one of those "push it out the door fast, sell sell sell" kind of guys. He was the CEO for the development of the fusion and dragon years... Interesting how he stepped down from CEO in 2009, imo as the ship was sinking... leaving the pieces to get picked up by someone else. So naturally, there is going to be some residual affects and hopefully the current CEO Scott Wine is someone more interested in quality and dedication to the customer than profit sharing promises to wall street stock holders... Time will tell I guess. Hindsight is 20/20
Ok, the first time I took my sled in was around 12/31/11. Kurt's hooked it up to the tattle tale machine and the guy looked at me and said, "You are at 8000 or more rpm 2% of the time." Feeling like he was calling me a wimp and stating that I didn't ride very hard, I responded, "It would be more but I've had all four of my young boys with me this last week so it's been mainly trails!" He laughed and said, "NO. That is a huge amount of time at WFO. Most people claim to ride and they are at .05% WFO at best!" Not saying I ride harder than anyone else, just reinforcing the fact that not many people ride at 8000+ rpm for much of the life of the motor. I would say closer to 6500 or 7000 to be honest.
I would like a better motor also, but I don't see it happening anytime...ever!
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