How to make avy training more important?

[EagleRiverDee]

I agree that the most effective thing is peer pressure and refusing to ride with people who don't have the proper gear and training. I consider it my responsibility to take the training and have the gear because my friend's lives may someday depend on me- and one step further, I'm also working hard on a fitness program because if I have to dig like a piece of heavy equipment I don't want my lack of fitness to be a reason someone doesn't make it. Conversely, I expect my riding partners to have the gear and training. We're still working on it but most of our group is trained now and we're applying heavy peer pressure to the ones that aren't.

Another thing you can do, and this has been somewhat effective in our own group, is forward videos of avy's and initiate an email discussion during the week. I don't know about you all but a lot of the folks I ride with I don't see during the week but we email. When I see something interesting, I forward it along. Last year there was a vid of an avy on what looked like a decently anchored slope (quite a few trees) and looked JUST LIKE slopes my crew rides. And when I saw it that it had avalanched, I sent that video out because it was a wake up call. Hey- trees aren't a guarantee that a slope won't slide. And it got a lot of discussion going among my group.

 

[Ski Dog]

Here's a little feedback from a flatlander from Wisconsin. A little history on my experience with riding in the West: I went to Togwotee in '06, '08 and last week. Until my last visit I have to be honest (and embarrassed) and say that I had no idea of the high risk of avalanches in that area and never thought that the areas where we ride were avalanche prone...until last week. We were at Togwotee when the unfortunate slide occurred and took the life of a fellow snowmobiler which really made me think about where we were riding.

This year we rode with a group of friends (also from Wisconsin) who have a ton of back country experience and were thoughtful enough to bring us beacons and probes (we all had shovels already). After some instructions on how to use the beacons we were on our way. I'm very fortunate that my friends considered my safety while riding with them. Several areas were avoided due to suspect slide areas and our "guides" gave us some tips such as to where to stop while watching others ride and what to do if a slide occurred among many other things.

Myself and my 2 buddies headed back to Wisconsin on Thursday while the other 4 guys stayed one additional day to ride. We found out later that night that one of the riders were caught in an avalanche but was luckily rescued by the other three guys he was with. There appeared to be no threat of an avalanche on this specific hill that slid, but from what I've been reading on the forums here, several people have seen hills slide this year that they've never seen slide before. He was wearing an avalanche pack but was unable to deploy the bag in time. He was buried about three feet below the snow with one of his boots sticking out above the surface. These guys take an avalanche safety class every year and it saved a life.

My point to this story is that due to the many stories I've been reading on SnoWest, and that of our friend that was caught, I will NEVER ride in the mountains again without taking an avalanche safety class and purchasing my own avalanche pack, beacon and probe...and know how to use them. Since I've gotten back to Wisconsin, I've been doing a lot of research on avalanches and the equipment that I'm going to need for my trip next year including an avalanche class.

I hope all that are reading this that don't have any avalanche training will take a class ASAP...I know I will, and your friends and family will thank you. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families and friends of our fellow snowmobilers who've lost their lives doing what they loved to do.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Thank you for this post.

 

[James T Kirk]

How to make avy training more important? Its really F%^*ing simple: the easiest way to survive a slide is to not trigger one. The easiest way to not trigger one is to be able to recognize signs of instability. The easiest was to recognize instability is to take REAL and ADVANCED avy courses and USE the training in the field. An evening "avalanche awareness" seminar is not avy training. A certified Avy 1 and Avy 2 (us) and AST 1 and AST 2 (Canada) are real courses. The terrain that is accessed daily on todays sleds needs level 2 and up training to be able to make informed decisions. I took my AST 2 over 10 years ago and have had lots of additional work related training since and I would be DEAD without that knowledge.

I am sure I will get the whiney response from flatlanders- "I dont want to spend my whole riding holiday taking an avy course." well if you dont you might not get another holiday.

 

[WIS.REV]

Being a flatlander myself, I sure hope that you do not get any 'whiney' responses. I have attended Mike Duffy's class now four times and have taken something different away from it each and every time. Thanks you Mike for these great classes. With that said I need/want to take a hands on real world class, but have yet to do so. No excuses I just have not done so yet, I WILL. Please, as a snowmobiler, if you have not taken any training please do so. Any level is better than no level. Do this for your family and friends and also for yourselves. It is very much worth any investment made. Dave.

 

[550iq]

The only people that attend "avalanche" classes are those that want to understand what it was that killed people. Those that have yet to have the avalanche "come home" with them have yet to have a reason to attend the study groups. Considering the lost-to-avalanche souls vs. the thousands of hours of safe incident free snowmobiling time, not a bad bet. But in the end the house does win and folks will die, ignorant of their killer. All you can do is be a beacon of light in the distance by being there for them. Through this site, through provocative commentary, through presenting the classes and so on. Sooner or later they will attend. Greet them with open arms, just as those that greeted us.

 

[James T Kirk]

The only people that attend "avalanche" classes are those that want to understand what it was that killed people. Those that have yet to have the avalanche "come home" with them have yet to have a reason to attend the study groups. Considering the lost-to-avalanche souls vs. the thousands of hours of safe incident free snowmobiling time, not a bad bet. But in the end the house does win and folks will die, ignorant of their killer. All you can do is be a beacon of light in the distance by being there for them. Through this site, through provocative commentary, through presenting the classes and so on. Sooner or later they will attend. Greet them with open arms, just as those that greeted us.

Are you on glue?

 

[EagleRiverDee]

The only people that attend "avalanche" classes are those that want to understand what it was that killed people. Those that have yet to have the avalanche "come home" with them have yet to have a reason to attend the study groups.

That statement is just flat out incorrect. I have attended 3 separate avy courses so far. I have never witnessed, been involved in, or lost a friend in an avy. I don't want to understand what it was that killed people- I want to understand how not to be killed myself, and how to effectively help others if I witness an avy where someone is buried. Most of the people I know who take avy training take it for the same reason- to avoid ever getting into an avy. Not as a response to having already been involved in one or having lost a friend or loved one to one.

I'm not saying that what you claim NEVER happens- it does. But you indicate it's the ONLY thing that ever happens, which is untrue and I would say isn't even in the majority.

 

[550iq]

The avalanche doesn't care if you inhale glue, the avalanche could care less why or how many avalanche classes you've attended, the avalanche doesn't pick between the ignorant or smart, you screw up and there's death. You all have learned that in any reputable avalanche class you've taken. That is why you took the class, right? Because avalanches kill people, and since you are people, you don't want to die so you learn about what kills people so you don't die.

If you really want to teach folks about the realities of avalanches, then you must talk about the results of bad judgement, death. If you cannot teach the truth about avalanches, then you cannot teach people about avalanches.

I will always represent death, the dead and those that will die. If I can scare one person or renew one person's desire to attend an avalanche class by representing the ugly end to a bad call and thus save a life, then I say good. And isn't this what this thread is about?