Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Don't miss out on all the fun! Register on our forums to post and have added features! Membership levels include a FREE membership tier.

Hospital bill - what's wrong with healthcare

The docs, knew what the problem was, they knew she had insurance, and they ran the bill up on purpose. The whole time she was there, she was treated like she was at a resort. The doc would come visit every half hr, ask about pain and administer any pain killer that she asked for (just stick it on the bill).

right so would you rather the Dr came in every 3 hours or so......

healthcare has to walk a very fine line.

in my area, everyone wants there x-rays yesterday.

the guy with a bust up leg wants it fixed but doesn't want me to move it for pictures, etc. Now take that over and entire system.
 
Well, my wife, kids and myself weren't treated like we were at a resort. Kinda felt more like a prison camp test labratory or something.
 
What would have happened if we didn't have insurance?

We would have shown up to the emergency room, the doc would have taken a look at the puncture, asked a couple of questions and made a determination.
There might have been a blood test, and maybe antibiotics administered.

I knew what the problem was going in, my wife knew what the problem was going in, we just wanted a professional opinion and whether or not we had insurance I would have taken her given the situation.

Just for the record, I hate the health care industry, I hate the health insurance industry. In fact I'm fighting with my insurance provider right now over them charging me for a second policy and then denying to pay my out of pocket expenses. They are claiming that since my wife is insured through Anthem with her work, and my personal health insurance is through Anthem with her as a family member that they don't have to cover her as a secondary insurance. Nevermind the fact that they took thousands from me over the last 2 years while these 2 policy's existed. Their admission of guilt is the fact that they are refunding me the several thousand dollars I paid out for her on the family policy.
The entire system is filled with rat pig crooks.
 
Had a local anesthesiologist on the radio a few weeks ago admitting that they have to pass on a lot of the costs to insurance payers or cash payers because Medicare/Medicaid is a JOKE and the docs don't even break even, so the service is basically free and doesn't even pay for overhead. Very few docs around here will even take MC/MC patients because of that and that's corroborated by trying to find my father-in-law a doctor who will accept it. Then when we do find a doctor, he's incompetent. The only reason this anesthesiologist's group does take MC/MC is they are the biggest in the area.

Wonder why the current Congress will not hear talk of tort reform or increasing the competition of buying insurance outside your state or dealing with the millions of dollars of Medicare fraud? Anytime government is involved in anything there is waste, fraud and abuse.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426981,00.html

Then my GYN said he pays close to six figures for malpractice insurance.

Then there's illegals getting free health care we can't. Read the section about the Navy wife who can't get the free stuff the illegals get and that the hospital can sue citizens, but not illegals:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

Then there's people who use the emergency rooms like an urgent care and the ER can't turn you away. Like I posted before, MOST of the ER visits I see in my job are stupid stuff, mostly psych patients who stop taking their meds or start taking drugs again and decompensate, drunks, dialysis patients who skip dialysis, diabetics who don't take their insulin, etc. How many psych patients, drug users and drunks are working and have insurance? Nope, they're on SSDI.

Make sure you check your bill with a fine tooth comb - you'll most likely find bogus stuff they never did that's obvious like supplying a male patient with estrogen (when he's not having a sex change operation)

Also, the healthy and/or "invincible" crowd in their 20s who don't pay for insurance are going to be forced to - that'll go over well with them. I'm in my mid 40s and never get sick, don't even get colds. My insurance is only for catastrophic and has a $4,000 deductible, but it's almost $300 a month.

Then my doc says I need to get my boobs squished. So I make the appointment and for a tech to squish my boobs, take a picture and have a rad look at the x-ray - over $300.

I guess for those of us who can't afford the types of insane bills the hospital gives we can always go to prison where there IS free health care and you don't have to work.

I thought that was hilarious that in the current House health care bill you go to jail and/or pay a hefty fine for not having insurance, but prisoners get their health care paid for by taxpayers.

"Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years."

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

Here in Missoula we have these new CostCare clinics that are privately run and doing so well they've expanded. "How CostCare keeps fees low:
We focus on those “everyday” problems that often do not require expensive equipment or lab tests. For some procedures like X-rays we have contracted with low-cost, high-quality suppliers...To keep our costs to a minimum, we do not process insurance. However we’ll be happy to provide you with a submission-ready receipt that will allow you to be reimbursed by your insurance company...We treat common ailments — the kind of minor problems that can turn into a major inconvenience. That includes a truly wide variety of conditions, so consider the list below as a guide. Basic Visit $45"
Our list of treated ailments includes, but is not limited to: Allergies, Asthma, Bladder Infections, Bronchitis, Cat/Dog Bites (simple), Cellulitis, Colds,Cuts, Ear Complaints, Eye Complaints, Fractures, Impetigo, Insect Bites, Minor Burns, Poison Ivy, Rashes, Ringworm, Sinus Infections, Skin Infections, Sprains, Strep Throat, Swimmer’s Ear
Our list of procedures includes, but is not limited to: Diabetic Foot Care, Earwax Removal, Nebulizer Treatment, Stitches, Tick Removal, Wart Removal. Suture Removal $8"

http://www.costcare.com/
 
Last edited:
Had a local anesthesiologist on the radio a few weeks ago admitting that they have to pass on a lot of the costs to insurance payers or cash payers because Medicare/Medicaid is a JOKE and the docs don't even break even, so the service is basically free and doesn't even pay for overhead. Very few docs around here will even take MC/MC patients because of that and that's corroborated by trying to find my father-in-law a doctor who will accept it. Then when we do find a doctor, he's incompetent. The only reason this anesthesiologist's group does take MC/MC is they are the biggest in the area.
barely break even? You sure about that? I would think most of it is due to not being able to gauge the crap out of an individual, because MC/MC sets the cost. There shouldn't be much overhead, it is not like dealing with insurance companies... Interesting.. I didn't think the operated at a loss though.

Wonder why the current Congress will not hear talk of tort reform or increasing the competition of buying insurance outside your state or dealing with the millions of dollars of Medicare fraud? Anytime government is involved in anything there is waste, fraud and abuse.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426981,00.html
Tort reform was done in Texas. Result = no decrease in premiums..

So you buy insurance out of state.. the insurance will just require you to go to the out of state hospital, as they get cheaper rates at the locale (to them) hospitals. Why would they want you if you are going to go to a hospital that is much much more expensive for them (due to there limited bargaining ability) in your state?

Don't insurance companies negotiate for prices from hospitals?
 
Last edited:
As to the immigration issue, I wish they would go after the businesses that hire them a lot harder. The costs associated with them are quite large in certain areas of the states.
 
i know you are all proud to be americans, and feel that you live in the greatest country on earth, but...what is a hospital bill??? i know i'm just a dumb canadian, but i know anytime i need medical attention, i know i don't have to pay for it....i guess that's just one of the perks of living in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD..eh?;)
 
i know you are all proud to be americans, and feel that you live in the greatest country on earth, but...what is a hospital bill??? i know i'm just a dumb canadian, but i know anytime i need medical attention, i know i don't have to pay for it....i guess that's just one of the perks of living in THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD..eh?;)

Japan is the same way. you pay like $30 a month and everything is covered. we were thinking about going to japan to have the kids but didn't know how that would work. i'm an American and my wife is Japanese, I was worried that maybe they wouldn't be granted citizenship without a huge hassle.
 
eh canadian health care may be free..but it's not all that. I've heard plenty of horror stories and many of the better canadian drs don't stick around in canada. On the plus side.. I can always go back if for whatever reason I can't get covered in the states..

Ya the bills are high, I have insurance.. and I still owe my local hospital $$, but...they got me on a payment plan..what else can I do. I don't even want to know how much the total charge was for my ankle surgery the other year..but it sure beats the alternative..ie walking with a limp the rest of my life. I know when I go to a Dr here in America (of my choosing) I'm going to get top notch quality service when it comes to the things that matter the most (ie my heatlh)...can't say the same about Canadian health coverage.

(btw.. I don't know how BC health coverage compares to Quebec..but..I don't even want to bring up "health" to any of my relatives still back home.. unless I'm ready for a lecture)
 
not sure where you're getting your facts, but there are plenty of excellent docs in canada....i know of many people, including myself that have had serious injuries that required surgery, and we all turned out just fine after the procedures that we didn't have to pay for....besides...we have REVY!!!!:beer;
 
It's because we are paying for the uninsured people also.And there is alot of them, legal and illegal!!
 
A good majority of the money made goes to malpractice insurance for when they get their asses sued... Once again take lawyers and ability to sue docs out of the question prices go way down.
 
barely break even? You sure about that? I would think most of it is due to not being able to gauge the crap out of an individual, because MC/MC sets the cost. There shouldn't be much overhead, it is not like dealing with insurance companies... Interesting.. I didn't think the operated at a loss though.

Tort reform was done in Texas. Result = no decrease in premiums..

So you buy insurance out of state.. the insurance will just require you to go to the out of state hospital, as they get cheaper rates at the locale (to them) hospitals. Why would they want you if you are going to go to a hospital that is much much more expensive for them (due to there limited bargaining ability) in your state?

Don't insurance companies negotiate for prices from hospitals?

Breaking even: Just repeating what the anesthesiologist said. He talked about looking at their profit and loss sheets and what he found.

Texas: Not sure about premiums, but found this and some others:

"The doomsday scenario for Texas was bleak: It was increasingly clear that without tort reforms, physicians would not be able to afford medical liability premiums, specialists would shun the state and many patients would struggle to find care.

Lone Star voters took notice and, in 2003, applied their good judgment to the problem. They approved a state constitutional amendment limiting noneconomic damages in medical liability cases to $250,000 for physicians. Five years later, the cap is being credited for slashing liability insurance premiums, boosting the ranks of doctors in the state, and improving medical access to patients.

While a comprehensive national solution has long been a goal of tort reformers -- and long blocked in the U.S. Senate -- Texas serves as a fresh example of the progress that can be achieved at the state level, first demonstrated by California's landmark Medical Injury Compensation Reform Act of 1975.

Texas physicians have witnessed a 25% overall drop in liability rates since 2003, the state insurance department says. For the first time, the state's largest medical liability carrier, Texas Medical Liability Trust, saw a 50% reduction in lawsuit filings, this from 2003 to 2008. Texas went from four insurers to more than 30 during that period.

According to the Texas Medical Board, medical license applications have soared from 2,561 to 4,041 -- a 58% jump. At the same time, the number of neurosurgeons has climbed 12%, while the supply of orthopedic surgeons has risen 9%."

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/09/15/edsa0915.htm

Out-of-state insurance: Not sure what out-of-state insurers could do - haven't experienced it before. The idea of more competition is appealing.
 
Here's a little update as after I posted yesterday about my insurance co, 10 minutes later I recieved a check in the mail from Anthem Bluecross.

I don't want to take away from the OP, but this is online with his topic and I don't feel like starting another new post on this subject.

So my wife went to work for a co 2 years ago who provides her health insurance (same co anthem). At that time, we cancelled her off my ins plan. Anthem never did cancel her, and for 2 years they have been automatically taking money out of my business checking account and giving her a policy that they can't honor as the co that she works for has a similar policy for her.
I realize this as I'm shopping new ins co and I'm getting quotes that are more than half the savings that I've been paying over the last several years. (they are just quoting a policy for myself). So to make a long story short, anthem has admitted the mistake and is supposed to write me a check to the tune of $3k. Yesterday I get a check in the mail for $120.00. I immediatly call anthem trying to figure out what they have screwed up now. They are happy to tell me that I have a new policy written up for myself, and I'm paid up until 2012. They said there was a technical difficulty and that they couldn't write a check for $3k so they were going to credit my policy and I don't need to make any payments for 2 years.
Obviously that isn't acceptable to me so they are now working on getting me a check. Anybody care to guess how long it will take????
 
Last edited:
not sure where you're getting your facts, but there are plenty of excellent docs in canada....i know of many people, including myself that have had serious injuries that required surgery, and we all turned out just fine after the procedures that we didn't have to pay for....besides...we have REVY!!!!:beer;

Not sure where.. oh wait first hand I'm Canadian..just live in the states atm.
 
Some of you all are bashing the wrong people here, doctors are NOT the problem and they deserve every penny they are able to hold on too.

the problem is the system, and by system its the government being in bed with the insurance companys and hospital ownership.

don't attack hospital staff, they are excellent on the whole.


what pizzes me off is the giant circle jerk govt/insurance companys/hospital/pharm/lawyers got going on to bilk US out of our money.


wth aggressive tort reform, true cost pricing and fully transparent billing one could probably afford to not even carry insurance, bnut they would thru their work cause it'd be cheap for employers to provide it
 
Last edited:
Some of you all are bashing the wrong people here, doctors are NOT the problem and they deserve every penny they are able to hold on too.

I disagree. They are responsible for the care that is given. While it is true that they are just a cog in the system, they should have the same amount of responsibility as the rest of the cogs in the system.
 
I thought we were discussing the costs of the care, not so much the quality.


maybe you need to elaborate. If your talking about doctors who own their own pratice then perhaps we can agree on the ownership/cost association.

on the whole though I think our docs are pretty dang good
 
True we are talking costs. I guess I was thinking along the lines that care = cost.

The problem with the way doctors get paid, is that they are paid by what things they do, not by how healthy their clients are. Theoretically, what financial motivation does a doctor have to get you into better shape / healthier?
 
barely break even? You sure about that? I would think most of it is due to not being able to gauge the crap out of an individual, because MC/MC sets the cost. There shouldn't be much overhead, it is not like dealing with insurance companies... Interesting.. I didn't think the operated at a loss though.


You obviously have little experience in the health care field. Medicare/Medicaid does not pay a decent rate when they pay at all. Many places have found they spend more money collecting from them than they get back in reimbursement (if they ever get reimbursed). So they no longer take those patients. Especially medicaid.
 
Premium Features



Back
Top