why dont they make the hillcross tracks bigger and better?? Like the tracks they used to have in the xgames. There needs to be more rythm to most of them and bigger jumps. What do you guys think??
hillcross
- Thread starter theslednutz.com
- Start date
I don't think that they have the room for a bigger track at most of the ski-hill's. It would be nice to make a bigger track at places that they have the room, like at spirit mountain.
ya thats true...they could still make the tracks a little more technical...mine fields, butcher shops, bigger triples and doubles, etc....the sport isnt gonna grow if every track is the same old little jumps....
A) lack of snow
B) lack of time
C) lack of effort
D) people would crash their brains out and his insurance would go up
Realistically, most tracks don't get built until Friday, and usually by someone who has never built a track other than the one for that one hillcross every year. They have no idea what we're capable of doing on sleds.
The X-Games were for the best riders, and the track was built just for GOOD riders. Throw someone who doesn't have a lot of experience out there on a fast sled = big crash. Wally HATES when guys are crashing and getting hurt. If he builds big difficult whoops sections, yeah it's cool for the pros and semi-pros, but then you get some sports guys that try to ride like the pros and makes a three sled pile up.
I'd love it if we had a MASSIVE whoops section. I'm talking one that you tripple into and then have to tripple/double another 4 times to get out of, and all so close together that you don't have time to make a mistake. Then right into a HUGE double and even BIGGER tripple. Then another mile long section of tripple and doubles. But I realize that the tracks are build for everyone, vintage to age classes to pros, so I deal with it and make the best of it. I'm done ranting now.
B) lack of time
C) lack of effort
D) people would crash their brains out and his insurance would go up
Realistically, most tracks don't get built until Friday, and usually by someone who has never built a track other than the one for that one hillcross every year. They have no idea what we're capable of doing on sleds.
The X-Games were for the best riders, and the track was built just for GOOD riders. Throw someone who doesn't have a lot of experience out there on a fast sled = big crash. Wally HATES when guys are crashing and getting hurt. If he builds big difficult whoops sections, yeah it's cool for the pros and semi-pros, but then you get some sports guys that try to ride like the pros and makes a three sled pile up.
I'd love it if we had a MASSIVE whoops section. I'm talking one that you tripple into and then have to tripple/double another 4 times to get out of, and all so close together that you don't have time to make a mistake. Then right into a HUGE double and even BIGGER tripple. Then another mile long section of tripple and doubles. But I realize that the tracks are build for everyone, vintage to age classes to pros, so I deal with it and make the best of it. I'm done ranting now.
well said, pretty much took the words out of my mouth. i think we need to ad more rythym sections, also im getting sick of these doubles that are so snapy, all they do is kick you high in the air. Not saying i dont like going high in the air, but it seems like if they had just a little more snow they could leave the gaps the same but build the jumps bigger and taller with more of a smooth slope. I told them i would go the friday morning before every race and help out with the build as i have ran plenty of groomers and dozers etc. you name it. but he just kind of shrugged it off. We need a racer to build the tracks so that it gets done the way we want, not some person who just drags and grooms the ski hills all day.
The guy at giants ridge has been building the track i beleive since they started having races there so hes knows what he is doing. But yes the tracks could be longer. They definately could make a longer course at the ridge as there are many different runs there. Im curious to see how the track is gunna be at Spirit Mountain this year being on a new hill and hopefully not a slush run off the start with rocks sticking out just a short ways up the hill like last yr.
I'm just glad we don't have that damn turn with a light post in the middle of it at Spirit if we switch runs! And that big rock on the right side that ALWAYS gets uncovered. Nothing worse that when they had a fairly big double going into the corner. I landed on the back of Matty P there once and then almost hit the post. I was just planning on using the berm as a landing, but I guess he didn't have the same idea....
All i am sayin is that the tracks shouldnt be for all ages and racers...the track should have big doubles and triples for the big boys to go over, if the sport, women and beginners dont want to hit them then they dont have to. If the sport wants to grow like they want it to then there gonna have to make the tracks more technical. I am a backcountry rider and all i ride is technical areas....its hard for me to go into hillcross and to see the person with most hp win the race and not the best rider....I really wish that they would let the semis and pro design the tracks....yes im venting but i think this would be AWESOME for the sport!!!
and same goes for the big air contest....why should you have to run the course before you hit the jump. Why not let the person that wants to go as fast and as far as he thinks he can go win? To me it seems like you run the course and the person that has the most hp after that last jump is gonna go the farthest.......just some more venting on my part...now im ready for bed. see you all at the the same old track in portage
My turn to chime in – track location and length is pretty much dictated by the ski hill run length and spectator viewability. The ridge is nice because the spectators can get half way up the hill and watch – as well as see the start and finish without much movement (think BIR Drag races). Spirit sucks because you can see three piddly jumps and a big booter at the end. It is what it is…
The tracks on the other hand do never seem to change. I would venture to guess that more parts get broken on flat *** landings then on a well placed double. The problem is that the doubles for some racers should be singles for others – and would provide that edge that they need to get ahead and they get tried (see ben deaton and think entry level racers) Anyone remember when Justin Tate tripled up the face of the hill at Biwabik? I think that was the same race he jumped the start, lost three sled lengths and still won. So what is the solution? Nobody wants to watch table top after table top, and small doubles “provide separation” as Wally would say, but where is the technicality of any of this?
I am not sure if Wally gives the groomer operators any input as to track design – but I know they sure don’t seem to listen to the racers when it comes to what we want. They will touch up any areas that are noted to be problems or “unsafe” but as far as track layout it seems that we might be battling the groomer driver and what he thinks is right. I know several drivers have tried to help out with the build, but I have yet to see that help. Everyone talks about the track at the ridge about 5 years back where it was double double double double… where HAVE those gone?
I will be at the Ridge early on Friday so I will see if I can go for a ride in the groomer and get some insight as to what they are thinking. I would bet it will be the same track as in the past though.
The tracks on the other hand do never seem to change. I would venture to guess that more parts get broken on flat *** landings then on a well placed double. The problem is that the doubles for some racers should be singles for others – and would provide that edge that they need to get ahead and they get tried (see ben deaton and think entry level racers) Anyone remember when Justin Tate tripled up the face of the hill at Biwabik? I think that was the same race he jumped the start, lost three sled lengths and still won. So what is the solution? Nobody wants to watch table top after table top, and small doubles “provide separation” as Wally would say, but where is the technicality of any of this?
I am not sure if Wally gives the groomer operators any input as to track design – but I know they sure don’t seem to listen to the racers when it comes to what we want. They will touch up any areas that are noted to be problems or “unsafe” but as far as track layout it seems that we might be battling the groomer driver and what he thinks is right. I know several drivers have tried to help out with the build, but I have yet to see that help. Everyone talks about the track at the ridge about 5 years back where it was double double double double… where HAVE those gone?
I will be at the Ridge early on Friday so I will see if I can go for a ride in the groomer and get some insight as to what they are thinking. I would bet it will be the same track as in the past though.
hows the backcountry sled today? Not to be a prick, but how bout a shorter skid?
So does anyone ever just sit back and ask the questions of......Where did everyone go that use to show up at these things??? Remember 5 years ago when you could show up at a race, see a handful of factory pros there and actually walk away from a weekend with a good amount of money in hand because there was riders there. Ever wonder why they all stopped showing up??? ITS BECAUSE THEY GOT TIRED OF ALL THE B.S.!!!!! I tell you what, every weekend back then there would be jumps that only a few people could make, did people get hurt.....YES but anyone that gets on a race sled and calls themselves a racer knows that its something that could happen to them. Its part of the sport and Wally needs to realize that. There is a reason the entries are down and nobody shows up anymore.... They don't care!!!!!!!! Just like the group of riders back then, it appears the riders now are becoming sick and tired of it. Pro's would go out of their way then to make it to these races. Remember Tate and Eckstrom back in the welch days? They would race the indoor in fargo then get in a car and drive all night to get back and sleep in the parking lot before coming to race at a hillcross. They did it for 2 reasons.... A) They had fun at these things and B) They made MONEY!!!! When the money left, the people left.
Where are all the factory teams now? Geneva was a few weeks ago see any of them yet? Will Scheuring be in Biwabik??? I'm sure but its because ten miles from his shop but will his riders wanna be there? Probably not! Anyone see Eckstrom in Duluth last year??? NO and the guy lives there. Its a decaying sport and there is no reason to stick around in my mind....
Where are all the factory teams now? Geneva was a few weeks ago see any of them yet? Will Scheuring be in Biwabik??? I'm sure but its because ten miles from his shop but will his riders wanna be there? Probably not! Anyone see Eckstrom in Duluth last year??? NO and the guy lives there. Its a decaying sport and there is no reason to stick around in my mind....
I would love to run a shorter track, unfortunately I cant afford two sleds in one year....and I would NEVER trade my mountain sled for a race sled....any more questions?
the reason is there are no factory teams is because the took Hill-X out of X-Games.(thats my belief anyways) The Bauerly Race team shows up for the last half of the Hill-x races. Schuering and Eckstrum were at Giants Ridge last year, Bobby Lepage was at Spirit Mountain last year. I race Hill-X cause its fun, not for the money. I go to have a good time and meet new people which i have the past 2 years racing hill-x.
X Games for hillcross was a short lived test, It took to long to build the track there being that they had to use the hills used for other skier and snowboard comps. Have you ever been to X to see the set up? The bauerly race team showed up at two hillcrosses last year, so this year they have had the opportunity to show up since brainerd. Ross and Duncan showed up at brainerd but how about the rest? Were they in Cascade? Bauerly's are a great family race team and they will go out of there way to help people that they feel deserve it. They have proven that they belong on top of the National circuit with Paul scoring SkiDoo's only win on the circuit in semi pro for the year. Does it not say something to you when Eckstrom doesnt even show up in his home town. Nothing against DJ because if I was him I wouldnt show up either. For you it might be about the fun and meeting people but for the people that do this for a living it is about the money and exposure and Hillcross lost there ability to provide this. I don't blame you for racing for the fun. I wish it was that way for everyone but business is business. How many pro's showed up to try and qualify for X when they had it? Do you remember? Not that many. When everyone was showing up at these events they were one day with big payouts and EVERYONE was having fun..... Its not fun for everyone anymore and thats why the people are gone and the tracks suck.
Anyone remember Biwabik last year when Hiniker was racing for Deaton and didn't run qualifying on Saturday, came through the LCQ's and qualified for his finals on Sunday. Wally wouldn't let him race the finals because he said Hiniker had an advantage.....What advantage? Hiniker only hurt himself for not getting points in his classes. But lets go back a few years when it was no problem for Scheuring to show up a day late and still run all the classes. Oh and how about when Tucker qualified for X in duluth a few years prior???? Anyone remember that year. Wally ran X games in a year long points chase and magically Tucker shows up and suddenly there is an extra spot to give out at Duluth??? Its funny how his rules can be stretched at times. Its a joke of a circuit and its just going to keep getting worse!
I do it for the fun of it. some say thats stupid and crazy, but whatever i know that i will never be good enough on a snowmobile to make a living off of it. Its still a fun hobbie, and lets face it not many hobbies are cheap anymore if you want to be good at it. So we all wrap thousands of dollars a year into racing a handfull of races. Who really cares, quit the *****in, if it really bothers some of you that much dont race. Otherwise just deal with it like everyonelse, the last few years the tracks have sucked more and more and obviously no one has done anything about, nor does it look like anything will be done about it. As matt said, A) lack of snowB) lack of timeC) lack of effort
D) people would crash their brains out and his insurance would go up. Thats wallys outlook and thats just the way it is.
D) people would crash their brains out and his insurance would go up. Thats wallys outlook and thats just the way it is.
Kepple's got the right idea with it- it's just for fun. I mean I'd love to see hillcross get huge again. I was just working on my website some more and looking at my results from when I first started racing. In Brainerd 2004, there were over 30 entries in the sport 500 class. That was some serious money making for hillcross. Wally makes the same amount of money from each pro entry as he does with each sport entry, well maybe not quite as much since he has to pay for an extra 4 trophies in sport, but still that huge number of entries made more money for him. It made it easier to add more money to king of the hills and the pro classes to draw more riders. I'd love to see added moeny in the Pro classes again, but I know that unless the lower classes are full, there's no chance of it. Either way- I'll keep racing hillcross because I have fun with it. It's a great group of guys to race with and go to the bars with after. I hope that this TV deal helps get more riders into the sport, and more sponsors. I'd like to see it so that the Pro's weren't spending so much money to race, but then again that makes the people who are there so much more dedicated.
You can complain about hillcross all you want, but it is what it is. Enjoy it. There's always room for improvement and suggestions, but they've got to be realistic. Try to think of it from Wally's point of view before you go telling him that we need 150 foot tripple that kicks you 40 feet into the air. It'll get you a much better response if you've thought of it from his shoes first.
You can complain about hillcross all you want, but it is what it is. Enjoy it. There's always room for improvement and suggestions, but they've got to be realistic. Try to think of it from Wally's point of view before you go telling him that we need 150 foot tripple that kicks you 40 feet into the air. It'll get you a much better response if you've thought of it from his shoes first.
I just started this post to see what you guys thought. I just started racin hillcross and I didnt know if these are the types of tracks you guys like or what the deal is. I do it for the fun of it too obviously, if your doin it for money then your in the wrong sport. It is just something for me to do after the main part of winter is over and I am not heading out west every weekend. So just to let everyone know I didnt start this post to bit*% about hillcross at all.....I love hillcross. But there are definitely things they could improve about it.
One other little comment on hillcross- we're like the WNBA racing. Nobody really takes us seriously, we somehow still manage to get on TV, and the total black sheep of snowmobile racing. It's just the players and their family and friends who really care about the sport.
S
slednutz
Active member
This is my first year going to the hillcross races and I just mainly go with my buddies and have been watching and will be doing hill drags next weekend with my mountain sled. There are things that yes could be changed but form what I have seen and this being my first year and not knowing anybody this just seems like a great group of guys that go to the races everybody know each other and have a good time and that is kind of in a sense what this hillcross circuit is all about.
