Hi, not a sledder, but have some questions about Hwy 20....

[montejw360]

I don't have a snowmobile, I hope you don't hold that against me. I'm looking for information about going up to Washington Pass on Hwy 20. I want to ride up there on a bicycle with big fat tires on it, but I have to follow a snowmobile track. I've searched the web a bit for trip reports of sledders going up there, but have come up empty.

So, here's the question, does this trip get done much? I was just talking to a friend and the thing he told me about was the big avalanche gullies around Liberty Bell. Sounds like those things can dump a lot of snow over the road. I would guess once any of them have covered the road it's going to be that way until spring. Unless WSDOT does some minor preventative slide clearing during the winter?

So I guess I'm asking for information on when/if you would make this trip. I'd need 3-4 days of good weather after a trail has been put in for my trip to Washington Pass and back. Oh yeah, I'd be going in from the west side, Diablo I think is where the hwy is gated.

thanks,
Monte

 

[TooDeepTodd]

Whaaaaaaat

Not to be rude but I think you may want to do a little more research before you plan this type of trip. Hwy 20 is my stompin grounds and liberty bell to the summit of Washington pass is no joke. First of all...DOT does NOTHING to maintain that area once it closes for the winter which it already has. This means that whatever snow falls (or slides) is there until it melts. The chutes have already slid twice this year and will continue to do so until spring. There are a total of 5-6 major slide chutes in the corners below the summit that are BARELY passable on a mountain sled. The slides pile up on the rodeway at easily 20 ft high and the rode itself will have snow over the top of the rode signs. I think your concept of a snowmobile TRAIL may be slightly misguided, it will be a single track wide and is not created by a groomer...it is created by the first guy who goes through. It is a path ON TOP of the snow, not a trail and your tires will go straight down through it.

If you are looking for a stretch of 3-4 days to do this ride...I recommend sometime between July and August otherwise take a beacon with you so that the helo can locate your body.

 

[KMMAC]

Thing is,, it snows so frequently up there this time of year that to get 3 or 4 good days is asking for alot. Do you realize how deep the snow gets back in there? There is no grooming, and the sleds that do go over the pass don't necessarily create a path so to speak. The riding is kind of a free for all if that's the way to say it. The slides are passable not sure if I would want to carry a bike across one of them though. The weather is very unpredictable so not sure this is something you should do at least not by yourself. Hope this helps.

 

[Flakey]

Snowest, saving greenies lives one at a time....

 

[rmk all the way]

also after about a day of people going up there parts of the road will get dug up and there can be ruts up to 3 or 4 feet deep some times. They ware you out on a sled so i would hate ridding a bike over it.

 

[skidoo cowboy]

It sounds to me like you haven't researched this very much. For starters if your coming from the west side and are worried about the liberty bell slides? They are on the east side of the summit. Let me know when your going to ride it because i want to come up and laugh at you.

 

[Wapow]

I don't have a snowmobile, I hope you don't hold that against me. I'm looking for information about going up to Washington Pass on Hwy 20. I want to ride up there on a bicycle with big fat tires on it, but I have to follow a snowmobile track. I've searched the web a bit for trip reports of sledders going up there, but have come up empty.

So, here's the question, does this trip get done much? I was just talking to a friend and the thing he told me about was the big avalanche gullies around Liberty Bell. Sounds like those things can dump a lot of snow over the road. I would guess once any of them have covered the road it's going to be that way until spring. Unless WSDOT does some minor preventative slide clearing during the winter?

So I guess I'm asking for information on when/if you would make this trip. I'd need 3-4 days of good weather after a trail has been put in for my trip to Washington Pass and back. Oh yeah, I'd be going in from the west side, Diablo I think is where the hwy is gated.

thanks,
Monte

It's "possible" to do that trip in the spring, once the snow on the roadbed has gone through multiple melt freeze cycles. But why wouldn't you just do it on skis? Would be no problem to make that trip on modern touring gear pretty much anytime, provided avy conditions are reasonable. But following sled tracks in powder conditions would be next to impossible on any bike, especially carrying all the extra gear you'll need to stay out there for several days (and you'd better be prepared for it to take more than 4 days btw). You'd just wind up carrying or pushing your bike the whole way IMO.

 

[augerin]

How wide are the tires your putting on your bike? Post a pic of it.

 

[montejw360]

there's a theme starting here. Please don't think something like this can't be done. the Iditarod Trail (it gets "raced") goes from Anchorage to Nome, 1000+ miles, snowmachines, dog sleds, skiers and bikes. It's not "groomed" either. Just a track put in by snowmobiles and dog sleds. If the snow-machines don't make/break a trail, the bikes are pretty much stopped. But there are snow-machines there most of the time, so it works.

Yeah, it might sound a bit of a stretch, but ****IF**** the conditions are right, it could be done. that's why I'm here, doing the research, asking about the "trail" you guys put in. if it's totally unorganized, i.e. a maze going up the road, then no, it probably wouldn't work. Bikes with 3.7" wide tires on snowmobile trails does work in the right conditions.

Winter mountaineering, been there, done that. You guys aren't the only ones having fun in the woods in winter.

Anyone got a good set of pics on the web of a trip up there? I'd really like to see some pics of the avalanche chutes.

Monte

 

[montejw360]

It sounds to me like you haven't researched this very much. For starters if your coming from the west side and are worried about the liberty bell slides? They are on the east side of the summit. Let me know when your going to ride it because i want to come up and laugh at you.

No, I'm just starting to research it. That's why I made the post, have to start somewhere. If the slides are on the east side, that's all the better. I knew there were big chutes up there, but didn't know where. Now I know where some of them are.

 

[montejw360]

How wide are the tires your putting on your bike? Post a pic of it.

Not my bikes, but here's pic. The pressure in the tires can be as low as 3 psi, so there is a lot of "float".

 

[Snowlover]

Expect to get wise comments from some of this crowd. My advice is get some experience on other trails around the area before going there. Like mentioned, it is not a formal, designated trail and most likely, sled trails will go up steep sections that don't follow the boring road.

Spring conditions on a hard packed and frozen trail would be possible, but most mountain snowmobilers abhor trails and if there is one that is used heaviy enough to pack solid, and not groomed, you will have moguls that you would hate.

Just picture getting on that bike and going up the face of black diamond ski run. That is what you will find outside of formal groomed trails.

 

[theultrarider]

there's a theme starting here. Please don't think something like this can't be done. the Iditarod Trail (it gets "raced") goes from Anchorage to Nome, 1000+ miles, snowmachines, dog sleds, skiers and bikes. It's not "groomed" either. Just a track put in by snowmobiles and dog sleds. If the snow-machines don't make/break a trail, the bikes are pretty much stopped. But there are snow-machines there most of the time, so it works.

Yeah, it might sound a bit of a stretch, but ****IF**** the conditions are right, it could be done. that's why I'm here, doing the research, asking about the "trail" you guys put in. if it's totally unorganized, i.e. a maze going up the road, then no, it probably wouldn't work. Bikes with 3.7" wide tires on snowmobile trails does work in the right conditions.

Winter mountaineering, been there, done that. You guys aren't the only ones having fun in the woods in winter.

Anyone got a good set of pics on the web of a trip up there? I'd really like to see some pics of the avalanche chutes.

Monte

Hello, Alaska here,

The irondog trail may be 1000+ miles to nome, but the bikers only ride out about 100 and back. that first 100 miles aor so is mostly frozen lakes and rivers and is well groomed by GROOMERS pulling 12' wide drags. Also that are seldom has more than 3' of snow on the level. They also get frequent temps to -40 to -50. This makes that trail like cement. You couldd often ride that trail with skinny little road race bike tires. Don't get me wrong here, I do commend your outdoor spirt as I think the other posters do as well. We often will ride our mx bikes on the snowmachine trails here WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE RIGHT!!! The true mountian trails around where I ride here in Alaska whould be a no go for a bike....I don't care who you are. Like others have said, they tend to be single file (15" wide) and moguls 4' deep spaced 5' apart, or when in the clear, everyone fans out leaving no real defined trail at all and you would sink out of sight. Keep doing your homework on this and it would be great if it would work out for you. If not, find another trip and enjoy.

 

[Kordero]

Monte - this sounds like an ambitious adventure but a worthy one. Will you be riding a pugsley? I don't think the sledders here have any idea what a small portion of the mtb folks do!! Snowmobilers if you're at all intersted check out these likns
http://lostcoastbike.blogspot.com/ I love their packable kayaks.
http://www.freespiritwear.com/arcticride.html

My first time driving over the pass since I was a kid was this summer. I've been moderately mtb'n the past several years and will ride a road bike every now and then. That being said, I thought if I was gonna ride my road bike up and over the pass West to East I'd better be in GREAT shape. To even think of a winter crossing on bike you must be ready for it!

I don't have any experience of sledding over the pass. But I can give you some advice you may already know. Don't do the ride in the spring time. The thaw cycle during the day will suck the life right out of you and your legs. Look for one of our great periods of crap (no snow) weather during January or February. We always get a period of at least a week where there is no snow in the forecast. The snow will likely be set up enough and good weather will draw out the sledders to pack down a trail for you to ride on.

Also, keep an eye on the avalanche forecast. You might get some great tips if you call N.Cascade Heli and get ahold of the guides tell 'em your story and see if they'd give you some local info on the avy forecast.

Good Luck!!

 

[Wapow]

there's a theme starting here. Please don't think something like this can't be done. the Iditarod Trail (it gets "raced") goes from Anchorage to Nome, 1000+ miles, snowmachines, dog sleds, skiers and bikes. It's not "groomed" either. Just a track put in by snowmobiles and dog sleds. If the snow-machines don't make/break a trail, the bikes are pretty much stopped. But there are snow-machines there most of the time, so it works.

Yeah, it might sound a bit of a stretch, but ****IF**** the conditions are right, it could be done. that's why I'm here, doing the research, asking about the "trail" you guys put in. if it's totally unorganized, i.e. a maze going up the road, then no, it probably wouldn't work. Bikes with 3.7" wide tires on snowmobile trails does work in the right conditions.

Winter mountaineering, been there, done that. You guys aren't the only ones having fun in the woods in winter.

Anyone got a good set of pics on the web of a trip up there? I'd really like to see some pics of the avalanche chutes.

Monte

Good point, but the difference between the Iditarod and HWY 20 is the elevation gain IMO. It's one thing to follow a well packed snomo track on the flats, versus climbing a constant grade over an inconsistently packed track. I believe the Northwest Glacier Cruisers snomo club has an annual ride into WA Pass from the W, so you may find "optimal" conditions the day after their trip, provided it's not snowing. I still predict you'll be pushing your bike a majority of the time. If that sounds like fun to you then I say give'r. BTW - These pics should answer your questions pretty well: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/sets/72157614387037548/

 

[4Z]

Monte,
Way more challenging than spinning up the Yenta river but still, in the right conditions, realistic challenge.

Flakey, I have 3 mountain bikes and love to ride. Right now don't own a sled, does that make me a greenie?

 

[montejw360]

Monte - this sounds like an ambitious adventure but a worthy one. Will you be riding a pugsley? I don't think the sledders here have any idea what a small portion of the mtb folks do!! Snowmobilers if you're at all intersted check out these likns
http://lostcoastbike.blogspot.com/ I love their packable kayaks.
http://www.freespiritwear.com/arcticride.html

My first time driving over the pass since I was a kid was this summer. I've been moderately mtb'n the past several years and will ride a road bike every now and then. That being said, I thought if I was gonna ride my road bike up and over the pass West to East I'd better be in GREAT shape. To even think of a winter crossing on bike you must be ready for it!

I don't have any experience of sledding over the pass. But I can give you some advice you may already know. Don't do the ride in the spring time. The thaw cycle during the day will suck the life right out of you and your legs. Look for one of our great periods of crap (no snow) weather during January or February. We always get a period of at least a week where there is no snow in the forecast. The snow will likely be set up enough and good weather will draw out the sledders to pack down a trail for you to ride on.

Also, keep an eye on the avalanche forecast. You might get some great tips if you call N.Cascade Heli and get ahold of the guides tell 'em your story and see if they'd give you some local info on the avy forecast.

Good Luck!!

Hey Kordero,
No, not a Pugsley, a Fatback. Same thing, just a different in certain aspects. Designed by a shop in Anchorage.

You bring up some good tips on the snow conditions, thanks. That's why I posted here. Yeah, it's got to be consolidated snow in the track, powder doesn't work. Spring corn is for skiing, if I skied anymore.

Monte

 

[Flakey]

Monte,
Way more challenging than spinning up the Yenta river but still, in the right conditions, realistic challenge.

Flakey, I have 3 mountain bikes and love to ride. Right now don't own a sled, does that make me a greenie?

They're lurking among us!!!

Greenie..... j/k!

 

[MOONMAN]

Monte,
Way more challenging than spinning up the Yenta river but still, in the right conditions, realistic challenge.

Flakey, I have 3 mountain bikes and love to ride. Right now don't own a sled, does that make me a greenie?

Time to start "sucking up" to Fordman.... Art say's he's a great sponsor!

 

[ericbigbore]

Monte,

It's totally doable in the right conditions. Just keep posting on this site when you get close to going and you will get conditions updates. You will want to wait for one of our guaranteed 3 week dry spells, usually around early January or wait until the spring hard pack like others said.

The road will get beat down plenty for you, just be quick through the Avey shoots and you should be fine. The negativity you hear on this site should not discourage you, were just not used to bikes on the snow in the winter.

Post up when you go and I'm sure you will have lots of peeps from this site looking out for you. Snowmobilers are a very helpful group in general. Eric