Help with 09 D8???

[DragonSlayer1]

I have an 09 d8 with the 163. I have the slp single and have recently installed the slp recommendations in clutching. At the begining of the ride was pulling about 8150 rpms. During the ride the rpm reading kept getting progressivly worse. at the the end of the day I had it pinned and it was holding at 7500.

1. I have checked the motor mounts and they all seem fine.
2. I cleaned all of the exhaust valves.
3. All of the clutching seems to be in good condition

I have thought that it might fuel pump.

however, riding it in the field it feels like it is reving up fine and that the tach may be lying.

any suggestions?

thanks,

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I have an 09 d8 with the 163. I have the slp single and have recently installed the slp recommendations in clutching. At the begining of the ride was pulling about 8150 rpms. During the ride the rpm reading kept getting progressivly worse. at the the end of the day I had it pinned and it was holding at 7500.

1. I have checked the motor mounts and they all seem fine.
2. I cleaned all of the exhaust valves.
3. All of the clutching seems to be in good condition

I have thought that it might fuel pump.

however, riding it in the field it feels like it is reving up fine and that the tach may be lying.

any suggestions?

thanks,

Slayer, how many miles on your belt? I have seen a few times where for some reason the 15 belt will just quit..dont know if it gets oil on it or what but just wont perform...now how is the pto side front motor mount bolt? they are known for snapping....did the belt get super hot? or the clutches? you need to check and see if it broke a primary spring(also is it new?, I throw in fresh springs at the start of every season since they do weaken...)

 

[Ron]

Check clutch for heat....heat will lower R's. Since you changed clutching-now losing R's-I'd double check that clutch setup.

 

[DragonSlayer1]

clutching

I put a brand new belt on it before the ride (I have always used the ultramax xs). It seemed like the clutching were getting alittle hot. I pulled around on the motor and it didn't move anymore than the new one do.

I switched belts. Still had the same result.

 

[champyfz450]

I put a brand new belt on it before the ride (I have always used the ultramax xs). It seemed like the clutching were getting alittle hot. I pulled around on the motor and it didn't move anymore than the new one do.

I switched belts. Still had the same result.

Slayer could you please fill us in on what you have in your clutches right now?

 

[DragonSlayer1]

clutching

I am running the slp recommendation for the primmary. the slp blue/pink spring with the 68g mtx. I think. The stock secondary spring, with carls helix with some derine washers.

What confuses me is that it was running fine at the beging of the ride and by the end it's a dog.

 

[OLD GOAT]

Welcome to the world of Dragon 800 ownership ! They are very moody beasts. Sometimes mine pulls 8100-8200, sometimes 7600. Sometimes it idles ok and sometimes it does not. I have pretty much given up on expecting consistant performance out of mine. I have gotten to the point that if it runs, it's a good day.

 

[TIM]

my dragon never held rpm's all season. This sled definately has not lived up to its expectations.

 

[MNSLEDNECK56308]

Would it get better after a break and the motor/clutch was cool, or just kept losing all day regardless of motor/clutch temp?

 

[aebsledder]

seems to be a common theme

Welcome to the world of Dragon 800 ownership ! They are very moody beasts. Sometimes mine pulls 8100-8200, sometimes 7600. Sometimes it idles ok and sometimes it does not. I have pretty much given up on expecting consistant performance out of mine. I have gotten to the point that if it runs, it's a good day.

Oh man, I am experiencing some serious buyers remorse. You pretty much described exactly what mine does. Is it just me or does it seem like if you drop 10K on a sled you should expect consistent performance as long as it is properly maintained? I am super frustrated with mine.

 

[DragonSlayer1]

Oh man, I am experiencing some serious buyers remorse. You pretty much described exactly what mine does. Is it just me or does it seem like if you drop 10K on a sled you should expect consistent performance as long as it is properly maintained? I am super frustrated with mine.

I;m serriously considering jumping ship

 

[JUSTIN]

I have a 09 D8 with the SLP pipe on it also with cylinder porting and the head shaved, I am running a Carl's Cycle setup in the clutching and they only have me running 10/62 weights in the primary for 6000-9000ft riding.
I do not have any experience with the MTX weights but it seems like to much weight. What is your engine temp. when you are loosing rpm's? and what elevation are you riding at?
I also had a issue last year on a diffirent sled that my rpm's kept dropping of when the sled got warm and it turned out to be the belt I was using, it was a good quality aftermarket belt but it did not work well on that sled once the clutches got warm.
Good luck!

 

[skooter]

Welcome to the world of Dragon 800 ownership ! They are very moody beasts. Sometimes mine pulls 8100-8200, sometimes 7600. Sometimes it idles ok and sometimes it does not. I have pretty much given up on expecting consistant performance out of mine. I have gotten to the point that if it runs, it's a good day.

mine is the same way thought i was the only one who had a moody dragon getting annoying when the wifes xp is beating me :face-icon-small-

 

[Cardiac Kid]

Wow
New clutching-- The thinks I have seen that drop RPM in clutching are the following.
Bad primary spring. If you have your old set up put it back in and see what happens. If everything comes back something is bad and I would bet on the primary spring.
Belt-- it seemed to run good with the new belt but each clutch set up is matched to the belt compounds used with that setup. Call SLP and ask if they have used that belt with their setup. If not see if you can borrow a good belt with factory numbers on it from a friend and if it works don't give it back until the end of the day.
Take the secondary off and go through it. Make sure it is working and that something wasn't incorrect in the reassembly. Check spring for problem or strange wear.

With that all said. The number one cause of dragons having a very consistent low RPM is piston failure. We are all hoping this is a thing of the past with the new double ring piston and head design but it is worth looking into the exhaust or exhaust valves and seeing if the ring lands are eroding or shot. If so there you go back to the dealer. Hope you find it in the clutching somewhere.

 

[Ron]

I am running the slp recommendation for the primmary. the slp blue/pink spring with the 68g mtx. I think. The stock secondary spring, with carls helix with some derine washers.

What confuses me is that it was running fine at the beging of the ride and by the end it's a dog.

What altitude? With MTX weights you order 4 grams over the stock weight. If the sled came with 62's you may have the wrong MTX's...maybe should have the 65's and then add rivets to get the setup correct. MTX weights have a lot of flexibility but they aren't for everyone...they usually require some tuning (rivet changes) to get them right.
I'd try the 1115 Polaris belt (first) if you can borrow one, different belts often require different clutching setups.
It's a normal result to see R's drop after riding a while when weights are too heavy. First clutch heat, then R's drop, then lots of belt dust. You very likely have some excess belt wear too.

 

[aebsledder]

Alrighty, So I looked at my stock weights that I pulled out and they are 10-62's. My SLP weights are 68's. If I added rivets per SLP's recommendation for a single pipe at 6000-8000 feet I believe I would have had 2 grams in the belly and 1 gram in the tip? So this is 71 grams total, which is 5 grams over what slp recommends when ordering their weights. I am assuming that they are taking into account the extra oomph their pipe makes? I am wondering if I should try putting the stock weights back in? Seems like an outfit like SLP wouldn't overlook the clutching on their pipe sets, but I have nothing to lose I guess. I suppose if I am pulling crazy rpms I could go for the 65 gram weights and adjust from there? Too bad they are a hundred bucks a pop.

 

[BB454]

RPMs

We have found that 10-60 belly busters work better at 6-9k than the 10-62s that Carl's recommends. His helix is also cut with a different trasition point than the regular team helix. This allows the engine to hold RPMs better. I would not add any weight to those MTX weights, just the opposite, as mentioned above I think you are too heavy. Stick the stock 62s back in and see if it's better, may over rev at first but I think it will hold better. If that's the case then you know which way to go. If you find you need to go lighter and can't swap weights with someone, I believe you can drill the ones you have or grind them. Start by grinding the sides to lighten them up evenly then you can drill the tips to fine tune them to get them to hold max RPM.

 

[Ron]

Alrighty, So I looked at my stock weights that I pulled out and they are 10-62's. My SLP weights are 68's. If I added rivets per SLP's recommendation for a single pipe at 6000-8000 feet I believe I would have had 2 grams in the belly and 1 gram in the tip? So this is 71 grams total, which is 5 grams over what slp recommends when ordering their weights. I am assuming that they are taking into account the extra oomph their pipe makes? I am wondering if I should try putting the stock weights back in? Seems like an outfit like SLP wouldn't overlook the clutching on their pipe sets, but I have nothing to lose I guess. I suppose if I am pulling crazy rpms I could go for the 65 gram weights and adjust from there? Too bad they are a hundred bucks a pop.

Here's a thread with most discussion covering MTX weights. You might get some setup info from here...zero in on your altitude and mods:
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128754

 

[DragonSlayer1]

What altitude? With MTX weights you order 4 grams over the stock weight. If the sled came with 62's you may have the wrong MTX's...maybe should have the 65's and then add rivets to get the setup correct. MTX weights have a lot of flexibility but they aren't for everyone...they usually require some tuning (rivet changes) to get them right.
I'd try the 1115 Polaris belt (first) if you can borrow one, different belts often require different clutching setups.
It's a normal result to see R's drop after riding a while when weights are too heavy. First clutch heat, then R's drop, then lots of belt dust. You very likely have some excess belt wear too.

I ride from 6000-9000. I agree on the clutch weight dropping solution. I think I'm going to drop it down to the 10-62's

 

[cascadesnowjunky]

Dont feel alone, my 09 d8 is the biggest pos I have ever had when it comes to runability. I have not been able to pull rpms no matter the clutch setup. Mine pulls 7850-8050 all the time. I can drop 10 grams of weight and the top end rpm will not change. I am currently running team silver primary 165-344 68 gram mtx with 2 grams in the belly, stock secondary helix 56-42-.36, team black white spring 160-260 with two derlin washers, and geared down to 2.27. With this setup it pulls hard in the low and mid range but quits pulling on top.I unload at 2500' and I ride mostly 4500-6500 feet. I also have slp single and lots of venting. I believe it still has a fuel map problem, mine is very lean in the middle and I am guessing way rich on top that is why it will not pull rpm. I am tired of spending tons of money on this thing and nothing helps. Now it looks like I will be buying a pc-v to try to get a map in this thing to make it run. I am also going to try a helix with a 38 degree finish angle to see if that will help with rpms and make it backshift quicker.