Help me understand

[shonuff]

I take my sled in to get the carbs cleaned at at local shop I really don't like, but they know ski doo and they are close. I had a feeling that they would say I needed this or that cause they always do. Anyway I get a call and they say they cleaned the carbs, but I need a new short block. They say I have a leak in the crank case and when they got the sled up to running temp they could tell that I'm loosing compression. I did a compression check of the top end before I took it in and they were both at 120. How do you check the compression of the bottom end? I told them not to do anything about that cause I could't afford anymore work. I ran the sled three times after and it seems just fine.

So me question is are they just trying to rip me off or is there any validity to there claim? I just don't know much about sleds.

Thanks!

 

[winter brew]

Ask them how they determined this. They could do a "leak down" test to find leaks, they may have seen something else, but to say you need a new engine is a little extreme. Depending on what/where the leak is, it is more likely it can be cheaply repaired with new seals or reseal the case halves.
A leak in the case will have no effect on the compression seen above the rings (like what a compression gauge shows you). But will suck air and cause it to run lean. I would be suspicious....find out the details and have them show you.

 

[ruffryder]

I thought if you had good compression when cold, but bad compression when warm that it was still a ring problem? That the rings have worn down and are no longer creating a tight fit when the cylinder expands due to the increase in temperature.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

exactly ruff... if its bottom end i really doubt that they found it unless the seal between the case halves is really bad and blowing chit everywhere.... make shure they explain to you really good what the problem is, the leak aint no block problem, just probably the case seal, and that doesnt exaclty just seperate.

 

[bullfrog123]

Had a similar situation happen to me back in the day. 96' XLT grenaded on the pto side and me not knowing anything took it to the local Poo dealer for repair. They bored and rebuilt it, but for $1300.00, for a top end only. Didn't even split the cases to find the chunks of piston that had fell down. I paid the bill, not knowing any better. Mind you this was LATE spring, and when winter came around 2nd ride out............... guess what? Yep, took the crank out due to debris in the crankcase, and NO warranty, imagine that. I talked to the other local (mom & pop shop), and his rebuild would have been roughly 6-700 bucks. Guess who gets my $? If I can't do the work myself, which is VERY seldom now days, unless it involves carbs, (I'm completely retarded when it comes to jetting and such).

Bottom line, get a 2nd opinion or some buddies who will help you out. Don't always trust a dealer just cuz they are a dealer. Or this site or other internet sites can provide a wealth of information for you to do things yourself and save a ton of cash.

That's the good thing about this and other sites, FREE INFORMATION!!!

 

[MTdream]

friend told me about a quickie check for crank seal, on the clutch side while running spray some WD-40 behind the clutch near the seal, and if it climbs in RPM then you have a leak issue there...this is just a quickie check and is good sign of crank seal issues...

 

[MARV1]

Sounds like they are trying to rip you off as they are cleaning your carbs which is something every sledder should be able to do on their own!

 

[diggerdown]

Pick the sled up and get it checked someplace else. They're trying to screw you over. Case leaks can be fixed, like Winter Brew said. Have them show you the test procedure and how they came to the conclusion that you needed a short block! Never heard that one before.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

yep wd 40...it works to check for vacuum leaks...as well starting fluid works well...both change rpm..if a rod hasn;t gone through the case it can be fixed some way if its leaking in my opinion cheaper then new case halfs..

 

[Killerk]

Like has been said, tell us exactly what they told you, or better yet what they wrote on the repair order.
I find it hard to beleive that they would do a lot of diagnosing, especially without talking to you.
However, it may be that the sled did not need the carbs gone through.
What were the symptoms that would make you to take the sled in for carb work?
There is a possibility that the issue was not carb related... They may have cleaned them, re-installed and still had a runability issue that led them to do more diagnosis to find the real issue.
It may have been something as simple as spraying carb and choke cleaner around the seals/sealing surfaces while running, or something different entirely.
Give us more info and we can help point you in the right direction.
Otherwise, we will all be guessing.

 

[shortstop20]

Where is this shop at? Just curious.

 

[Rob1334]

friend told me about a quickie check for crank seal, on the clutch side while running spray some WD-40 behind the clutch near the seal, and if it climbs in RPM then you have a leak issue there...this is just a quickie check and is good sign of crank seal issues...

Good call on this and repped ya, quickest check for it. Works on all engines, have done it many times when buying a vehicle to see the head gaskets. Be careful tho when using carb cleaner, as there is no oil base to it, and spraying for longer periods can damage the engine creating a very lean state to it, don't direct spray into the seems, but rather a "jetted mist" to be on the safe side.

Imagine that, a doo dealer trying to sell ya a new engine whenn doing carb work, previously had a doo and they tried to get me for all bank account too...

 

[shonuff]

The original reason I took the sled in was to get a new DESS key programmed and I figured why I was there I would have them clean the carbs. But lets start at the beginning:

So I blew a belt while riding and after that the sled wouldn't idle. I figured my idle jet was clogged from debris when the belt blew (the friggin thing disintergrated into a million pieces). I was needing a new DESS key to I had them clean the carbs at the same time cause I wanted to go ride the next day.
So they clean the carbs and say I'm loosing compression while the sled is running (how do they do this anyway?) This shop is called RPM in Lakewood COand I fickin hate them but they are the only one around that could do the DESS for me. I told them don't touch anything else and picked it up.
I rode the sled for 2 more rides (100 miles or so) and it rode fine, at least idle fine.
After I blew the belt tho I have a low end bog. I have to feather the throttle to get the rpms up but fter I the clutch engages it rips just fine. I think I have debris in the clutch which is causing the low end bog, or could it be the crank seal?

I really appreciate all the responses!!!

 

[shortstop20]

Hopefully the crank didn't get bent when you blew the belt.

I will let someone wiser than me give a diagnosis.

 

[Rob1334]

What kind of sled is it?

I use to have a '98 583, was racing a semi in the ditch when the belt blew, NOTHING left except quarter sized pieces of rubber and BARE string, no clue how it could blow apart like that but was amazing to say the least...

When taking the belt off I noticed it was rapped around the inside of the primary clutch very tight and couldn't get it all out. Towed it back to the trailer about 5 miles, took it home, pulled the clutch, and it tore the middle of the seal out of the shaft rubber. Good catch because it would have burnt up real quick due to the lean state it would have caused. I would recommend pulling the clutch and checking the rubber seal and make sure it's not eaten from the chords in the belt.

Not sure if this would have happened on yours, but it sounds like they put the wrong size jets in it, that the carb is loading up with fuel, and by feathering it out you able to burn it out enough to make the sled run. Tear into that carb and see what jet they put in it, find a jetting chart, and check. The only time I ever had a shop clean carbs and change jets they fattened it up so much I couldn't keep dry plugs for half an hour. The old guy working in the shop told me I was just a kid that knew nothing about sleds and that it wasn't the carbs, but when I took the carb apart in front of him and showed him his wrong doing he said they were put in accidently then, ya right!

Good luck bud, my guess is just bad jetting but double check that seal!!!

 

[Killerk]

Not very familiar with the PTO seal design on your sled, but there is a possibility the belt strands damaged the crank seal causing a lean condition which could cause an irratic idle.
Very easy to check with carb and choke while running.
Depending on how bad the belt blew or bound up, it could have possibly damaged the crank. It may be out of index.

 

[shonuff]

It's a 99 Summit X 670. When the belt blew there were pieces everywhere and strings around the clutch. I got what strings I could see, but it sounds like it may have damaged the seals. The idleling problem was before I took the sled in for a key and carb cleaning.

 

[Killerk]

Have you talked to the dealer and asked what was damaged and how they determined the problem?
If you let us know what they said needs to be replaced and why, it would help a lot.
I understand they said it needs a shortblock, but you need to find out from the dealer exactly what Part(s) have failed. (acording to them)

 

[Reeb]

Is there a line of grease under your belt guard? Base gasket leak? carb boot torn?
We need more info bud.

 

[shonuff]

Have you talked to the dealer and asked what was damaged and how they determined the problem?
If you let us know what they said needs to be replaced and why, it would help a lot.
I understand they said it needs a shortblock, but you need to find out from the dealer exactly what Part(s) have failed. (acording to them)

They said that I was loosing compression and I had a leaking crank case seal and I needed a short block. (I never heard of the term short block). What's involved in a leak down test i.e. how is it performed and does it take a while to do? The reason I ask is I'm pretty sure they didn't work on the sled for very long since they were super busy and I had to talk the shop desk guy in to just cleaning the carbs.

I don't have any grease that looks like anything is leaking.