Heavy Steering

[bholmlate]

You cant really argue tha logic. That is one creditable explanation as to why Yamaha used a softer center shock. whether that is their reason they did it we will never know unless someone has a big blue phone in there office with a direct line to the Yamaha gods

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

The least aggressive ski's are stock skis IMO ....Polaris Grippers out of all stock skis are probably the best of the bunch. The simplest way to decrease heavy steering caused by aggressive skis like PP or Mohawks or sleds with heavy front end for deep snow riding would be to decrease air pressure or spring load if your running coil over front shocks.... From the rear skid running your limiter straps all the way out will lighten up the entire front end including the sleds steering. Every 2S or 4S mountain snowmobile works

DPG

 

[rkm]

DPG, go actually measure the approach angle of a cat and polaris.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

The Proclimb is at 14 degrees while the Pro RMK is at 12 degrees. Perhaps not significant to most but enough to be noticeable to those who have ridden very nimble steerable sleds before....It's really not that big of a deal I have never owned any sled where the suspension worked perfect or was setup the same for every rider.

DPG

 

[bholmlate]

I may be wrong because its been a awhile but the first couple of years of the nytro MTX I think it was around 24 and then it decreased to 18 with the shorter front shock and newer front geometry That is still at least 4 degrees steeper then what the viper is today. Now please tell me that there is only one way to measure it because it. If there isn't there is no more reason to discuss the benefits if every MFR has a different way of measuring it

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

You might be think back when drop & rolls were popular. I'm told the actual measurement is verified under acceleration in a simulator with the skid transferring under load.

DPG

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Here a useful YouTube video titled Project Limiter Strap when operating at lower rpm speeds such as tree riding.

PS: If your a trail rider this is not advices.


DPG

 

[bholmlate]

If that title was supposed to act like a link it did not work for me. I just searched the internet using that title and its at the top of the search results

 

[off trail mike]

Interesting read,

I'd be pretty safe in saying there is no sled out there save maybe PowerHouse Customs that has ever built a skid with an approach angle any where near 14 degrees. And even though AC, Yami, TS, Poo all claim 18 degrees up front, I've measure the XM, Timbersled, and AC and are all in the 20-21 range (relative to ground). Yes the 08 Yami's were at 25+ making them even worse trenchers.

You don't want to go flatter IMO anyway. Simply put, if you decrease the approach angle to something below about 18 degrees, you move the first contact with the snow so far back, you will automatically increase weight on ski's and thus ski pressure, and not in a small way.

My XM rules when it comes to steering performance, and Yami should take a page out of their book to understand weight transfer and light steering.

All front ends look similar, but if you study them closely, you realize the "compromises" made by each manufacturer differ dramatically. The poo handles really well because it has raked spindles, a longish wheelbase, and is light enough to pull it off. If you put the viper engine in there is would would feel sluggish and heavy because of it.. It's been done.

Bottom line is a 4S needs rather different front end geometry to make it turn easier and handle better. Pretty sure the ProClimb chassis wasn't designed with a 4S in mind when originally conceived. It works surprisingly well, but could be much better.

OTM

 

[stingray719]

Interesting read,

I'd be pretty safe in saying there is no sled out there save maybe PowerHouse Customs that has ever built a skid with an approach angle any where near 14 degrees. And even though AC, Yami, TS, Poo all claim 18 degrees up front, I've measure the XM, Timbersled, and AC and are all in the 20-21 range (relative to ground). Yes the 08 Yami's were at 25+ making them even worse trenchers.

You don't want to go flatter IMO anyway. Simply put, if you decrease the approach angle to something below about 18 degrees, you move the first contact with the snow so far back, you will automatically increase weight on ski's and thus ski pressure, and not in a small way.

My XM rules when it comes to steering performance, and Yami should take a page out of their book to understand weight transfer and light steering.

All front ends look similar, but if you study them closely, you realize the "compromises" made by each manufacturer differ dramatically. The poo handles really well because it has raked spindles, a longish wheelbase, and is light enough to pull it off. If you put the viper engine in there is would would feel sluggish and heavy because of it.. It's been done.

Bottom line is a 4S needs rather different front end geometry to make it turn easier and handle better. Pretty sure the ProClimb chassis wasn't designed with a 4S in mind when originally conceived. It works surprisingly well, but could be much better.

OTM

Thanks for getting the thread back on topic. For those interested the spring that makes the Viper handle so much better (in my opinion) is specified above. Or you can search Google and screw your new sled up so bad it ends up in the "for sale" section. http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385344

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Dude you just stir BS where ever you post....

DPG

 

[icr]

Dude you just stir BS where ever you post....

DPG

It's no surprise he's even disliked on Totally Yamaha

 

[stingray719]

It's no surprise he's even disliked on Totally Yamaha

LOL! If you 3 disapprove I am doing something right. Yes the amount of private messages I get here and there prove your point eh? 3 guys from Wisconsin came out Thanksgiving weekend to ride with me but if you are a lurker on TY you knew that.

Its ok, sell your Pro and man up some and you too can ride a Yamaha.

 

[stingray719]

I have been told ZBROS has a 140 and 160 pound spring for this but I have not tested either.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Heavy steering

 

[BigFish BC]

Heavy steering

you should take the snowplow off befor you go riding.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

No dought you got to love the box stock setting. No big deal the stock limiters were in hole 3 so I let them out 2 holes for better transfer of weight taking the load off the front end....I Can See My Ski Tips Now.....Also increased the center shock preload 1 full turn...Front ski pressure at 75#....Rear Shock 145 #...Still not perfect but that's what happens when you compare to what you previously had. Suspensions as I'm sure you know are trial and error most adjustment can be made right in the field as long as you do one adjustment at a time everything should work AOK...Would help to have more snow to really push the suspension to see how it really performs.

DPG

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

I posted a short Video on YouTube titled "Suspension Adjustment Results " this is as far as I got with the limited snow we have...Still room for improvement.

DPG

 

[bholmlate]

Interesting read over in the ZBROZ kiss coupler thread the post is #12 from Yamahajohnson about the rear suspension development on the viper. if i knew how to steal the post and post in here i would but is it touches on certain things that have been discussed in this thread.

 

[yamahajohnson220]

Here ya go. I want to thank the person that first posted them on totallyamaha