health care
- Thread starter wrench2race
- Start date
If insurance was illegal, only illegals would have insurance....
Actually, it makes no sense, but I thought it was a nice jingle.
Actually, it makes no sense, but I thought it was a nice jingle.
Don't worry, we know you tried your best!!If insurance was illegal, only illegals would have insurance....
Actually, it makes no sense, but I thought it was a nice jingle.
Don't worry, we know you tried your best!!
Na, I simply see both sides of the "argument" here, which makes it tough for me to post on one side or the other.
xrated makes a great point with his November-December deductibles argument, and Chaz makes a good point with his "uninsured illegals" argument. So to simply post twice, saying "I agree" would be...lame. So, deciding that I'm "lame" I figured I would post a silly mockery of "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".
There's my explanation.
I know, just giving you a hard time.
Na, I simply see both sides of the "argument" here, which makes it tough for me to post on one side or the other.
xrated makes a great point with his November-December deductibles argument, and Chaz makes a good point with his "uninsured illegals" argument. So to simply post twice, saying "I agree" would be...lame. So, deciding that I'm "lame" I figured I would post a silly mockery of "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".
There's my explanation.
Unfortunately, this isn't a "both sides" argument. There are lots and lots of reasons for high insurance costs. Illegals are a part of it, we are a larger part of it, insurance / hospitals are another part of it, doctors are another part of it. There are lots of reasons why we have high costs. The biggest is that it is a screwed up system.
I don't think my employer should have anything to do with my retirement nor my insurance. I would like to take care of it all, thank you very much..
Obamacare / Pelosicare / Reidcare / Stallincare / Hitlercare...
NONE ARE ABOUT YOUR HEALTH. Get that through your thick skulls !
They all take CONTROL of your life & promise some measure of security.
All plans are STATED to fail to cover everyone.
All plans will KNOWINGLY increase the debt DRASTICALLY.
Anything to the contrary is a lie.
"Worrying about the poor" is charity at gun point. If you don't pay all the new taxes for this, they guns WILL come for you.
NONE ARE ABOUT YOUR HEALTH. Get that through your thick skulls !
They all take CONTROL of your life & promise some measure of security.
All plans are STATED to fail to cover everyone.
All plans will KNOWINGLY increase the debt DRASTICALLY.
Anything to the contrary is a lie.
"Worrying about the poor" is charity at gun point. If you don't pay all the new taxes for this, they guns WILL come for you.
The $200 billion "left over" from TARP they want to waste "creating jobs" would buy private insurance for the famous 30 million for several YEARS. Why not just do that?
Oh yeah. IT WOULDN'T GIVE THE OBAMA POWER OVER YOUR STUPID A$$ !
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Oh yeah. IT WOULDN'T GIVE THE OBAMA POWER OVER YOUR STUPID A$$ !
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So what is supposed to reduce the cost of health care? Illegals / uninsured are only part of the issue.
The health issue isn't about now or the next couple of years. It is about the expected cost of care in the next couple of decades. If costs keep increasing then they will get to unsustainable levels.
To address cost market forces MUST be in place.
Since the government compelled employers to handle healthcare insurance the consumer has been separated from the real bill. Get insurance OUT of the employer hands and into the employee (not into idiot government hands).
Remove state boundaries for insurance companies, without raping State's Rights.
Take care of stupid lawsuits and malpractice insurance rates.
Remove taxes on medical equipment (not raise them like these idiots will do).
Providers will have to become competitive. Rates will fall through the floor. Look at stuff that's not covered by insurance at all, like elective surgery. Quality goes up & price comes down.
It's that damn simple, but then that's not the real goal. They want POWER. They could give two $h!ts about your damn health!
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Since the government compelled employers to handle healthcare insurance the consumer has been separated from the real bill. Get insurance OUT of the employer hands and into the employee (not into idiot government hands).
Remove state boundaries for insurance companies, without raping State's Rights.
Take care of stupid lawsuits and malpractice insurance rates.
Remove taxes on medical equipment (not raise them like these idiots will do).
Providers will have to become competitive. Rates will fall through the floor. Look at stuff that's not covered by insurance at all, like elective surgery. Quality goes up & price comes down.
It's that damn simple, but then that's not the real goal. They want POWER. They could give two $h!ts about your damn health!
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very true, but there are a lot of different markets out there
I don't know about compelled... Do you even know how insurance was started?
I think the story goes something like this..
During the depression, hospitals were loosing money. They decided to create this thing called insurance and sell it to some school teachers (high school?) the teachers bought it. What was found was that by selling someone insurance, they were more likely to go to the hospital. It started gaining momentum.
The war started, and incomes / wages were frozen. There was a surplus of jobs and a deficit on workers. Companies began looking for other means of competing for workers. Offering insurance was one of them.
Then health care costs became a tax deductible expense. Then it started flying off... I think history has lost who made it tax deductible and why it was so...
Anyways, what is left is some screwed up system that grew on its own.
unless this allows insurance companies to get bigger, this will reduce the clout that insurance companies have over the hospital bill, resulting in higher costs. Remember that hospitals and insurance companies NEGOTIATE the costs. They aren't fixed.
this is a small part of the problem. Texas did tort reform, net result was no change to insurance premium prices.
I don't know about that one.. I guess so.
You are talking only about the relationship between insurance providers and people. What about the relationship between insurance providers an care providers?
Nothing is ever that simple. As to the control issue, you don't have it anyways. You insurance company does. If your employer offers insurance, then you have even less control.
I don't mind paying for my own insurance.. What I do mind is when I get to pay what the insurance I pay for is supposed to pay. IE: surgery supposed to be $2,000- my insurance says it should have only been $1,000. So I get to pay the leftover when I pay dang near that much every month for insurance to cover it? Bullsh!t
Nope, we have exactly one and it worked a lot better when government didn't play with it like they have since the 80s.
You miss the point entirely. Healthcare insurance is insuring your stuff and income, not your health. Consumers must handle the costs & bills directly like any other service they get.
Cost is cost. Who benefits from these tort suits? Lawyers, period.
You "guess" reducing a tax will reduce a cost?
ALL TAXES ARE PAID BY CONSUMERS.
Corporations do not pay taxes; they collect it from consumers.
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market, like housing market, like used auto markets, like insurance, like hospital expenses.
You mind explaining that one? I don't handle any costs and few bills for my insurance.
So why did you use this as a point for reducing costs?
agreed, but if taxes are a zero some game, then reducing taxes in one area, increases them in another area. Only looking at the taxes side.
How does "health insurance" guarantee your health? It doesn't, it guarantees your checking account.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiDoobyDoo
You miss the point entirely. Healthcare insurance is insuring your stuff and income, not your health. Consumers must handle the costs & bills directly like any other service they get.
You mind explaining that one? I don't handle any costs and few bills for my insurance.
Your genetics, environment, lifestyle and the healthcare you receive determine your health. If you need healthcare, then you've lost a battle in one of the other areas.
In America you get treatment, regardless of ability to pay. Then they may come after your checking account, if your insurance doesn't cover it.
You're gambling that you will become ill. The insurance company is gambling you will not become ill. In gambling someone wins & someone looses.
Healthcare is a SERVICE others provide, like legal services or garbage collection. None of these are a RIGHT. If you want someone else to pay for your life, then move to Cuba. My sister (raging liberal) was there a year or so ago. Absolute mess.
[/QUOTE]
WOW. Are you trying to make me jump off a building?
In the REAL world, there are very few zero SUM games. Taxation is not one of them. Only victims of liberal public education believe that economics is a zero sum game.
True it is not a right. Insurance IS someone else paying for your life. Isn't that how it works?
and yet they still rank higher then we do...
just making the point that if taxes are reduced from one area, it is very likely that they will be increased in another area. You are just shifting costs... nothing really has changed.
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Net results government produces nothing.
Government consumes every tax and fee dollar and lost opportunity costs as well.
EVERY government employee, department, building, car, ... is a burden on society. 100%
All of that is taken quite literally at gun point from Citizens. (try not paying taxes & see if someone doesn't show up with guns to haul your carcass away)
Government employees do not pay income taxes.
The government simply reduces their wages under the guise of taxes. The money to pay that person came from a private Citizen, to the gov., then to the gov. emp. It's a slight of hand or other type con game.
Reducing tax rates in one area does just that. The effect of that action may be more activity in that area. If tax rates are reduced on cars, more people will be inclined to buy. Net revenue dollars to the gov. will likely go up.
The famous "Bush tax cuts" reduced rates on EVERYONE about 3-4%. Net revenues to the government went through the roof!
Free markets generate more than the sum of its parts. It's produces ABUNDANCE.
'Command & control' systems (old USSR, Cuba, China,...) offer only misery and suffering.
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Government consumes every tax and fee dollar and lost opportunity costs as well.
EVERY government employee, department, building, car, ... is a burden on society. 100%
All of that is taken quite literally at gun point from Citizens. (try not paying taxes & see if someone doesn't show up with guns to haul your carcass away)
Government employees do not pay income taxes.
The government simply reduces their wages under the guise of taxes. The money to pay that person came from a private Citizen, to the gov., then to the gov. emp. It's a slight of hand or other type con game.
Reducing tax rates in one area does just that. The effect of that action may be more activity in that area. If tax rates are reduced on cars, more people will be inclined to buy. Net revenue dollars to the gov. will likely go up.
The famous "Bush tax cuts" reduced rates on EVERYONE about 3-4%. Net revenues to the government went through the roof!
Free markets generate more than the sum of its parts. It's produces ABUNDANCE.
'Command & control' systems (old USSR, Cuba, China,...) offer only misery and suffering.
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You had me until this stuff... I think you are making a very large causality leap there
sure buddy....
HOLY CRAP RUFF.
How old are you? We do NOT live in the same universe.
And WTF does that piece of communism called Cuba "rank better than us" in?
poverty? misery? jobless? absence of a life?
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I'm done. Arguing with a liberal is like wrestling a pig. The pig has fun and you get covered in sh!t.
p.s. please move to Cuba if it's so fukcing wonderful
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Error: Id10T
How old are you? We do NOT live in the same universe.
And WTF does that piece of communism called Cuba "rank better than us" in?
poverty? misery? jobless? absence of a life?
...
I'm done. Arguing with a liberal is like wrestling a pig. The pig has fun and you get covered in sh!t.
p.s. please move to Cuba if it's so fukcing wonderful
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Error: Id10T
Ruff
You have no idea how offensive you & your statement are. I am an AMERICAN. I pay my own way.
Your freeloader concepts, your absolute ignorance of fact and absence of apparent education slay me. You are completely prepared to *exist* in a communist society.
Please stop ruining my America and move to a communist state of your choosing.
Thank you.
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You have no idea how offensive you & your statement are. I am an AMERICAN. I pay my own way.
Your freeloader concepts, your absolute ignorance of fact and absence of apparent education slay me. You are completely prepared to *exist* in a communist society.
Please stop ruining my America and move to a communist state of your choosing.
Thank you.
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I was wrong, they are ranked 39.. we are 37, just better then slovenia it seems.. note they stopped ranking do to the difficulty and I am sure, the ambiguity of the results.
