Have you seen this? Another organization wanting to limit sled access.

[CatWoman]

Another note.....one of the groups in cahoots with WWA is Swan View Coalition (they support each other). A lawsuit was filed last year for a mandatory closure to snowmobiling on March 15. After much fighting and going down to the wire, Judge Malloy ruled against that closure date (though he didn't want to).

Now, it's back in play again. That's right, Judge Malloy placed that March 15 deadline back in place until he can *further review the new lawsuits*. That means our LEGAL riding season is December 1 - March 15.

Beware this bunch......they could be in your backyard next.

 

[suitcase]

I read that too and it was a good one lots of info. I can not remember which issue, I'm going through some old ones right now, to see if I can find it. Most of these A-- holes are snow shoers, and nordic skiers, And love to use the groomed trails just don't like the sleds on them.

Just my two penny's

 

[SnowXTC]

I am, for the most part, a law abiding citizen (ok, I speed in my car occasionally), but enough is enough. This is the US and I have rights. I have already lost a lot of the area that I used to sled and now with a March 15 closure, some areas will not even get ridden because the riding does not get good until then. I am really tired of kissing everyone's whims, what about me, what about my right to ride on PUBLIC lands? I am going to keep riding and the hell with all of it. Write me a ticket if you can catch me.

Ok, that is how I feel, probably not what I will do though. I will write these companies because I will not be doing business with them anymore and I will continue to fight for our right, but we are losing our rights everyday, not just to sled, but a lot of other rights too.

The fence is going up and the gate is closing, but we are so happy with what the government is feeding us, that we don't see it and don't care. Just wait till that gate closes. Will you be so complacant and accept it or will you fight? If you plan to fight, you better fight now, because it will be too late when the gate is closed.

 

[ullose272]

there live target practice

 

[PassRev]

Forest Service travel management plans?

Came across this article today:
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/mark-menlove/Content?oid=1283089

About this organization:
http://www.winterwildlands.org/index.php

Pay special attention to this:
Would you say the majority of the issues you deal with are snowmobile-skier related?

Yes. We're making headway. One of our biggest issues right now is the Forest Service travel management plans, which prescribe where motorized vehicle use is or is not appropriate. There was a new rule that came out in 2005 that sort of directs all of this, and it limits off-road vehicle use to designated routes and trails or areas. It's been great in controlling wheeled ORV use, ATVs and dirt bikes and whatnot, and eliminating cross-country travel, but the rule excludes snowmobiles, or their term is "over-snow vehicles." And so it allows each forest, if they choose to manage winter use and snowmobiles they can, but they don't have to, and so that's one of our biggest issues right now is trying to convince the Forest Service at the national level to do away with that loophole for snowmobiles. And also to work at the forest level to convince each forest to choose to manage winter use. The Clearwater National Forest right now is putting together their travel plan. They have chosen to manage winter use and their draft plan is a really good, well-balanced plan, leaving a lot of area open for snowmobiles, but also protecting other large areas for non-motorized use.

 

[RMKcowboy]

The Clearwater's Plan is... oh nevermind I don't want to get banned for posting what I'm thinking right now.
Over the snow travel is exempt from the travel management rule because the impact is almost NIL... enough said. Hopefully the fine folks in Region 4 down there don't cave to these fools and let them screw everything up for sledders.
That said, all these enviro groups are so in love with the new travel rule, and I agree it's a step in the right direction for the FS to some degree. BUT... it's essentially an un-funded mandate that every Forest must comply with, but there is no extra $ anywhere to step up enforcement or patrols to try and make sure people are staying where the map says they can stay. So WTF good is it all going to do? Not to mention, the maps (at least here on the Forest I work for) are rediculously hard to read and have silly little omissions like showing a road ending at a piece of private property, only to keep going on the other side of the private property. It was a well intended program, but I think in a few years' time or less it will tank because it wasn't well enough thought out.

 

[suitcase]

Ahhhh they seem nice, NOT!! It is never ending, thanks for the info.

They are sponsored by blackdimond (Avey gear) Which in the past have bought for them No more.

 

[firecatguy]

Ahhhh they seem nice, NOT!! It is never ending, thanks for the info.

They are sponsored by blackdimond (Avey gear) Which in the past have bought for them No more.

X2 on Black diamond

 

[Wade]

I've been tracking winterwildlands for years.

They got their start closing a little piece of land over in Stanely Idaho. Then they tried to close Pilot's peak. Last time I checked, they had 13 paid staff members, a college credit program for students to come work for them, they have filed and gotten several government grants to put in solar powered skate ski trails and teach children the evils of motorized recreation. They hold media manipulation classes around the country. They where also all over the Payette National Forest Travel Plan, trying to get stuff closed. I'm sure they were in the Clearwater, but Friends of the Clearwater, probably lead that assault.

The clearwater travel plan will end up closing ALL high altitude riding in that national forest, and about 40% of the snowmobile riding. They are closing all the RWAs, illegally in my opinion. Funny how the Forest Circus can ignore any rule it wants, and make up new rules as it goes.

They are affiliated with snowlands out of Reno NV. They cross share many board members with them and the Sierra Club. Yep, their everywhere, and well funded. They will come into a meeting and convince all the skiers, that they can close it all, if they just keep asking for things. Pretty heartless bastages.

The picture grabber, wasn't she the one that worked at a bicycle shop in Reno. Some thought she was a teacher.

 

[CatWoman]

Oh Wade......the good 'ol days of the NPCA 4M. Funny how that went by the wayside once there were some of *us* over there to argue with actual FACTS.

 

[Wade]

Yha, it was interesting. Killed a whole forum, we did.


Here's a pretty good list of companies that don't agree with us. You can read their bio's here.
http://www.algonquinoutfitters.com/cmty/e.html#21

You'll notice that Black Diamond and Atlas are two of the worst.

 

[plumnuts]

And then ask yourself this question, how many of us give money to the fight to keep our areas open? Two years age we made the decision and send a payment EVERY MONTH to the Blue Ribbon Coalition

 

[Wade]

And then ask yourself this question, how many of us give money to the fight to keep our areas open? Two years age we made the decision and send a payment EVERY MONTH to the Blue Ribbon Coalition

Heck, you should be sitting in a booth, at a snow show, just trying to get people to join SAWS for FREE. You'd think I was a leper.

Can't blame people, their all programmed to think the GOVERNMENT KNOWS BEST, no reason to question them.

 

[lucky13]

flood them with e mail also your local reps. we dont try to kick them out of anywhere, although i came real close to kicking ones *** he made the right choice and backed off. heres what i just sent these eco fools


are you real intelegent people aware that one 747 going from new york to la causes more polution and uses more fuel then 40 full size suvs do in one year? why dont you use the wilderness you fought so hard for? i have saved three of you now, taking you to safety on my snowmobile after you were lost or hurt or in one case a heart attack, which ever one of you folks reads this i hope you will reply, stop pushing your unproven fake science agenda, there will always be a few bad the percentage is minute and you know it as well as i. i doubt any of you have the courage to send a valid respone [kerry] a passonite snowmobiler and rational thinker

 

[RMKcowboy]

The clearwater travel plan will end up closing ALL high altitude riding in that national forest, and about 40% of the snowmobile riding. They are closing all the RWAs, illegally in my opinion. Funny how the Forest Circus can ignore any rule it wants, and make up new rules as it goes.

Just a friendly reminder... not all FS employees are azzhats, some of us actually try to talk sense in to the sheeple within the agency. This "yeah, close it, that will solve the problem" mentality WILL come back to bite them in the arse eventually.

 

[CBX]

Who are these people? Lawyers. And good ones at that.

Its a simple equation. Law degree + finding other lawyers who want $$$+ joining or starting some enviro alliance + show a picture of a polar bear + show a picture of a big redneck missing teeth on his smokey kawasaki 440 + save the world + donate to us and we'll make this all happen = land closure

The lawyers in charge are smart. potentially smarter than most of us here. As much as I hate to say it. Its a game of manipulation and imagery. And these groups do a phenominal job at it too.

I hate it as much as anyone. Even though their cause lacks anything other than taking money and villifying land users. There isnt any science to any of it. Its about convincing uninformed urbanites to contribute money.

They all share the same philosiphy. Give us money, and we'll make the bad man stop.

The internet is their trump card. If you ever get a chance to meet a gerneration Y contributor to any of these causes, take the time to talk to them. You'll get an education. I sure did. I'm one of the least sheltered people i know, and i was simply blown away with how Gen Y greenies view the world.

Their best weapon is the court system. They completely circumvent the legislative system. They sumbit suit. In the court of their choice, thus picking their judge.

Their belief is zero compromise. One ORV in the mountains is one too many.

You cant reason with them. You cant negotiate with them.

Some days I wished i was tactful and smart enough to be a good lawyer and fight these guys.

Reality is that as long as there are uniformed people out there, thre revenue stream will be there too.

It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, and everything to do with making money. And convincing people that Off road vehicles are evil is a good way of doing it.

The Blog-o machine and social networking sites like myspace, facebook and twitter is going to take these organizations into the next stratosphere within the next couple of years.

best way we can help is improve our image and support entities like the Blue Ribbon Coalitioin and Snowmobile Assoc.