Guys I need some Boondocker lessons,help

[arcticrat]

Turboed a 06 m7 with the new boondocker box. Tank and a half of gas burnt it down. Who, where can I get a boondocker lesson. Want to understand what all inputs are doing. any sugestions, thanks.
I have a union bay 900 kit should I install these jugs or stay stock?

 

[backcountryislife]

#1 remove BD box from injectors,
#2 remove ground
#3 pull bd box off of sled
#4 sell on SW
#5 pick any other box.
#6 install other box

or get GOOD numbers from someone who runs that kit at similar elevation.


Thu UB9 was never the biggest powerhouse, but it does relatively well & would be worth putting on. IF you burnt down with the stock setup though, you may want to think twice, it'll get a lot more expensive & cost you a bunch of time when you need to deal with getting aftermarket pistons.

If you go to www.boondocker.com I believe you can download the instructions for the box. I strongly believe it's inferior to most other boxes from a user's standpoint, but if you learn it... you can be slightly less annoyed with it & burn down a little less often!

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I have over 1500 miles on my BD box. It work just fine for me.

But....

If you don't have a set of EGT gages you are toying with disaster.

And that doesn't matter what kind of box you have.

Get the EGT's before you do anything.

Thunder

 

[Arctic Thunder]

I strongly believe it's inferior to most other boxes from a user's standpoint, but if you learn it... you can be slightly less annoyed with it & burn down a little less often!

So is it inferior because you don't need a laptop to tune/adjust it in the field or because it has to many adjustable option to understand?

I know you used to be a Boondocker fan, but have switched over.

Thats fine. I will agree 100% that some of the other boxes on the market are easier to operate, just because they don't have all the options or adjustability.

But if a person sits down with the box and the 9v power supply in the house and spends an hour with the manual you can run through the options and get a pretty good understanding of how it should work.





Thunder

 

[backcountryislife]

So is it inferior because you don't need a laptop to tune/adjust it in the field or because it has to many adjustable option to understand?

I know you used to be a Boondocker fan, but have switched over.

Thats fine. I will agree 100% that some of the other boxes on the market are easier to operate, just because they don't have all the options or adjustability.

But if a person sits down with the box and the 9v power supply in the house and spends an hour with the manual you can run through the options and get a pretty good understanding of how it should work.





Thunder

Fan would never have been the word, a student of making it work better... yes.

I can explain volumes about how it works & how to use the advanced modes, when you need to change transition points, how to use accel fuel... etc, BUT from my experience with a few of each box, I just feel the attitude WORKS much better. I have met a FEW people who have bd boxes & don't ever have to mess with them, but if you're honest, those people are few & far between compared to ones who don't. When set up by a very good tuner, the bd box is a great tool, but for the average guy I feel it's inferior & problematic.

As for the PCV, IF you have a good tuner setting it up, then you'll like it, similar to the bd box, but you're not trying to mess with it all the time.

I know lots of guys that understand the BD box VERY well... and still have to dick with them all the time. Me, I just ride now, it's a lot of fun.

 

[007]

I dont like my bd box very well, but it is about the only one I can use because I'm color blind.

I wish they would come out with something other than dam red-green-bla bla bla cause I cannot tell them apart all the time!

KJP

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Fan would never have been the word, a student of making it work better... yes.

I can explain volumes about how it works & how to use the advanced modes, when you need to change transition points, how to use accel fuel... etc, BUT from my experience with a few of each box, I just feel the attitude WORKS much better. I have met a FEW people who have bd boxes & don't ever have to mess with them, but if you're honest, those people are few & far between compared to ones who don't. When set up by a very good tuner, the bd box is a great tool, but for the average guy I feel it's inferior & problematic.

As for the PCV, IF you have a good tuner setting it up, then you'll like it, similar to the bd box, but you're not trying to mess with it all the time.

I know lots of guys that understand the BD box VERY well... and still have to dick with them all the time. Me, I just ride now, it's a lot of fun.

Right on and I will agree with that.

The more options you have the more you will mess with.

Honestly I am one of the lucky ones. I have touched my BD box once in two years. That was to adjust for a broken PV cable. But I never run on the edge I will live with a bit fat in this range and that range rather then mess with it all the time.

Thunder

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

1-don't listen to guys that don't run them
2- get ahold of code red on here (he even helped me and I am banned from talking)
3-keep asking someone will chime in that knows.
4-run good gas

 

[backcountryislife]

1-don't listen to guys that don't run them

Tell you what spanky, the comments you make just are too easy to beat down after the crap you came on here spewing. Have you run a push turbo? Didn't think so, yet you felt a need to bash them.

I've run a number of sleds with BD boxes, when I speak about them... it's not a GUESS & it's not hearsay. For YOU of all people to come on here & spew about people talking from experience... laughable.

oh yeah, I forgot...


BOOM!

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

good god Back Door take a break. My post was about as worthless as yours. A guy comes on here locking for advice and all you do is say what he bought is junk. I didn't say the push was junk, I am just glad I am not the test dumby for them. I could be in the same boat as this guy. NOW

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

Hope this helps as I have only run a turbo for three weeks and MAYBE others will chime in here and correct me if I am wrong.

First you say you broke both rings...thats sounds like detonation to me and could not have anything to do with your turbo set-up...My dealer said to run av gas (straight for the tuning procces)

Also what elevation are you at and what are you running for gauges???EGT or air fuel...I run egt's (but have heard a/f is better) and I keep my temps down below 1200 and mine is a m8 which has a deto sensor, which you don't have (great safety device).

As Far as the box mine has a 3000 l-m-h and 5000 l-m-h setting for non boost and then PSI for l-m-h. I have taken fuel away -6-6-5 in the 3000 range and -4-4-2 in the 5000 and will be taking fuel away in the psi-h to try to warm things up at wot.

Guys will chime in here but they need info--on burn down (what happened) and elevation and boost.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Unless its the newest latest version of the bd kit then IMO its not worth having and I would tear it off and throw it in the trash, then call twisted and make it run like it should with less problems.

But thats just me, if you are stuck with it then you need gauges, do you have any???? I would also sit down with a manual like arctic thunder said. The bd box takes time really get then its easy, but the bd kits I am not a fan of until this year.

I do like having the bd box on my piped m1000 because with the pcIII I can't adjust much so I use the bd box to make adjustments then change the pc map, the bd has also been great for getting a broke sled back(burn downs etc.. just poor the fuel in and go) out of the back country.

 

[arcticrat]

A couple more Questions

Thanks Tree Magnet for taking your time and advice. I'm tunning at 2200 feet . I'm Installing Egts, had A/f guage but its to slow for tunning.
One other question What are you guys oil to gas ratio, I'm @ 40:1 I think of running a bit more oil. Looking for a Stock 700 cylinder head, if anyone has one for sale

 

[arcticrat]

More info

Looks like a lean and or lots of detination, running @ 8#s boost .

 

[backcountryislife]

If you post some pics of the pistons you may get some more targeted feedback.


btw, the directions I mentioned are here:
http://www.boondockers.com/instructions/snow/arctic%20cat/control%20box/M7_M8%20AC%20Turbo%20_PG_%2012-01-09.pdf

Lots of good info on there about what the adjustments do, but obviously the how & how much is something that is always up for debate.

 

[TREE_MAGNET_777]

IMO lean would be melted pistons,broken rings would be detonation,but you could break rings from melted junk getting caught between piston and ports..8 lbs seems like alot at 2200 feet unless you are running race gas...I THINK...I am up to 8 at 5000' and thats at 50-50 av-91. Then you throw in up to 10% ethenal if you are running pump gas, and you get the BOOM...with anyones kit I might add. running a turbo without any gauges as you have found out---Is not good

 

[Arctic Thunder]

Question for you turbo experts or anyone for that matter.

Can't you have Detonation without heat, and without the A/f ratio being out of range?

I would think you could have detonation with lets say average 1150f temps and the AF ratio well within spec.

Is that a true assumption or not?

I can believe as the temps go up the chance for detonation is greater. But can it detonate and be fine on temps and A/F?

sorry guys

Thunder

 

[BigCat900]

To answer Arctic Thunders question ... yes you can have detonation occur without the heat and with EGTs and AF numbers being in range.. here is my long winded answer for those who may not know what detonation is:

Detonation can happen under a few conditions in any engine..boosted or not. and can be the result of a few problems.. easiest way i can explain it is... detonation occurs when the fuel in the combustion chamber ignites to soon... before the piston is up at the top of its stroke... causing very high pressures in the cylinder and that pressure has no where to go other then breaking the rings ,(weakest point).

Things that can cause detonation...
#1 ignition timing.. for obviouse reasons.. unlikely to be the problem in a 2 stroke because of how the ignition timing is, for the most part in a fixed setting..
#2 engine overheating or heat soaking ...if the engine is to hot the exsesive heat in the cylinders can cause the fuel to ignite to soon, like a diesel (this is also refered to as" dieseling".. whole other subject).. this condtion can happen in a 2 stroke but is also unlikely because the engine would likely run like crap before the cylinder temps got that high
#3 and most likely to be your problem... fuel octane.. this gets very hard to explain in detail because of how fuel octane actually works.. ill skip the technical part there cuz u can learn about the details of octane on the internet. But basicly the higher the octane, the SLOWER the fuel burns.. I know that sounds strange but its less likely to ignite before your pistion is approaching top dead center under high compression situations like in boosted engines..

With that said, in my oppinion if your running more then 6 or 7 lbs boost you should be mixing race gas with premium gas to bring the octane count up just to be safe...greatly reducing the chance of detonating ... detonation is VERY hard to hear in a 2 stroke because of all the noise they already make..
I have an 09 M8 with a boondocker race gas setup and i run around 10 lbs .. using a 50/50 mix of race gas and super (92) and haven't seen any detonation codes yet..

Also another side note... guages are a great tuning aid but are not 100% reliable... you should use them as a guide. but learning how to read a spark plug color and piston wash is the only for sure way to know if your lean or not

Articrat... i Hope this info can help.. I am not a boondocker control box expert by any means.. im still learning it too and I know it can be very frustrating learning what all these numbers mean and do but hang in there, you'll figure it out.. any questions feel free to PM me and I can give u my phone number if it may help.. good luck.. you'll love the boost after you get through the tuning stages

 

[BigCat900]

Arcticrat... I guess I should have asked you first but are you running any race gas or avgas??

 

[arcticrat]

Thanks guys

Hey Big Cat, thanks for the info, We were running A 50-50 c112 race gas and 91 premumm. I'll get some piston pics tonite and post them for you guys to look at.