Got an idea that would make our lives easier and safer!!!

[Duddin]

So while driving today I was thinking about a product that would be very beneficial to our obsession that we call snowmobiling.

We have our beacons, our SPOTs, our GPS units, our radios but why not make it one great package.

Think about it spot and beacons send out a signal telling people where you are, GPS recieves a signal telling you where you are. We have already started making this in the RHINO GPS and it can even tell you where your friends are if they so choose, but why not make it work like a beacon and a spot that always sends a signal then you flip a switch and it could tell you the GPS coordinates of your friends instead of just beeping and like the newer ones having an arrow.

It could even put in on a map and give you directions to get there making finding people in an avy way faster and making it easier to find your buddy that got stuck and fell behind. The radio part is mostly a convienence thing and can be used to say hey I need help flip your switch and come over here rather than trying to explain where you are.

I really think the technology is there and it wouldnt be too hard but I personally dont have the means/knowledge to do it if someone could it would be a great asset to our sport though and I dont even need recognition or money for the idea (wouldnt refuse any money either though)

What do ya'll think?

 

[m_beeson]

The GPS has to be able to send, and receive satalite signals, so for finding someone in an avy, It could take you to the last place that it received a signal, but I don't think that you could find someone burried using only gps.

You are right, there are some electronically intelligent people who, if tasked to do so, could create your product.

I like your thought process. You have posed some viable resolve to some real issues.

green for ya... (i've given out too much green, catch ya tomorrow)

 

[mtn_extreme]

Do you think this techno isn't already there? It is, just not available to the general public yet

 

[Duddin]

I seriously think we have the tech to make it work even when burried in the snow, we have been able to get live video from space for lots of years I think we could manage to get a signal through a little snow. I'm not some signal analyst or anything like that be really could it be that hard? and just incase the thing could still work like a traditional beacon and maybe have it cross reference a map with the beacon signal to help gauge distance and stuff a little easier.

Maybe I'm off my rocker or ignorant to what tech this would really require but I dont think it would be all that hard and bein built for the purpose of saving peoples lives I think this is an area that should be focused on a little harder by some companies, I'd lots rather be able to find my buddy thats sufficating than find the fastest route with the least traffic to the nearest IHOP.

 

[hardcore2]

Not sure that a GPS would work under the snow ???? Don't they need to SEE the satellites ???

 

[Duddin]

Not sure that a GPS would work under the snow ???? Don't they need to SEE the satellites ???

For the regular GPS that most people are accustom to yes they do generally but I have a had time believing that the tech isnt there to make it work. Of course its all about the money and there isnt a company willing to spend the cash on r&d to get it here or willing to take a little less profit on the product to keep the cost down.

 

[Ollie]

Actually I don't think it is difficult.
The problem would be cost.
Think about it.
A good GPS costs 350 - 500 dollars.
Spot runs 300 (I think)
A beacon runs 250.
radio, cheap. say 100 dollars for a GOOD one.

Now when you try to put all those in one unit and make it small enough to be handy, portable and light enough to carry with ease. It would cost around 3 - 4 grand.

I do think it would be a great product, just don't know how you would go about producing it and making it cheap enough to mass market.

 

[Yamadoo04]

The problem I see with gps satellite is that (at least with the spot tracker) it is not always exactly where you are. When I have looked it it when I get home it puts a point very close to where I am but it is not exactly where I am. It can easily be 50 to 100 feet off of my exact location. That would not be good in an avy. Therefore I think it could lead you in the wrong direction for a burial. Avy beacon is still the best thing for a quick recovery.

 

[adrenaline junkey]

Great idea but All current avalanche beacons suffer from interference from portable radios. so it would be difficult to mix the two together unless the radio was always off until use. I had a buddy who used a GPS in a watertight enclosure for shallow water diving. I'm sure they could be used under several feet of snow.

 

[mtn_extreme]

" I had a buddy who used a GPS in a watertight enclosure for shallow water diving. I'm sure they could be used under several feet of snow. "


My bro is a retired officer of the navy where he was head of nuclear communications on a sub. Again, tech is there just not to the general public........and as stated, cost prohibative.

 

[Mjunkie]

I've thought the exact same thing. With technology where it is today, I can't imagine that the best thing out there right now is a blinking light and a beep that continues to go faster the closer you get to your burried friend in an avy.

 

[Duddin]

Great idea but All current avalanche beacons suffer from interference from portable radios. so it would be difficult to mix the two together unless the radio was always off until use. I had a buddy who used a GPS in a watertight enclosure for shallow water diving. I'm sure they could be used under several feet of snow.

I was unaware of the interference thing so that poses a problem but I'm sure we could figure it out.

I'm not saying that there isnt some r&d to be done to make it work and make it a decent price. Just seems to me that there should be more research into life saving products like this, I bet if we tried to market it to skiers they would have one of their big companies and rich greenie friends hammer this out in no time.

 

[Rob1334]

Thought about this whole thing about last summer, even talked to Mule briefly about it, don't know if he still remembers...

I work in GIS using GPS receivers all day, the signals they send, etc. Consumer GPS units have the technology there to be used with other technology of this sort, look at the rhino. Spot acts about the same as a consumer GPS unit from what I hear, only sends these points to a seperate replicator to a server that can be pulled from the internet and such. Really the only difficult part would be to add the beacon to it. Although the accuracy of a consumer GPS for the cost we are willing to spend you will only get so much accuracy from the unit. Say someone gets buried in an avy and you could get the unit to respond with a signal for others to see that, use the gps to get close to the area they are (if say you are from another group) and then the unit sends the signal from the beacon electronics to pinpoint, just an example... some flaws to it I know but would be cool to get to that point.



Biggest problem with this will be cost. Those who can "barely afford" a beacon or don't own one still prob. wouldn't buy this product.

 

[Duddin]

Thought about this whole thing about last summer, even talked to Mule briefly about it, don't know if he still remembers...

I work in GIS using GPS receivers all day, the signals they send, etc. Consumer GPS units have the technology there to be used with other technology of this sort, look at the rhino. Spot acts about the same as a consumer GPS unit from what I hear, only sends these points to a seperate replicator to a server that can be pulled from the internet and such. Really the only difficult part would be to add the beacon to it. Although the accuracy of a consumer GPS for the cost we are willing to spend you will only get so much accuracy from the unit. Say someone gets buried in an avy and you could get the unit to respond with a signal for others to see that, use the gps to get close to the area they are (if say you are from another group) and then the unit sends the signal from the beacon electronics to pinpoint, just an example... some flaws to it I know but would be cool to get to that point.



Biggest problem with this will be cost. Those who can "barely afford" a beacon or don't own one still prob. wouldn't buy this product.

Yes something like that would be a great start. Your right not everyone would buy it but the crowd that has to have all of the above equipment would love to have it all in one. Its kind of like the avy bags not everyone can justify spending 1k+ on a backpack but its of great benefit to those that have them and as time goes on and there is some competition they will get cheaper.

 

[tudizzle]

I got all excited then I realized you had not dreamed up the spill proof bong

 

[m_beeson]

Actually I don't think it is difficult.
The problem would be cost.
Think about it.
A good GPS costs 350 - 500 dollars.
Spot runs 300 (I think)
A beacon runs 250.
radio, cheap. say 100 dollars for a GOOD one.

Now when you try to put all those in one unit and make it small enough to be handy, portable and light enough to carry with ease. It would cost around 3 - 4 grand.

I do think it would be a great product, just don't know how you would go about producing it and making it cheap enough to mass market.

Yep

 

[FastM8]

It sound like a great idea, but sorry to say. A GPS system will not help you find anyone buried under the snow. They need a clear line of sight to the satellite. Same as your XM or Sirus radio. Now making a system that uses the GPS, Radio, and SPOT...I'm sure it will be along soon enough. As for avalanche tranceivers....something that can get you within a couple of feet of the victim fairly fast...seems pretty damn good to me.

 

[Duddin]

In doing about 5 min of research I have found that there is a lot of development and research going on to make a GPS work better indoors and with other interferences, currently there are companies working on units for emergency personnel that work indoors, in tunnels and underground. There is also industrial products that are easily accurate up to centimeters. What we use for sledding in only accurate within a few feet. The tech IS there and is being developed for consumer use. If I have the means to make this happen I can assure any naysayers that it would be available within 5 years.

The main reason that our current products are so limited is because of the push to get them under $100 by using quartz crystal oscillators to receive the satellite frequencies, which is a very old and simple technology. I built a radio using quartz crystals when I was 10. There are better and much more sensitive/accurate receiving technologies out there and they are being implemented into the GPS world so I guess I'll just have to sit back and wait.

 

[Duddin]

After the previous post I did a little more research and found a unit thats accurate within DECIMETERS. Thats pretty dang good if you ask me. Its really not as unattainable as some seem to think.

 

[DaveB]

Yer definately on to something. My Sirius works on the bottom floor of the concrete parkade in Calgary.....my 150 dollar Rino120 works in the cab of my truck and in my motorhome....if buddy can use his GPS underwater, it'll work under some snow. The technology is there....someone just needs to put it together. I'll bet it could be marketed and profitable for less than 750 bucks.....