Just wondering what your thoughts are with the future. I see it this way: we had 200+ manufacturers in the 70's, now we have 4, 2 have merged and technically we have 3 now. The cost of a new sled is now approaching $18,000 CDN(some models). What comes out the tail pipe now dictates what a company can make. The emission thing to me came from the whole deal with Yellowstone. I don't care if you can sled there or not, there are many other places in North America you can ride. The entry level market is pretty much non existent. Polaris really makes the only sleds in this category(i.e. more then one model). In todays economic world, how the heck dose a family of 4 get into snowmobiling? 4 average sleds will cost in the range of $32,000(8G's a sled). Then there is the truck, trailer, gear and travel costs. Sleds are incorporating more tech, making them more complex and harder for DIY to repair. I love sledding, but I don't see a bright future, this is turning into more of a rich niche. I bought new in 2001(got for $6999+tax+PDI), still have the sled(wife's now), and my latest is a 06 600 HO RMK bought used last year. New and it is already 7 years old. I just can't justify the cost of 3-4 months of use for new. Can the industry survive? Thoughts?
Future of snowmobiling
- Thread starter palmer600
- Start date
doo has brought down the price somewhat with the summit sport. google sea doo spark, if they could do something similar for sleds it would be a huge boost for the sport. but if someone doesn't do something soon the sport is sure to keep shrinking as it has for years now. it has never been a very family friendly sport cost wise but the last few years prices have been getting totally ridiculous.
I agree with 89sandman, Ski Doo, is probably doing the best job of having cheaper models with their Summit Sport model that retails for 8 grand!
Ya I totally agree with you man, this sport is getting insanely expensive! There is no way that a middle class family of four can get in to this sport with out a big loan! But we don't really do this sport because its cheap, we do it because we love riding!
The future of our sport is probably more in the hands in the forest service it seems like! In the Snowies they just made regulations that you can only ride from November 30 to May 30 and it seems like every day more and more Tree hugging Organizations are trying to make more and more of the forest Wilderness Area!!
Hopefully something gets figured out soon!!
Ryan
Ya I totally agree with you man, this sport is getting insanely expensive! There is no way that a middle class family of four can get in to this sport with out a big loan! But we don't really do this sport because its cheap, we do it because we love riding!
The future of our sport is probably more in the hands in the forest service it seems like! In the Snowies they just made regulations that you can only ride from November 30 to May 30 and it seems like every day more and more Tree hugging Organizations are trying to make more and more of the forest Wilderness Area!!
Hopefully something gets figured out soon!!
Ryan
As long as there is snow, there will always be places to ride. I ride more at a friends farm then anywhere else now. I stay at my parents home in Drumheller,, drive 10 min. to the farm, pull the sleds out of the garage, ride in almost endless miles of open fields and gentle hills and sometimes bring the sleds to my parents and ride from their home. In Drum, we have found an area that we dub "mini Revelstoke", when there is snow, there are some good short hill climbs. No trail fees, no trailering(unless into town), no hotels costs. Just fuel for the day or two. Not everyone can do this, I guess I'm lucky. I guess you guys in the States are getting hammered harder then in Canada for area closures.
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suitcase
Well-known member
The future?
Yes there will always be snowmobiles, with places to ride. But These places you will be able to ride will be places like Burandts Back county, and other privitely owned mountain ranches. For no more than the simple fact that the left wing bunny humpers, will lock us out of our own public land. So yes the statement that this sport will be for the rich, that will become very true. It will be one of those things that you will do on a limited basis. Just like your trips to hawaii.
Yes there will always be snowmobiles, with places to ride. But These places you will be able to ride will be places like Burandts Back county, and other privitely owned mountain ranches. For no more than the simple fact that the left wing bunny humpers, will lock us out of our own public land. So yes the statement that this sport will be for the rich, that will become very true. It will be one of those things that you will do on a limited basis. Just like your trips to hawaii.
Russian snowmobile adventures get ready , here comes North America....hahaha..
These are the areas that I play in now. As far as emissions go, there are way more weed whips and lawnmowers killing the planet then there are sleds.
I agree that the sport is spendy but anything, motorized, you do with a family of 4 is going to be expensive. Go check out the price of a new razor-4 1000xp. They are about $22000 down here. Heck, going anywhere is expensive. I do know for a fact that all the families, I've seen, that have done stuff like this through their school years have drug free kids that turned out really well. You have to decide your priorities and, maybe limit what you do. Possibly even saving through the summer to get through winter. In our family snowmobiling is a priority. We ride snowmobiles in the winter and standup jet skis in the summer.I've had to tone down mod parts a touch but I refuse to give either up. You can't do everything. You are either short on time or money and it is usually both. Pick something your family loves and have fun.
As far as downfalls to snowmobiling, even though they are expensive and the obvious forest circus filled with liberals, I think the factories don't do enough to get younger people involved. Compare dirt bikes to sleds. They have 50 cc, 65, 80 on up. Sleds go from a 120 to a full sized sled. Way better odds of still doing it if you did it when you were a kid. Granted it is limited use but I like it that way. It is fun to do something else and you really look forward to it the next year.
Is it worth the bath you take to go? I think so.
Are the sleds too expensive? Everything seems expensive anymore.
Will the price be the detriment to snowmobile? I believe the liberals will. It won't be the price of sleds it will be because the government is taking all our money to give all these handouts to people, like free healthcare, that won't do anything on their own. Essentially promoting mediocracy.
Is snowmobiling hard on your retirement? What retirement. The way everything is going down here, nobody is going to retire.
Good luck and hope you keep it going.
As far as downfalls to snowmobiling, even though they are expensive and the obvious forest circus filled with liberals, I think the factories don't do enough to get younger people involved. Compare dirt bikes to sleds. They have 50 cc, 65, 80 on up. Sleds go from a 120 to a full sized sled. Way better odds of still doing it if you did it when you were a kid. Granted it is limited use but I like it that way. It is fun to do something else and you really look forward to it the next year.
Is it worth the bath you take to go? I think so.
Are the sleds too expensive? Everything seems expensive anymore.
Will the price be the detriment to snowmobile? I believe the liberals will. It won't be the price of sleds it will be because the government is taking all our money to give all these handouts to people, like free healthcare, that won't do anything on their own. Essentially promoting mediocracy.
Is snowmobiling hard on your retirement? What retirement. The way everything is going down here, nobody is going to retire.
Good luck and hope you keep it going.
Quads have two advantages over sleds, you can use them year round and they are cheaper. I can get two 400 HO Polaris quads for the cost of one RMK. Quads don't seem to have the emission regulations that sleds have either.
forget the price of sleds and quads and toys...
how the heck does anyone afford 4 kids period???
What you will see is a society that stops having kids and stops getting married. Mostly because kids are too expensive and its too hard to maintain relationships with all the available distractions in today's world. Sledding should be the least of our concerns.
how the heck does anyone afford 4 kids period???
What you will see is a society that stops having kids and stops getting married. Mostly because kids are too expensive and its too hard to maintain relationships with all the available distractions in today's world. Sledding should be the least of our concerns.
Here is a quick snapshot of our Sport based on SLEDS SOLD in the USA each year.
2000 136,601 -7.6%
2001 140,629 +2.9%
2002 134,082 -4.6%
2003 114,927 -14.2%
2004 109,750 -4.2%
2005 100,899 -8%
2006 91,670 -9.1%
2007 79,815 -12.9%
2008 79,552 -.3%
2009 61,593 -22.57%
2010 48,599 -21%
2011 51,796 +6.5%
2012 48,689 -6%
2013 48,536 -.3%
Point of comparison.
1971, 495,000 snowmobiles sold.
Wife and I have been married almost 25 years now.
Have 4 kids.
There have been some real challenges along the way, no doubt about it!
But I wouldn't trade a one of them for any of the toys we now have.
We just had to learn to be patient and WAIT till we could afford the expensive toys.
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snengineer
Well-known member
It seems to me that most all the years with the biggest change in sales from one to the other are years that manufacturers came out with new chassis or years that they just changed colors. The biggest jump was the release of the Pro in 11, 27.5% change is a big jump. As for me I will keep doing it until my family says enough or it stops snowing.
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waxer
Well-known member
Lots of good comments about the high cost of motorized sports. One good thing today for a younger family or for anyone really is there are a lot of good used machines to buy just need to look around and do some homework. For example my kids wanted to get back in the sport last year since my grandkids are now old enough to want to ride so they bought 3 used low mileage well kept machines for about $7500. Not to be sneezed at but compared to new that was really a good deal. They are performed flawlessly, yeh not the latest and lightest but great machines and we had a great time as a family.
This year I ordered a new 800 RMK even though my 600 is really all I need but one of the reasons is my youngest grandson has his eye on it even though he will have to work part of it off. Also this sled will last me the rest of my riding days partly because after buying this dang thing I can't afford a GIRDLE FOR A HUMMINGBIRD, LOL!
One other thing about todays cost of riding, gas is high no doubt but we seem to use a lot less gas in a day riding powder & trees then we used to riding hell bent for election on the trails.
This year I ordered a new 800 RMK even though my 600 is really all I need but one of the reasons is my youngest grandson has his eye on it even though he will have to work part of it off. Also this sled will last me the rest of my riding days partly because after buying this dang thing I can't afford a GIRDLE FOR A HUMMINGBIRD, LOL!
One other thing about todays cost of riding, gas is high no doubt but we seem to use a lot less gas in a day riding powder & trees then we used to riding hell bent for election on the trails.
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Suprx125
Member
Very good points in here. New sleds ARE getting very expensive. Every time I see the prices on new ones, I seem to like my 04' Viper more & more. I wouldn't mind getting a new one, but I'm not about to spend $10-12k on a sled!! Trail permit prices are increasing as well. 4 yrs ago they were $20 in MI, now they are $45.
Dirt bike prices are getting out of hand too.
I bought my '08 KTM 250XC for $6k brand new out the door .. like a year or two later they are like 9k or something stupid. I think the 4 strokes are over 10k now. I think I saw 11,000 for a KTM 450 at one point.
Oh well what can you do...but save and figure out how to make it work.
I bought my '08 KTM 250XC for $6k brand new out the door .. like a year or two later they are like 9k or something stupid. I think the 4 strokes are over 10k now. I think I saw 11,000 for a KTM 450 at one point.
Oh well what can you do...but save and figure out how to make it work.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
^ Agreed, think about that....$11K for a dirtbike...nuts. Same as you....bought a brand new 450 in 2007 for $6K all in, now $10K 65% increase in 6 years....ouch
Sledding....well, I'm not sure the way sledding is depicted on SW is/ever was in anyway affordable, particularly not on a family scale. Think if you just came on here to make a list of things you "need" to go sledding (according to some people). For many people it would be:
- Trips of 1,000+miles to get to more desirable terrain
- Loaded, modded, lifted 1-ton diesel to get there
- 20'+ enclosed trailer with heat, stereo, lights, hot tub, etc
- New sled + mods + wrap + turbo
- $3K worth of jacket, pants, boots, ABS pack, beacon, base layers, etc
If "family sledding" means you have a couple 2-ups to cruise around the family acreage towing the kiddies on sleds, in snow gear everyone had anyways...big difference.
"New-age" mountain sledding is not affordable without either a better than average income, or commitment of a large percentage of your income to sledding. Or a large tolerance for debt. Or all of the above. If you are trying to set up the family, even modestly, you will need lots of cash. And no, I don't think it's sustainable in the long run once the loans catch up.
Sledding....well, I'm not sure the way sledding is depicted on SW is/ever was in anyway affordable, particularly not on a family scale. Think if you just came on here to make a list of things you "need" to go sledding (according to some people). For many people it would be:
- Trips of 1,000+miles to get to more desirable terrain
- Loaded, modded, lifted 1-ton diesel to get there
- 20'+ enclosed trailer with heat, stereo, lights, hot tub, etc
- New sled + mods + wrap + turbo
- $3K worth of jacket, pants, boots, ABS pack, beacon, base layers, etc
If "family sledding" means you have a couple 2-ups to cruise around the family acreage towing the kiddies on sleds, in snow gear everyone had anyways...big difference.
"New-age" mountain sledding is not affordable without either a better than average income, or commitment of a large percentage of your income to sledding. Or a large tolerance for debt. Or all of the above. If you are trying to set up the family, even modestly, you will need lots of cash. And no, I don't think it's sustainable in the long run once the loans catch up.
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It's true that snowmobiling is incredibly exspensive. But anything you do is exspensive. Go fishing, hunting, have a kid in hockey! When you do things as a family its just multiplied. I've snowmobiled for over 25 years and now I have 3 teenagers that snowmobile with me. I have usually had a 1-2 year old late model sled for last 15 years. I had one used 120 that all 3 kids went through (paid $800 for it 5 years later sold for $1200
best snowmobile investment ever!) Then upgraded to buying used blown up 440 7-10 year old race sled for between $400-$1200. Fix them up with parts off ebay-craigs list etc. Had as many as 7 of them at one time (neighbor kids need somthing to ride!) As kids grew sold them off for between $1200-$2500 and upgraded them into 3-4 year old fuel injected longer tracked sleds for $3000-$4500. Go to haydays to buy quality clothing and safety equipment for 1/2 price or less. My point is while exspensive, spread out over the last ten years of having my children enjoy one of my passions with me it really hasn't been as exspensive as one might think from the outside looking in. A little wheeling/dealing and a lot of work yes. Worth it? You bet! DEEP day in Taylor's Fork area last Christmas with all three kids... PRICELESS!
best snowmobile investment ever!) Then upgraded to buying used blown up 440 7-10 year old race sled for between $400-$1200. Fix them up with parts off ebay-craigs list etc. Had as many as 7 of them at one time (neighbor kids need somthing to ride!) As kids grew sold them off for between $1200-$2500 and upgraded them into 3-4 year old fuel injected longer tracked sleds for $3000-$4500. Go to haydays to buy quality clothing and safety equipment for 1/2 price or less. My point is while exspensive, spread out over the last ten years of having my children enjoy one of my passions with me it really hasn't been as exspensive as one might think from the outside looking in. A little wheeling/dealing and a lot of work yes. Worth it? You bet! DEEP day in Taylor's Fork area last Christmas with all three kids... PRICELESS!Part of the big price increases is what "we" demand of the mfrs.
We want 400ish lb, 150+hp, hot rod suspension machines and we got them.
Take a new $7-8k 800cc anything from 10-12 years ago and add up what it took in aftermarket parts to get it close to a new ProClimb, XM or Pro. That sled cost as much as a new stocker in 2013 after all the add-ons...........not accounting for the last 10 years of inflation.
I recall the same conversations then as now by the way.
Difference is, my 2012 Pro, bone stock handles better, better suspensoin, lighter and just as fast as my 2001 RMK 800 with a bunch of mods.
Apples to apples, bought them both 1 year old low miles and they cost about the same.
The cool part is there are alot of used sleds with good technology in the sub $5k price range that are not all clapped out.
I do agree that it is almost unachievable to outfit a family of 4 with new machines, gear, trailer, etc unless you make a shat laod of money. But just like me, most people don't just go plop $50k+ to go snowmobile. You do it a little at a time. My gear lasts me years. I get a new coat, pants or helmet when the prev one wears out. I don't bust out the card and walk out of the store like the Klim posterboy. Kids have gotten their good gear over the years and the little one gets the older one's hand me downs. Between the zip off leg extensions on the pants and jacket cuffs that pull out, I'm getting an average of 5 years life out of a good kid's jacket and bibs. Not bad when you break it down like that.
Sleds and trailer, a little each year. Wife got a "new" M7, used, about 6 years ago and upgraded to an enclosed trailer then. That was the biggest spending year to date at $9500. Still have them both and still have many years service left out of them.
The economy for the mfrs still has to rely on new sled sales or the whole food chain of used stuff will dry up, but if 20% of sledders bought a new sled every 5 years, the sales would be 10x what they are now.
As said in a previous post, the best way for the mfrs to grow interest in the sport and secure their future is to offer some reasonable price 3/4 size machines to get more younger people into snowmobiling and more entry level sleds for those new to the sport. Yes I wont ride anything less than a 800+cc sled, but my kids are happy if theirs makes braap noises and gets them down the trail. My wife has no need for a 700cc sled now (she did when we pulled the snowcoach for years with it). She'd be happy with a 500cc max sled as long as it was comfortable. Point is, in my immediate world (family), 3/4 of the riders would be happy with a low cost low powered machine and have a ball riding it!
We want 400ish lb, 150+hp, hot rod suspension machines and we got them.
Take a new $7-8k 800cc anything from 10-12 years ago and add up what it took in aftermarket parts to get it close to a new ProClimb, XM or Pro. That sled cost as much as a new stocker in 2013 after all the add-ons...........not accounting for the last 10 years of inflation.
I recall the same conversations then as now by the way.
Difference is, my 2012 Pro, bone stock handles better, better suspensoin, lighter and just as fast as my 2001 RMK 800 with a bunch of mods.
Apples to apples, bought them both 1 year old low miles and they cost about the same.
The cool part is there are alot of used sleds with good technology in the sub $5k price range that are not all clapped out.
I do agree that it is almost unachievable to outfit a family of 4 with new machines, gear, trailer, etc unless you make a shat laod of money. But just like me, most people don't just go plop $50k+ to go snowmobile. You do it a little at a time. My gear lasts me years. I get a new coat, pants or helmet when the prev one wears out. I don't bust out the card and walk out of the store like the Klim posterboy. Kids have gotten their good gear over the years and the little one gets the older one's hand me downs. Between the zip off leg extensions on the pants and jacket cuffs that pull out, I'm getting an average of 5 years life out of a good kid's jacket and bibs. Not bad when you break it down like that.
Sleds and trailer, a little each year. Wife got a "new" M7, used, about 6 years ago and upgraded to an enclosed trailer then. That was the biggest spending year to date at $9500. Still have them both and still have many years service left out of them.
The economy for the mfrs still has to rely on new sled sales or the whole food chain of used stuff will dry up, but if 20% of sledders bought a new sled every 5 years, the sales would be 10x what they are now.
As said in a previous post, the best way for the mfrs to grow interest in the sport and secure their future is to offer some reasonable price 3/4 size machines to get more younger people into snowmobiling and more entry level sleds for those new to the sport. Yes I wont ride anything less than a 800+cc sled, but my kids are happy if theirs makes braap noises and gets them down the trail. My wife has no need for a 700cc sled now (she did when we pulled the snowcoach for years with it). She'd be happy with a 500cc max sled as long as it was comfortable. Point is, in my immediate world (family), 3/4 of the riders would be happy with a low cost low powered machine and have a ball riding it!
This is the key. I'm the same way and some wheeling and dealing and effort (repairs, rebuilding) can net you pretty good stuff for not as much $ as you'd think.
Just longtracked a 380 Skidoo for the younger boy. Will be his first year solo riding. I've been offered double my $ for the sled already. Was patient, bought it in July. Searched until I found the right track and skis to upgrade it with. Just sold the OE track and skis to a guy who thought he got a real good deal (he did, I sold the track and skis for less than the cost of the studs in the track) especially when I threw in some extra parts I had laying around that they needed.
Did it take a couple hrs out of my life to advertise it, meet w/ someone, sell the parts? Yes, but meant that in the end I got free parts to upgrade the sled for what I wanted to do with it.
By saving $ where I can, I can afford to spend $ sometimes where I want (like a new sled for me last year!).
