Future of Snowbikes

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

Each year every snowbiker wishes for a factory production snowbike that checks the following boxes:

Sub-300lbs
80+ hp (turbo)?
CVT
2-stroke
Affordable

Who is going to make it happen? I try my best each year to get people into the sport and stay with it, but the challenges of recruiting and retaining snowbikers has proven challenging. Some people take to it right away and love it. Others try it for a season and get out because “they don’t have anyone to ride with”, or maintenance on the bikes was too much, or “all my friends ride sleds”. Getting people into the sport is also challenging when the cost of a bike can be $12000, cost of kit $8800-$10000, and accessories $1000-$4000 which puts these bikes into the $21000 to $26000+ range which is hard to convince a new rider that a bike build is worth it compared to a new turbo sled you don’t have to spend hours building, has 4 years of warranty and dealer support.

All I am getting at is, I sure hope this sport stays alive and well but it will have to advance quickly in order to keep peoples attention and make it somewhat competitive to sleds. I just want a snowbike that has the INTENSITY of a mtn sled. How do you get there? 2-stroke, cvt, lightweight. What’s your thoughts? I think as soon as someone produces this snowbike the sport will really begin to grow.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Blast 400 AC engine with a big bore cylinder and supporting mods seems like the best candidate for a power plant available today. (80-95 hp)

Then add time and materials for a custom build.

And sort out the gyro effect of the spinning clutches. (Get it low and centered)

I gotta admit I’m one of the tried a lot of things category and am on a boost for the intensity factor……..

Full build skidoo 800 snowbike.
300 2t Timbersled
450 TS
450 Aro
R6 TS
Ninja 636 Tedesled
EXOsled kit on axys 800.

Nothing handled well AND had power / intensity…….

I’m a little black pilled on building another. (Blew a lot of money and not anxious to repeat it)

Ha I just realized it’s you Jarred.

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

Blast 400 AC engine with a big bore cylinder and supporting mods seems like the best candidate for a power plant available today. (80-95 hp)

Then add time and materials for a custom build.

And sort out the gyro effect of the spinning clutches. (Get it low and centered)

I gotta admit I’m one of the tried a lot of things category and am on a boost for the intensity factor……..

Full build skidoo 800 snowbike.
300 2t Timbersled
450 TS
450 Aro
R6 TS
Ninja 636 Tedesled
EXOsled kit on axys 800.

Nothing handled well AND had power / intensity…….

I’m a little black pilled on building another. (Blew a lot of money and not anxious to repeat it)

Ha I just realized it’s you Jarred.

Hey Larry! Agree 100%. It’s been fun watching your builds in the past and I get it, the cost of those endevours is high. I think manufacturers just making small revisions to the kits isn’t enough to propel this sport into where it should be until someone produces a bike that matches modern mtn sled intensity. For those of us that live in high alpine areas I want the same point and shoot power as sleds but keep the lightweight flickability of a snowbike. I think to do that, the power to weight ratio on todays snowbike needs to double (80-100hp) and the bike weights need to drop 20-30lbs. Just my dream at the moment but whoever does it first will get a wad of cash in their hand

 

[PGTDragon]

I am mostly happy with my KTM 500 and TS 129 with the exception it needs more power. I have had a considerable amount of work done to the 500 and it’s close to maxed out on the power vs.reliability side.
I continue to hope that someone puts together a reliable turbo or supercharger kit. I have ridden a turbo 450 and it had the necessary power, but the reliability was marginal at best.
I would really like to see a major manufacturer put together an appropriately powered snowbike that is designed as a snowbike not an add on kit. I still believe it needs to be a big bore single, probably a 2T with a turbo, aluminum frame and swing arm/rail engineered as a system. The things that make a snowbike great are the lighter weight, narrow width and flickability. I am not certain a twin doesn’t alter that ratio too much and we start leaning toward a snow hawk or I buy a 1200 GS and stick a kit on it, gain a ton of power but a ton of weight. Just a few random thoughts but I hope the sport continues to grow and evolve the same way sleds do.

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

I am mostly happy with my KTM 500 and TS 129 with the exception it needs more power. I have had a considerable amount of work done to the 500 and it’s close to maxed out on the power vs.reliability side.
I continue to hope that someone puts together a reliable turbo or supercharger kit. I have ridden a turbo 450 and it had the necessary power, but the reliability was marginal at best.
I would really like to see a major manufacturer put together an appropriately powered snowbike that is designed as a snowbike not an add on kit. I still believe it needs to be a big bore single, probably a 2T with a turbo, aluminum frame and swing arm/rail engineered as a system. The things that make a snowbike great are the lighter weight, narrow width and flickability. I am not certain a twin doesn’t alter that ratio too much and we start leaning toward a snow hawk or I buy a 1200 GS and stick a kit on it, gain a ton of power but a ton of weight. Just a few random thoughts but I hope the sport continues to grow and evolve the same way sleds do.

Hey PGTDragon, yeah over the last 7-8 years I have done the following bike builds:

2015 KTM 500/137 LT
2017 RMK Pro Exosled
2020 KTM 500/Aro 3
2021 KTM 450/Aro 3
BRC 500 (carb)/Aro 137 and 120ST
2023 KTM 300SX/Riot 3 Gen 1/ Gen 2
2023 KTM 450SXF/Aro 3 Gen 2
2024 KTM 450SXF/Riot 3 Gen 2

They have all be fun, each has their own positives and shortcomings. I tried the Exosled for a few rides and it was more of a pain than fun and sold it to Sheetmetalfab hoping a shorter track would make it better. It did not. The 500 four strokes were awesome, but very expensive to build. The BRC was fun when it was tuned properly but you needed 6-8gals fuel for a good day out. I question the Panthera 600cc build for many reasons. It’s unfortunate that these companies expect the consumer to be the Guinea pig and do the product development and research for them and cannot support that kind of business model. Lately the 450 and 300 TBI have been my favorites but as soon as someone introduces a factory snowbike with the above mentioned specs I will want one. Someday we will look back at where snowbikes started and what they have become and laugh to ourselves. The kits have been great and really opened up new ways to explore and attack terrain in a different way which I sure love however I still consider snowbikes at their infancy compared to where mtn sleds are at presently in terms of technology, quality, price, and support.

 

[suva]

I think handling, particularly in poor snow conditions and trail is the #1 thing I would like to see improved on snow bikes. Less/lower slung weight would be on my list as well as being ready to ride without having to screw around with keeping motors warm. I don't ride open enough terrain for more power to be a priority, but of course it would be welcomed. I don't want a CVT, at least in any form I'm aware of.

Since snow bikes have already allowed relatively unskilled out of shape riders to traverse almost any terrain snow can stick to for 10+ years I don't forsee advancement like happened with sleds.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Any truth to the rumors from Ruffian on a 500 cc 2 stroke single with efi, cvt in a full build snowbike?

Supposedly an italian paramotor engine.

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

Any truth to the rumors from Ruffian on a 500 cc 2 stroke single with efi, cvt in a full build snowbike?

Supposedly an italian paramotor engine.

Check out Ruffians Instagram! They have been teasing a production snowbike and released a video of the bike ripping around their shop. They are worth keeping tabs on. Definitely in pursuit of something interesting.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Check out Ruffians Instagram! They have been teasing a production snowbike and released a video of the bike ripping around their shop. They are worth keeping tabs on. Definitely in pursuit of something interesting.

Yeah i saw / heard.

Ruffian has failed before though.

 

[Mafesto]

Having never ridden one this will probably be an ignorant question ...Why didn't the SnowHawks succeed?

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

Having never ridden one this will probably be an ignorant question ...Why didn't the SnowHawks succeed?

Too heavy, too wide, poor track options. There was a snowbike race up here last season and the race organizers allowed a guy on a snowhawk to compete in the snowbike class. Snowbikes dominated being lighter, more nimble, and less fatiguing to ride at full speed.

 

[Mafesto]

Too heavy, too wide, poor track options. There was a snowbike race up here last season and the race organizers allowed a guy on a snowhawk to compete in the snowbike class. Snowbikes dominated being lighter, more nimble, and less fatiguing to ride at full speed.

That response takes me back to racing quads.... the 500 Zukes & Banshees simply couldn't run with the 250R's!

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

That response takes me back to racing quads.... the 500 Zukes & Banshees simply couldn't run with the 250R's!

I couldn’t remember the weight on the snow hawks so had to look that up. They ranged in weight between 430 and 470 depending on what engine it had. For reference a good lightweight Austrian bike build can be in the 300lb zone. That 130 to 170 lb weight advantage is massive.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I couldn’t remember the weight on the snow hawks so had to look that up. They ranged in weight between 430 and 470 depending on what engine it had. For reference a good lightweight Austrian bike build can be in the 300lb zone. That 130 to 170 lb weight advantage is massive.

And a Yeti 120 SS with a 250SX can get to 250#

 

[powerpole]

I ran a YZ450FX with a Mototrax 120, it was really responsive but not enough track, I run a 2018 YZ450FX with a 2016 yeti with fox floats, narrow rails and 2022 2.6” track, it handles well and climbs well, it weighs 303lbs, and is reliable. I agree more power would be nice, and I understand that Cat had a prototype snowbike with the Blast 400 and CVT, I would love to try one if they ever build it.

 

[AKlowmarker]

Too heavy, too wide, poor track options. There was a snowbike race up here last season and the race organizers allowed a guy on a snowhawk to compete in the snowbike class. Snowbikes dominated being lighter, more nimble, and less fatiguing to ride at full speed.

I did not see a snowhawk in your list of previous on snow vehicles. Have you ridden one? If not, how do you know for sure what you have said is true?

Also, I would say rider skill is more important than power when it comes to a race like you had mentioned. Just look at all the guys on 125's that could beat 500's on a mx track

Having ridden snowbikes, I can say they are pretty slow and easy to ride comparatively. Good for Newbs and old guys to get out and enjoy

 

[AK_SNOWBIKE_CO]

I did not see a snowhawk in your list of previous on snow vehicles. Have you ridden one? If not, how do you know for sure what you have said is true?

Also, I would say rider skill is more important than power when it comes to a race like you had mentioned. Just look at all the guys on 125's that could beat 500's on a mx track

Having ridden snowbikes, I can say they are pretty slow and easy to ride comparatively. Good for Newbs and old guys to get out and enjoy

I have not ridden a snowhawk, however the closest thing to it was a Exosled I built back in 2020. There is a reason no one rides snowhawks anymore.

I will say, I doubt a snowhawk would keep up with a day out with modern snowbikes. 200lbs more than a snowbike, less nimble, more weight and more fatigue. Even a skilled rider would prefer a snowbike over a snowhawk. It’s been really interesting watching the Riley Suhan invitational race in Canada and seeing the snowbikes win the event over sleds. Lately it seems the snowbikes are always in the top 3 positions.

 

[NEWDUCK]

I wasnt there so I cant comment on the course but the course was set up by a snowbike rider.1st hawk, 2nd hawk, 3rd bike and not far behind at all. We still ride hawks but they are heavily modified...With that said I think we will slowly transition to snowbikes in the coming years. Ease of maintenance and the lightweight factor are appealing. Snowhawks are a handful but once you figure it out they are a blast. And it helps to have your buddies on them. Makes it way more enjoyable. If I found a 120 riot for cheap, id slap it on my 300sx and probably not ride my hawk anymore.

 

[byeatts]

I built a full custom Snowhawk. works fine in open terrain but in Snowbike terrain it's horrible . A sled far better in the trees and a Snowbike is king in them conditions. The snow hawk is heavy. Also I do not want a CVT, the over rev of the 450 race bike is what builds huge track speeds, Its not a sled so don't try to go that direction. I sold custom CVT clutch kits for sleds and for that application they work.CVT scrubs HP as well as being heavy and there's no over rev which when track is unweighted we gain 10 MPH track speed with a huge propel when ewe hit the snow. only advantage is for someone who doesn't know how to ride a dirt bike and shift.

 

[Hawkster]

Too heavy, too wide, poor track options. There was a snowbike race up here last season and the race organizers allowed a guy on a snowhawk to compete in the snowbike class. Snowbikes dominated being lighter, more nimble, and less fatiguing to ride at full speed.

Someone should of invited me

I'd swap out the 154 and put the 136 in for it., The handle bar is still wider then the machine, but it is a heavy weight for sure

To be honest comparing apples to oranges does not work. Who's the track set up for? Sleds, bikes, Hawks? How about hill climbing?

To be honest my heavy weight is also running 150-160 ponies and a little 600 breaks 110 on the gps.

Drags could be fun also

apples and oranges but I'd still show for fun and make up my own mind

A very good friend of mine rides a bike so don't get me wrong, we have some great conversations and ride very well together because we know the does and don't.

I personally enjoy watching others ride at the same time. Sometimes following off to the side is the most entertaining.

The bikes kick ass in their domain.

Technology has something to say when your comparing brand new to something from a machine that first came out in 2001.)

Old school


The bikes are way easier to ride. Understanding the difference is the key.

It's not I can't , It's I can.

I cut my own tracks.