Frame Geometry

[M5-]

We had both the YZ and the 500 out today and it is deep and light, places it was bar deep but mostly it was knocking feet off the pegs deep. The 500 even with the old TS kit still out climbs the YZ/Camso combination. That bike flat out rips. I bought a KTM frame so next season we will see. I'm thinking I may just slap a CMX 137 track on the old TS kit and the new framed KTM/CR500 and see how it goes. It'll be my 175 Doo.


M5

 

[wellfed777]

heck yeah ! do it and post that build

 

[tdorval]

Do you think there's much difference between an 08 ish and a 13 450? I've got a 13 450xcf and thought of swapping this before it blows up so I can sell the engine has crossed my mind. Not sure I'd run it in dirt but you never know. Just found a cr local to me. Decisions ... I haven't seen very many build threads with the newer bikes but lots in the 08 era. Just not sure there's a reason or what. Not terribly excited about mixing gas again but with e start available now and a pulse or lectron carb thing could be a riot.

 

[lawnboy]

Might be apple to oranges as you guys are working with a CR motor, but MotorCross action did a KX/KTM hybrid that fits this discussion. Seemed like a super easy build.

https://motocrossactionmag.com/we-ride-donny-emlers-kx500ktm-250sx-hybrid-two-stroke-project-bike1/

Good luck and keep the posts coming!

 

[M5-]

Do you think there's much difference between an 08 ish and a 13 450? I've got a 13 450xcf and thought of swapping this before it blows up so I can sell the engine has crossed my mind. Not sure I'd run it in dirt but you never know. Just found a cr local to me. Decisions ... I haven't seen very many build threads with the newer bikes but lots in the 08 era. Just not sure there's a reason or what. Not terribly excited about mixing gas again but with e start available now and a pulse or lectron carb thing could be a riot.

For this application I don't think there would be much difference between say an 08 or a 13. Both have the same head angle of 63.5 degrees. The reason the 08 to 11 frames work so well is the shape of the frame cradle. The XC4/RC4 450 motors are boxy on the bottom so the 450 frame cradle is square. If you look at a newer SXF there are two bends in the frame cradle. It needs to be modded to make room for the 500 motor. The 08-11 frame needs only new motor mounts. I picked up an 08 frame for $160 so no big loss if I mess it up. I'm going to cut off everything not needed for a snowbike and I will fab a new centered rear shock mount. I need to find a set of 14mm triples. I found a set of 18mm ones but I want to try the 14s.


M5

 

[rhino89523]

M5 not sure if you have been over on cr500riders.com but a dude on there with the screen name Roostius Maximus has been throwing 500 motors in ktm frames for a while. He also owns the other 500 website called bannedcr500riders. He also does all kinds of CR500 and kx500 stuff. He is out of Canada and his family owns MRE or Millar Racing engines I believe is what it stands for. He has all the spacers, frame mounts etc pre made for KTM swaps, I have a full set here for if I ever cross paths on a good ktm frame deal. Anyway might look him up. His name is Adam and he is very helpful. He also makes a sweet V force 2 reed block setup with spacer that makes the 500 scream pretty good and he is in the process of building a 2017 maybe 18 framed ktm for one of the magazines.

 

[M5-]

I know Adam, he has done a bunch of work for me.

M5

 

[M5-]

So I'm dragging this back to the top because I'm seriously thinking about doing this project. I measured the rake today of the following bikes.

YZ450F 27 degrees just like in the Yamaha specs

My KTM 450 EXC same frame as what I have (450 XCR)for the build is 26.5 degrees also as per KTM specs

CR500 steelie 32 degrees no wonder its a chopper plus the head tube is nearly a full inch farther forward than the KTM when the swing arm bolts are aligned between the two frames. The neck on the steelie frame is way out there.

Hmmmm


M5

 

[Kealo]

I think you shoud wait one more year. Honda is bringing back the CR500 and i am hoping it will be FI and have an elec start option. Would be a dream snowbike aet up in a race frame.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

So I'm dragging this back to the top because I'm seriously thinking about doing this project. I measured the rake today of the following bikes.

YZ450F 27 degrees just like in the Yamaha specs

My KTM 450 EXC same frame as what I have (450 XCR)for the build is 26.5 degrees also as per KTM specs

CR500 steelie 32 degrees no wonder its a chopper plus the head tube is nearly a full inch farther forward than the KTM when the swing arm bolts are aligned between the two frames. The neck on the steelie frame is way out there.

Hmmmm


M5

Grab a port a band and mig welder.

Chop the steering stem and tip it down and in.

1/2 hour later. Done!

 

[M5-]

I'd like to be able to return the bike to stock when I go to sell it so I'm not touching the Honda frame. 500's aren't going down in value these days.

M5

 

[dirtnerd]

So I'm dragging this back to the top because I'm seriously thinking about doing this project. I measured the rake today of the following bikes.

YZ450F 27 degrees just like in the Yamaha specs

My KTM 450 EXC same frame as what I have (450 XCR)for the build is 26.5 degrees also as per KTM specs

CR500 steelie 32 degrees no wonder its a chopper plus the head tube is nearly a full inch farther forward than the KTM when the swing arm bolts are aligned between the two frames. The neck on the steelie frame is way out there.

Hmmmm


M5

Did you put the camso kit on the 500? The stuff you mention about steering difficulty, I notice that same thing when I jump on my buddies YZ's and RMZ with TS kits. My 501 with the DTS kit is noticeabley easier to steer in the trees. (2010 YZ, 2014yz and 2018 yz all with various years ts kits, and one 17 rmz with 18 ts) You might find the DTS kit rides better, and if it is slightly better you can tweak the track angle to the point that you might lose some trail manners but gain steering in powder.

 

[M5-]

I have my TS and my Camso for sale at the moment. Depending on what sells will determine what kit the 500 gets. I am certain the Camso/500 would be an easier ride than the 500/TS currently is even on the Honda frame. The Camso is a very forgiving kit even though it weighs a ton. It would sure be nice if they knocked 15 lbs off of it though.


M5

 

[hollycow]

I've heard KTM clamps will fit the Honda frame, you just need to add stops to the frame. I wonder if the 14mm clamps would do much for the CR frame. I'm building a CR500 with KTM CC forks. Also I know the offset of the fork lugs vary cause I ran twin chamber Honda forks on my KTM 300XC for awhile and the off set on the Honda lugs was different. I have a set of 14s I'm going to try, they were mostly used by the supermotar guys, I think the KTM RFS motar bikes came with them stock.

 

[M5-]

I think the kit will make the most difference. What are you going to use. I'm not in love with the 500 steely frame no matter what forks it has.

M5