Ford's new 6.2 liter 400 hp gas engine.

[Ford428CJ]

You can't make a blanket statement about a motor requiring a certain amount of heat input without relating it to heat input per quantity of fuel burned as well as what engine RPM it is operating at. They don't operate that way ... doesn't matter what fuel you're talking about either, be it gas, diesel, CNG, natural gas, anything.

Are you saying it takes 7,000 btu/s to make 1 horsepower (550 ft-lbs/s)? Or are you saying it took 7,000 btus of total energy in whatever motor at whatever operating RPM and whatever effeciency that particular motor operated at to make 550 ft-lbs of power for one second ....?

Either way that makes no sense to me, because converting that out gives 1 btu as being equal to 778 ft-lbs ... soooo 778 ft-lbs / btu * 7,000 btu = 5446000 ft-lbs .... sooo ... it took 5446000 ft-lbs for the diesel motor to make 550 ft-lbs, giving an effeciency of %0.01 ... that isn't right .... so trying to make sense of that statement, 7,000 btu/s = ~9,900 horsepower ..... so in other words, your combustion process has to make 9,900 horsepower for your diesel to make ...let's just say 360 horsepower .... so you're at a %3.6 effeciency there ...? ... That can't be right either ... I need some help here on this.

I dunno .... I'm just not seeing the outlandish claims of vastley superior thermal effeciency of a diesel motor over a gasoline motor here, regardless of mechanical effeciency or increased heat of combution due to the fuel used ....

I just can't help but think that if they were that much more vastly superiorly effecient it would offset the additional capital and operating costs and there would literally be no such things as gasoline motors whatsoever anymore ... Not that this won't happen eventually due to the fact that you actually DO burn less diesel per mile driven on average .... it's just going to cost the consumer al lot more.....

I dunno, when you think of it in how many bbl/d of oil we'd use as a nation less using diesels, maybe in the long run on a national scale the costs of consumer diesel becoming widespread (read no more gasoline for passenger cars, etc) outweigh the costs of having to import that much more oil ....

I dunno ... like I said, I'm not bashing diesels, I just really fail to see the vastly superior mechanical/thermal/whatever effeciency of these motors on a per-case basis ....

Never mind.... I hate to say it but this is a lost cause! Over and out...

 

[Dogmeat]

Never mind.... I hate to say it but this is a lost cause! Over and out...

All I'm asking anyone here to do is provide me a simple explanation with some numbers that make sense to back up the claim of why modern day diesel motors are as "vastly more effecient" as everyone seems to claim they are than modern day spark-ignition motors.

It shouldn't be that hard to show me where I'm wrong here if I'm that wrong about it.

 

[Ford428CJ]

All I'm asking anyone here to do is provide me a simple explanation with some numbers that make sense to back up the claim of why modern day diesel motors are as "vastly more effecient" as everyone seems to claim they are than modern day spark-ignition motors.

It shouldn't be that hard to show me where I'm wrong here if I'm that wrong about it.

Sorry but you have a hard time trying to get through bare bones basics! I posted some of that. If you cant understand that then, you wont understand any of it which makes it work. Like higher C/R, raises your thermodynamics which helps make an engine more efficient. Diesel fuel is 15% denser then gasoline (working energy). It would be like trying to explain how a Jet Engine works. I'm not the best with words and try to talk with someone if they dont have a working knowlage of it. Good luck!!!

Maybe this will help you but it may not.... Enough said on my end.
http://www.thedieselpage.com/mileage.htm

http://www.compacttractorreview.com/articles/Diesel-OR-Gas.aspx

http://blog.cardomain.com/2009/09/03/diesel-vs-gas/

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel.htm

 

[Ford428CJ]

Here are some good Diesel Forums to check out....

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/index.php

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/

 

[Dogmeat]

Here are some good Diesel Forums to check out....

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/index.php

http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forums/

I'll check it out ....

What's the diesel forum you have to pay to use? Dieselpage.com or something?

Is that the best one there is? Might be worth registering on if they've got some hard comparison data over there, I'd really like to satisfy my curiosity ....

 

[Xrider]

http://turbodieselregister.com

 

[LETRGO]

Wow first post in three years and it won't even be sled related...lol

Let me start by saying I am a big diesel lover and own a 6.0l ford p.o.s diesel...

At work we have a 2011 3/4 ton ford dually flat deck,ext cab with the new 6.2 gasser.
We Also have a 2007 6.0L diesel regular cab flatdeck dually with 55,000 km.
2007 is the last and best year for a 6.0l

We were at 6200 feet at about 0 degrees C on a gravel road. I was driving the 6.0l and both are auto tranies.

Lined up beside each other at a 20mph roll. I got into the throttle first and once the turbo finally spooled I was ahead by a bumper width for a split second then that 6.2 gasser pulled on me pretty hard and there was no way I was catching him...I was VERY impressed to say the least. We both had the same equipment so the same whieght only the 6.2 has about 1000km on it (not broken in yet) and if anything the 6.2 was an extended cab so chassis wize it would be heavier. I drove the truck after and it reves to 6100 rpms and sounds pretty sweet.
our older 2010's have the 5.4 gassers in them and they are pigs on fuel compared to these new 6.2's. Just my two cents.

P.S-The 6.2 was about four truck lengths ahead by the end of the "race"and probably would have kept pulling on me but it was so dusty I had to let off..and I thought I seen the foreman coming...lol

 

[Clarke673]

Not true. If it is anything like gm's 8.1 they were right with the diesels for mileage when LOADED. Sure, empty the deisels get better milage, but loaded, is a different story. Alot like the good ol 460's. 10 mpg empty, 10 mpg hauling everything but the kitchen sink behind you. My Dad's 8.1 only gets about 13-14 empty, but still gets 9 pulling a 25' fith wheel with a 20' boat behind it! And loaded like that, will pull a grade with any stock diesel. For the record, I have a 7.3 powerstroke and have had it for several years. I can't say it has been a bad truck, but I am not convinced that they are the best way to go either. My next truck will be a gasser. No more $100+ oil changes, and all the other things that go with the deisels. Going round and round at the gas station to fuel the truck AND the toys. Lots of little things.

Huh? The worst mileage i have ever got with my duramax was when i was pulling my 96 chevy mud truck 160 miles doing 75-85 mph. It was 10.3 mpg.... Your telling me that's what a gasser would have gotten? My friends 6.0 chevy truck gets about 11-13 just driving, and 8 pulling his camper.

IMO, the best "truck" gas engine is the chevy 5.3l. Reliable, snappy, good fuel economy (had a yukon and it averaged about 16.

Ford engines have never been good. Ask anyone who drag races, a 300 hp chevy will eat a 400 hp ford any day. The only ford engine that impresses me is the 6.4, the 6.7 is still in the air. I will only have a gas truck for a mud truck for weight issues. I honestly think diesels are by far a better engine to power a vehicle. Yeah, oil is more pricy, if you own a ford you might have to plug it in when it gets cold, fuel is a bit more, but with proper upkeep, you don't have to throw your truck away at 200,000 miles.

 

[stickk]

I have owned 1 gasser truck and 3 diesels since 1996. The gasser was a 2001 f-150 super crew with the 5.4. The diesels were a 1996 7.3, 2002 7.3 and I currently have a 2006 Dodge Cummins. I don't know how a GM 8.1 performs or the type of fuel mileage it gets, but when towing anything in the mountains with the vehicles I have had, a diesel performs much better than a gas motor. My brother had a 2001 f-250 with the v-10 and compared to my '02 7.3 it would get about 1/2 the fuel economy while towing similar loads. I think that at lower elevations the gassers do better than at higher elevations.

Now for a comparison of costs to operate versus the cost of the vehicle bases only on fuel cost/economy and oil changes. It takes approximatley 200,ooo miles to recoup the cost of a diesel. I base this only from my experience with my diesel trucks and my brothers v-10. I have averaged about 16-17 mpg on all 3 of the diesels I have owned. I have gotten better mpg's than that on a tank of fuel in some instances, but never for long periods of time. I'm sure there are some who get better fuel economy than I have, but I doubt its a majority.

With all that said I have to say that I don't plan on owning a gas powered truck in the near future. And I am planning on keeping my Dodge as long as possible. It has 151k on it now and would like to see 3 times that if the Dodge part of it will make it!

 

[RockyMountainKrazy]

Huh? The worst mileage i have ever got with my duramax was when i was pulling my 96 chevy mud truck 160 miles doing 75-85 mph. It was 10.3 mpg.... Your telling me that's what a gasser would have gotten? My friends 6.0 chevy truck gets about 11-13 just driving, and 8 pulling his camper.

IMO, the best "truck" gas engine is the chevy 5.3l. Reliable, snappy, good fuel economy (had a yukon and it averaged about 16.

Ford engines have never been good. Ask anyone who drag races, a 300 hp chevy will eat a 400 hp ford any day. The only ford engine that impresses me is the 6.4, the 6.7 is still in the air. I will only have a gas truck for a mud truck for weight issues. I honestly think diesels are by far a better engine to power a vehicle. Yeah, oil is more pricy, if you own a ford you might have to plug it in when it gets cold, fuel is a bit more, but with proper upkeep, you don't have to throw your truck away at 200,000 miles.

I have a 2002 crew cab chevy with the 8.1L and Allison transmission that I bought new. It always amazes me that I can drive down the highway completely empty and only get about 12 mpg. I can then hook my 36ft 12,000lb camper that is almost 13 feet tall on to it and the worst mileage that I have ever gotten is 8mpg and that was pulling into a 20mph headwind. I usually get 9-10mpg no matter what I am pulling. One of my very good friends has a 2008 crew cab with the 6.0L and may get about 15mpg empty but when we hook my enclosed snowmobile trailer on, mileage drops to 6 no matter what the conditions are. I love the 8.1L engine and I won't be buying anything until there are some real miles on these new 6.2L engines and I can hear some real world feedback. I am a true believer in the old saying that "there is no replacement for displacement." I would love to have a Duramax but I just can't justify the cost.

Matt