Flex Fuel

[Mafesto]

In some geographic areas, E85 (or E10 for that matter) is not discounted enough to attain a dollar savings.
That's for sure.

But what frustrates me is the attitude that some have.
Many of you refuse to burn it even if it's a wash economically.
I don't understand that rationale.

Statements like ...."I won't support the ethanol industry"
WTF is that about?

You dumb ***, the alternative is supporting the oil companies.....hello!!!!!

 

[Blu Du]

hay maf in s dakota what is that super gas you have. a dime cheaper then regular. is just a little bit of ethanol? we don't have that in mn. only a hand full of stations have e85.

 

[Mafesto]

E10 or 10%
It has been a dime cheaper, but I think the last time I filled it was only a nickel cheaper.

 

[xrated]

In some geographic areas, E85 (or E10 for that matter) is not discounted enough to attain a dollar savings.
That's for sure.

But what frustrates me is the attitude that some have.
Many of you refuse to burn it even if it's a wash economically.
I don't understand that rationale.

Statements like ...."I won't support the ethanol industry"
WTF is that about?

You dumb ***, the alternative is supporting the oil companies.....hello!!!!!

No I won't support the corn based ethanol industry. There are lots of other ways to make it, and MN is prime for those ways. Also ways that are of more benefit to the wildlife and nature as a whole.

 

[Mafesto]

No I won't support the corn based ethanol industry. There are lots of other ways to make it, and MN is prime for those ways. Also ways that are of more benefit to the wildlife and nature as a whole.

There are many base stocks to produce ethanol.
Currently, corn based ethanol makes the most economic sense (in the midwest).
As technology increases more doors will open for sure.
R&D for alternative sources is made possible by the current ethanol methodology.
I see no down side to supporting the industry as doing so will expediate the progress of this R&D.

 

[Estevahn]

Well put Mafesto.

 

[milehighassassin]

http://e85prices.com/colorado.html
There is a calculator that makes it really easy (not that it is that hard). You enter the price of E85 and your mileage then you enter the price of RUG and your mileage.


I ran it in a Taurus I had it and ran pretty good in Fort Collins. When it was in Vail and it was cold it ran like complete poo, same when I was going over the passes. E85 is about 106 octane. I think there is too much octane to run well at elevation. More octane reduces detonation. Fine if you have advanced timing or increased compression but I don't think it gave a solid detonation on a stock low performance vehicle. Again, it ran good in Denver and Fort Collins, but when I was above 8000 feet it had some issues particularly when it was cold.

I like running E85 even though it costs a little more. Most of the fuel I buy is from the U.S. I will pay a few more bucks a tank for that. Granted I wish we had a more efficient method in use to produce it, not corn, maybe algae

 

[xrated]

There are many base stocks to produce ethanol.
Currently, corn based ethanol makes the most economic sense (in the midwest).
As technology increases more doors will open for sure.
R&D for alternative sources is made possible by the current ethanol methodology.
I see no down side to supporting the industry as doing so will expediate the progress of this R&D.

you have good points.

maybe algae -just think though I don't remember numbers but yes algae is insanely better per acre. With all the money subsidizing corn ethanol think how far we could be in algae ethanol. Hell you can grow that stuff year round in doors.

 

[Superjag]

There are many base stocks to produce ethanol.
Currently, corn based ethanol makes the most economic sense (in the midwest).
As technology increases more doors will open for sure.
R&D for alternative sources is made possible by the current ethanol methodology.
I see no down side to supporting the industry as doing so will expediate the progress of this R&D.

I respectfully disagree. Corn-based ethanol does not make sense at this time, at least on a global scale. The increased demand for corn as result of ethanol production is leading to clearing of land for corn farming which ultimately is resulting in an overall net increase in carbon dioxide. For example, in countries like Brazil, farmers receive a fairly significant yearly stipend from the federal government as an incentive to keep a certain portion of their land as native grassland and rain forest. However, with the increased demand for corn to be used in ethanol production, farmers are finding that they can make more money by clearing the grassland/rain forest and planting and selling corn. The problem is that the native plants and trees which they clear to grow corn are (or were) enormous carbon stores as well as being major oxygen producers. The newly-planted corn plants are not at all good carbon stores, and so there is an overall increase in carbon dioxide per square foot of land. The same thing goes in the Midwest. Areas of trees and grassland which are also good carbon stores are being cleared to plant corn crop, which again , is not a good carbon store. Now, add on top of that the fact that most of the clearing taking place is done with heavy equipment which burns non-ethanol fuel and spews carbon monoxide, and what the ethanol market has done to the price of corn used for food/consumption my humans, and you have a losing hand. And this argument is essentially ignoring some pretty strong evidence that it takes more energy to make a gallon of corn-based ethanol than the amount of energy produced by that same gallon.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying about the need for R&D in terms of ethanol or other alternative energy sources, but for the time being, corn-based ethanol does not make sense from either an environmental or an economic standpoint. Those R&D dollars will have to come from somewhere else.

 

[Powder Nomad]

Korn

Superjag... is your avatar a sleestack??? Great googely, haven't seen one of them since forever! Great series, Land of the Lost... guess that kinda ties in w/ this thread (corny)?

Anyhoo... I doubt that here in the Midwest much clearing of land which hadn't already been cleared to farm has occurred to cash in on the corn rush. A lot of ground was probably taken out of government subsidized programs to idle the ground, but most of it had probably been cleared already. AND, whatever clearing was done, I would guess is significantly less than the amount of ground lost to urban sprawl and development.

That doesn't necessarily mean that plowing up ground which had been seeded back to grass doesn't have an impact, it clearly does. But, if we were to fast forward 10 years and the technology's there to significantly produce more ethanol from other stocks, from what little I've read, most of those other stocks are gonna have to be grown as well (switchgrass, elephant grass, whatever). So that 'plowing of of idled ground' may need to happen anyway.

To answer the original question... I've run E85 in my Avalanche off and on... have only had it six months, so not sure what it's like in the winter. From what I have run it... I can't tell a power difference, mileage is about 15% worse, with fuel costs about 20% less, so it's slightly advantageous to me to run it, but is kind of a PITA because the stations aren't convenient for me.

Nomad

 

[Superjag]

Superjag... is your avatar a sleestack??? Great googely, haven't seen one of them since forever! Great series, Land of the Lost... guess that kinda ties in w/ this thread (corny)?

Anyhoo... I doubt that here in the Midwest much clearing of land which hadn't already been cleared to farm has occurred to cash in on the corn rush. A lot of ground was probably taken out of government subsidized programs to idle the ground, but most of it had probably been cleared already. AND, whatever clearing was done, I would guess is significantly less than the amount of ground lost to urban sprawl and development.

That doesn't necessarily mean that plowing up ground which had been seeded back to grass doesn't have an impact, it clearly does. But, if we were to fast forward 10 years and the technology's there to significantly produce more ethanol from other stocks, from what little I've read, most of those other stocks are gonna have to be grown as well (switchgrass, elephant grass, whatever). So that 'plowing of of idled ground' may need to happen anyway. Nomad

Those are good points re the Midwest. I was thinking more on a global scale ( the Midwest obviously being included in that) but you are probably right about the land clearing issue as it applies to us here in the Midwest.

And yes, it's a sleestack. Used to love that show as a kid.

 

[Fordman]

Here we go again with the E85 debate.

I have found in my vehicle that it gets 24% worse mileage. This is after going ten tanks of each type of fuel.

So, on a strictly economic basis, E85 needs to be 24% less expensive than normal petrol for it to be even.

I found the power sucked and my foot was down on the pedal harder as well........

I have not checked or paid attention to the unleaded -vs- E85 pricing for awhile, but 6 months ago, E85 was only about 15-17% cheaper than unleaded.

It just did not make sense on so many levels to use this fuel.

It may have changed though.........

The is in the Twin Cities by the way. It could be a much different story elsewhere.....

2007 Tahoe.... and a 2008 Grand Cherokee... Everything he said is 100% true.

 

[xrated]

good wording on Brazil, but the farmers and the country use sugar cane for ethanol and they hit it hard. e85 pumps are as common as gas pumps, unlike the US

 

[Mafesto]

Corn has been under $4 for quite awhile now, so the old 'ethanol is causing high commodity prices" arguement is a proven falsehood.

 

[H2SNOW]

I waited awhile to reply ...if we gotta resort to planted corn etc for fuel in are vehicles ie: robbin the bread basket for go go juice in our cars then I say fawk it selli the cars and buy a horse ............no amount of fuel savings etc is worth eatin up our grub ...period ............fields are for wheat,corn and barley....barley for beer that is ............

 

[Jeff C]

Real facts and figures, that's all I ask.
stir baby stir

I gave them to you already.......

These are actual numbers that I got while testing both fuels.

 

[Jeff C]

you have good points.

maybe algae -just think though I don't remember numbers but yes algae is insanely better per acre. With all the money subsidizing corn ethanol think how far we could be in algae ethanol. Hell you can grow that stuff year round in doors.

I could run my vehicles for ten years if I just clean out my 10 year olds' fish tank. There is so much algae in that tank you can't even see the fish anymore.......

 

[Fordman]

E85 in Snoqualmie Washington is now 2.79 a gallon

 

[graveler]

unleaded is $2.89

 

[H2SNOW]

and to the commi basterd that left this as my rep .;......go fawk yerself ...
direct quote
"learn to talk your dumb *** redneck. you are an idiot, glad you are far from me"