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Flathead Nation Forest shut down after March 15th....

R

Rush44

Well-known member
Flathead National Forest shut down after March 15th....

Kiss it goodbye, fellas. Read it and weep....
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2008/06/05/news/news02.txt

How much longer do we need to put up with Keith Hammer and his need to shutdown the forest to the rest of us responsible users? How far does this have to go? And what studies prove that snowmobiling has any effect on bear population? In the article it says something about new information, but they aren't going to look at it before making an official call. All in the pursuit of regulation and the "Green Way", which is being forced upon us.

Civil disobedience could be coming......
 
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Are you KIDDING me! And, of course, after the year we just had. I would LOVE to see some SCIENTIFIC data that supports the claim that WE have a major affect on bears! Hey Rush, take a trip up here to Whitefish and bring a shovel, I'll pack the rifle, actually, I'm pretty sure they would never find his body in the North Fork right now!
 
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Started thinking about this a little more, Big Mtn uses sleds for ski patrol, and also uses groomers, do these rules apply to them too, or just us, the responsible riders?
 
just skimmed it, but here's my question and it pertains to all land issues.

Who is a judge to decide what is best for a forest and all it encompasses. Shouldn't that be the Foresters job? We don't have judges decided if a tumor needs to be removed, we let the Drs do that...
 
I'm not good on my geographic boundaries. Does Flathead National Forest extend to Surveyor, Seeley Lake and Lincoln?

If not, I would imagine this same argument will eventually be made by the greenies for closing down other National Forests at the same time for the same reason. I also imagine the same Judge will preside over other Montana cases on this same issue??

I's amazing to me the Judge just said "screw you" to the FWS determination/position on bears.

March 15th........that's just when the best ridin' starts.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/06/06/news/local/news05.txt

Here's the link to the Missoulian article. You've gotta read.

Anybody got a nice trail machine for sale? 136 track.....4 stoke of of course with suitcase silencer. Oh, by the way, let me know where and when I can ride it. I would also like to pay huge registration fees to fund wildlife protection. Let me know if we can do the Yellowstone-type guided tours into Hoodoo and Crooked Fork.


Here's link to a Map of Flathead National Forest.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/flathead/maps/fnf_vicinity_map.shtml
 
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Who is a judge to decide what is best for a forest and all it encompasses. Shouldn't that be the Foresters job? We don't have judges decided if a tumor needs to be removed, we let the Drs do that...

It's called the Endangered Species Act and anyone can sue to enfores the act, and it is then up to the agency that is sued to prove that the species is not being harmed. Kind of a$$ backwards don't you think?

So the Forest Service and Fish & Wildlife Service actually said snowmobile use was OK in the spring, Keith Hammer and his good for nothing buddies with Swan View Coalition sued and said the snowmobiles were endangering, possible killing grizzly bears with young cubs, when they emergered from their dens in the spring. The judge agreed with them, and BAMOO, snowmobiling is closed March 15. And it will remain that way I would guess until the FS and FWS can PROVE that snowmobiles do not harm grizzly bears.

If not, I would imagine this same argument will eventually be made by the greenies for closing down other National Forests at the same time for the same reason. I also imagine the same Judge will preside over other Montana cases on this same issue??

I would tend to agree with your statement "go high fast".

It is a bad deal anyway you look at it.

SAWS was informed about this by SAWS member aadougie here on this forum yesterday. We sent out a news item to some of our SAWS members regarding this yesterday and today. Here is a portion of that email:


That's right, snowmobiling season now ends in popular snowmobile use areas in Flathead National Forest (FNF) in northwest Montana on March 15, thanks to a recent ruling by U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy.

The article below came to us from a SAWS member in Bigfork, Montana yesterday, and the article was then sent out by our Montana SAWS Rep to our SAWS members across Montana and North Dakota. I felt it was important enough to forward on to our SAWS members that I cover the email distribution for. A similar ruling may be coming to forest near you some day too.

What applies to snowmobile use in grizzly bear habitat in the FNF during spring, certainly seems capable of being applied to the huge grizzly bear habitat in northwest Wyoming referred to as the Yellowstone Ecosystem, or even to other smaller grizzly bear habitats in NE Washington and N Idaho.

Here is another article from the Missoulian Newspaper on this same ruling:
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/06/06/news/local/news05.txt

We will need to keep a close eye on this issue. Hopefully this ruling will be overturned.


Dave
Snowmobile Alliance of Western States

-----Original Message-----

MT SAWS Members,

Did you like Spring riding in the Flathead Forest? This opportunity no longer exists!

Do you like riding in a forest near you? Please keep watch of what is happening in your riding areas - your riding may become increasingly limited..............................

As a SAWS member who brought this issue to my attention states:
"March 15th is now the de facto close to snowmobiling in the Flathead Forest with the stroke of this Federal Judge's pen..."

Janine,
Montana SAWS Rep

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2008/06/05/news/news02.txt
 
One of my best rides this year was April 29th at the Sixmile Area.... done on the 15th now. Keith Hammer, if you remember, was the one who spear-headed having the Peter's Ridge section closed to snowmobilers who were using it to access the Lost Johnny areas behind the Hungry Horse Reservior. This guy isn't going to stop until he has put an end to all outdoor recreation that does not suit him.

I've been mad about some things before.... but this is huge. And nobody knew it was going on until it hit the paper. How did this issue stay so quiet?
 
“The government admitted springtime snowmobiling can harm, if not kill, female grizzly bears with young emerging from their dens,” Swan View Coalition Chairman Keith Hammer said in a May 29 release. “We're glad the judge saw through the twisted logic claiming this was a benefit to bears.”

Yeah, when we ride our machines it kills a sow and her cubs. THAT is twisted logic.

Hammer added that he hopes the ruling sticks, and that “the Forest Service will now do away with this unprecedented spring snowmobiling permanently, so we don't end up right back in court again.”

WTF is unprecedented spring snowmobiling?

Who DOESN'T ride after march 15th?
 
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"Keith knows better science, better law and is more competent than 95% of activists working today....The agents of death to wilderness travel on roads and Keith has used the Forest Service's own regulations to close more roads in US National Forests than any activist in the entire country."
Jasper Carlton, of the Biodiversity Legal Foundation, a long-time, effective litigator on behalf of endangered species. "We've been effective because we focus on a few issues, a defined geographic area that I know and hike and love, and because we've studied how the science and the law works. We've carefully chosen our shots. Then, when we decide to move on an issue, we've been relentless. Just relentless. Also, I work only a few hours a day. That contributes a lot to my effectiveness. A lot of our problems stem from our obsession with what we do rather than who we are."



Keith Hammer
After finishing school, Keith Hammer worked for the National Forest Service on a trail maintenance crew and then as a small-scale logger. Now, at the age of 43, he directs the Swanview Coalition -- a grassroots group focused on closing roads in the Flathead National Forest. Swanview's membership fluctuates between 75 and 100 members, mostly in Northwest Montana. "There have been times when we had an international membership," he says, "but the guy moved back from Japan..." On the back of their newsletter is an appeal asking supporters to select from one of three contribution categories: "A token", "A chunk" or "All you've got". At one point in the interview, Keith said, "Activism has to be fun on some level. To a certain degree it has to be hell-raising -- well-intended and directed hell-raising, but it has to be hell-raising. You have to enjoy stirring up the pot a little. Rocking the boat. Getting people to think."
Keith lives north of Big Fork, Montana and east of Kalispell on Foothill Road -- the country road furthest up into the Swan Mountain foothills. Many of his neighbors are artisans, crafts people, carpenters, and people doing "informational work like me -- people with their offices at home who use fax machines and email." I asked Keith if his activist work paid enough to support him. "It's enough to live simply, which is all I ask for."
His house is a small cabin built on the bed of an old semi-trailer. "Now I've added on to it isn't mobile anymore. But it's still relatively small. And I have a smattering of other small buildings, mostly made out of re-cycled wood from places that were being torn down. They are about eight by sixteen, or sixteen by sixteen -- easy to heat with wood. Over the years, I've selectively logged the seven acres of land I own here. I've tried to take personal responsibility for the wood I've used. I don't want some timber corporation creaming a mountainside and saying that they did it for me. So I decided to do it in my own backyard....Instead of oil wells in National Forests, maybe they should be in suburban backyards.

"I once got an invitation in the mail from a realty company for a free appraisal. I thought, 'Why not?'" Two women came out and as they stepped out of their car, they seemed in kind of a state of shock. They tried to be polite, but you could tell it was difficult. All of my places are on makeshift foundations. They are so small that they don't need real foundations -- they just kind of float on the surface. To sum it all up, none of my buildings would qualify for a FHA loan or anything like that. And yet I'm content. We use one building as a creative space, for meditation, an art studio and as a guest house....Some of my friends like to come up and hang out for a couple or three weeks in the summer....

"One of the primary things that I am up against personally is distinguishing between quality and quantity. It's also a major impediment to the social changes that we need -- to consume less, to be content with less, and yet still have a high quality of life. Yes, we all need shelter. But there are some ways to provide ourselves with inexpensive, easy-to-heat shelter....It's a challenge living what we espouse, but if you can do it, you find an inner peace. Being true to ourselves is the most valuable teaching we can offer, to ourselves or anybody.

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Effectiveness

"We decided to concentrate on roads for a bunch of reasons. First, almost anything that adversely affects wilderness requires a road: logging, mining, hunting, ATVs, snowmobiles, mineral and oil and gas extraction. Second, the regulations governing roads are clear and easy to understand; roads that adversely affect threatened or endangered species can't be built. If they already have been built, they must be removed. Also, roads are something that an ordinary person can easily understand and challenge the Agency on, based on some time out on a weekend. It's not like trying to understand wildlife biology, or count grizzly bears or woodpeckers. Roads sit there. You can go out and photograph 'em or measure them with the odometer on your car or your bicycle.

"The Forest Service does it's own research into roads and how they affect threatened species like grizzly bears and bull trout. Grizzly bears require big chunks of undeveloped land. Unlike wolves and other species that may be in trouble, grizzly bears have a slow reproductive rate. They are down to less than one percent of their original numbers, and less than one percent of their range in the lower 48. They are an excellent indication of true wilderness. The results of these studies often conflict with what the Forest Service wants to do, so they can be difficult to get a hold of. It may even require suing them under The Freedom of Information Act -- but eventually you can get access to them.

"The Forest Service recently acknowledged that there are at least sixty thousand miles of roads in our National Forests that aren't accounted for. They even admit that their estimate is conservative. The only reason that there is an estimate at all is that activist groups have been hammering on them, literally, forest by forest, road by road. There could easily be two or three times that number. To close roads, we've sometimes had to resort to lawsuits....Well, actually, we've had to resort to about twenty-five or thirty lawsuits. We've learned to file them not only against the Forest Service, but also against the Fish & Wildlife Service, who are supposed to enforce road issues on behalf threatened and endangered species. Often, though, it's politically inconvenient so the laws aren't enforced without court orders."

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War Stories

"We try to keep three lawsuits going at a time going on the Flathead National Forest. The favorite tactic of the Federal Bureaucracy is the shell game. You file a lawsuit against the forest plan, and they tell the judge that if a citizen group wants to stop a particular timber sale, they have to sue against that sale. If you do that, the Agency responds tells the judge that you are in the wrong place, that you should be suing over the Forest Plan. So our strategy is to sue at both those levels, and perhaps a third level of planning and put them all in front of the same judge. That seems to slow down the bull****.

"Of the cases that the Forest Service doesn't settle, we have won the great majority. Our victories though usually only come on appeal. We have a pro-development district court out here and an old judge that has been around forever. We lose everything in his courtroom....But we're on a first name basis.

"On the Flathead we shut the logging program almost completely down one year -- they cut less than six million board feet, when they were planning on a hundred. We did it by using their own science to prove that they already had too many roads. We won that with a young attorney just out of law school who wanted to help grizzly bears. We were joined in the suit by the Sierra Club Legal Fund, but ultimately we disagreed with Sierra over a major issue and parted company. The young attorney stuck with us and in the end, out of twelve claims, the one he stuck with us on was the only one we won. It was a major, major victory. Precedent-setting. Sometimes it's like watching the numbers line up on the jackpot machine. It is impossible to figure out, but it's humbling to sit back and realize that there is something larger at work. We stumbled across paperwork that proved our case. We were up against all odds and had to even fight other environmentalists to persevere."
 
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The Land Speaks to us

"There's a spirit that watches out for the land. It has kept me going. This work puts us at odds with our neighbors and to a certain degree brands us as social outcasts. Being moved by that spirit is the only way I could keep doing this. On some level, those of us who do this don't have any choice. It's where we get our passion. The closer we stay in touch with both the land and that spirit that watches out for it, the more effective we will be. It's the only way to sustain this work without burning out and it's the reason I only work for forests that I've spent time in. When we go out into the woods a lot goes on that is totally subconscious. I really believe that spirit carries through to what we do when we leave the woods. Whether we are activists or just raising our family. Whatever we do. It carries us through life.

"For that spirit to reach you, you need quiet. You can't be sitting on top of a dirt bike, or in a motor vehicle, or flying over in a airplane or a helicopter. It's hard to hear the good voices that are in our mind, and the voices that come from the Earth when it's noisy. Or when we are preoccupied with just doing something. Or consuming something....We somehow have this strange idea that by racing around or making lots of noise that we will be happier than other cultures."
Peace-Loving Warriors

"Almost without exception, the activists I work with on a daily basis are some of the most peaceful, peace-loving and fun-loving people I have had the pleasure to know. And they are also warriors. So we have this remarkable contradiction of people who prefer to live their life in peace, and yet are engaged daily in turmoil, in battles, whether it's with a federal agency or timber corporation. Or a chemical corporation. Or a social circumstance, a social cause. It's a continual challenge -- arriving at a peaceful existence and at the same time being the type of warrior that I need to be to affect the kind of change that needs to happen. The challenge is to maintain and implement social change without becoming part of the problem. To sit down with bureaucrats and not be bowled over or intimidated and at the same time try and maintain a heart-centered way of being. It isn't all about having the best brains. It's about trying to do what's right in our hearts. In the thick of battle, the key is to remember that we are trying to arrive at a just and heart-centered solution to the problem....It's easier for me to accomplish that if I work for only so many hours a day. Before everything else, I have to allow myself a peaceful existence and time to renew myself out on the land.

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Integrity
"You can be more effective as an activist if you read the history of the U.S. government's interaction with Native Americans. I have learned that they they are so focused on their objective -- cutting trees -- that how they get there or what they have to say is really not important to them. My first experience in the first timber sale we fought -- the dishonesty involved -- really committed me as an activist. Well, maybe my basically stubborn and belligerent attitude contributed something too, but the main reason was that the government lied to the public and we caught them red-handed. We spent hours and hours and days and days going through their files, and uncovered documents that clearly contradicted the representations they were making to the public and the press. Their own landscape architect refused sign off on the report written for public release....

"The essential role that an activist plays is committing the time to sift through all the jargon and ferret out the truth, and then to disseminate that. Someone working eight hours a day doesn't have the time to do that. He or she might go to the government agency or to industry, listen to their story and maybe go home frustrated, or maybe believing the Agency, but probably thinking they don't have the time to sift through all the conflicting information.

"When the chips are down, people will believe the government before they will believe an activist. They will fall back in bed with the government for security's sake. That's a major impediment to real change."

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Relations in the Community

"A lot of this work is not fun. We all want to be loved and to be a part of our community. We don't want to be ostracized. A dear cost gets paid in terms of our physical and spiritual and emotional well-being. There are ways to live our lives that don't rile people up so much. But you have to stand up for your truth. It's a balancing act. Constant confrontation can burn you out. I grew up with a lot of my neighbors. Went to high school with them -- raced dirt bikes with them -- out tearing up the country side. When people find out that I was once a logger they sometimes ask why I am trying to put them out of work. A few grasp it -- lots of loggers don't like the kind of logging that they have to do to make ends meet. They have mortgages and car payments and boat payments and ATV payments. They would much rather be doing work that is gentler on the land, but they are over the barrel. Some of them think I am a traitor.

"I have received death threats. I get into an issue hot and heavy and my mail box will get blown up. Blow up, shot up. Those things go in waves. People get frustrated and start throwing threats around. But fortunately, it's never come any further than the end of my driveway.

"It comes down to respecting what we feel within ourselves. That truly spirited part of our self. That part that sees, feels, believes that we need to change things. It's a constant struggle back and forth on how far you push that. How far do you want to be alienated from your community? At what point do you pull back from what you are saying and from how you say it? Pull back so that you still have a social life. How an activist deals with these issues gives a pretty good core read on them both as person and as an activist. Their effectiveness depends on where they draw that line. 'How far out there am I willing to pursue these beliefs when it risks my social well-being?' But it's not all negative. This work has led to some real friendships with the writers, artists and social workers living around here. Women who have started rape crisis centers for instance. That type of thing. We see the different issues we work on as being related. We are all talking about justice -- justice toward women, justice toward the Earth. My close circle of friends are creative people who speak out whether on social issues or environmental issues. We are all talking the same language."

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Intuition

"In my first couple of years as an activist, Jasper Carlton was a neighbor. He taught me something important: 'Play by their rules, they win. Play by your rules, you win.' I learned early that playing by their rules is bad news for the Earth.

"One of the government's tactics is to give us two hundred times as much information as we ask for to snow us under. They know there is no way we can get through it all. It becomes a matter of intuition to reach into the boxes and pull out the stuff that matters. It may or may not be what Jasper intended, but it's what I've learned to apply and it's been effective. Our deeper levels of consciousness are way ahead of us. They go right to the heart of the matter. It is much more heart-centered than brain-centered. One of the things I've written down to keep me on the right track is: "Our heart knows at once what our mind must carve into a thousand pieces."

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Buddhism

"I'm incredibly stubborn and bullheaded, but I'd burn out if it weren't for some deep-seated spiritual beliefs that renew me. I don't consider myself necessarily a Buddhist, but in terms of the different religions I've read about, I'm probably closer to that than anything else. I relate to the Buddhist principle that everything is connected. What we do affects everything else. It's just a belief, a feeling, a faith: every action we take changes everything else in the world. And vice versa. Everything else changes us, and everyone else's actions affect and change us.

"I've learned to value silence, value the act of doing nothing, to be centered as a human being as opposed to a human doing. The Protestant work ethic is deeply ingrained in all of us. I don't know if I've met a person who hasn't done battle with that concept. The societal norm is to value ourselves based on what we do as opposed to who we are.

"A big part of why we have so much development going on in the woods is because people think they have to be busy all the time. Everybody is out there trying to make more money, or buy a bigger house, or a bigger boat or another car. In these battles you come up against guys who really don't like you stopping a timber sale because he has payments to make on his snowmobile or his house. It's a little easier to cut slack when someone is trying to feed and clothe their family, but in so many instances, people are trying to buy additional luxuries instead of being content with what they logged last year."
 
Is it just me, or does "mentally ill" cross anyone else's mind reading some of the information Tom posted about this idiot?

We just had our best ride yet last Thursday at Lincoln and we saw no wildlife tracks, but one set of something far up the mountain that was for sure not bear.

In all of our years of sledding all combined on this forum, has ANYone ever hit any animal (let alone a bear) on their snowmobile? I know a couple of you have had the occasional pissed-off Moose attack, but really...

We pay for membership in the club every year just for this reason, to try to have some clout as a group, but memberships seem to be declining, around where we are anyway.
 
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Ok, so this officially SUCKS, I know this has happened in other places, what have you guys done to turn this crap around? We need to fight this, FS agrees with us, so we DO have evidence. WHAT CAN WE DO?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Write editorials with compelling FACTUAL information about him and his tactics, and unreasonable blanket approach to equal access and multiple use.

Write LOTS of them. And get your friends to as well.

Sounds like the only thing he's missing is a good "donkey punch".
 
That sucks :(

Donating money isnt going to help this situation much, what will really hit home?
 
I just got off the phone with Rob Carlin with the Flathead National Forest Supervisors Office. He thinks that the Forest Service might be able to prove that over-snow access after March 15th does not affect bear population. He said to not get "over-hyped" about the Daily Interlake article or the Missoulian article because they were taken only from Keith Hammer's perspective. He said he feels confident that we could have this issue recinded and Amendment 24 upheld before December 1st of the 2008-09 season.

Rob also said that the study from the Biological station was thrown out only because the report came out during the trial. The judge had to look it over to throw it out and Rob said he and the litigation team feel that a positive ruling will come soon. The findings in the report are supposed to confirm the FS's information that late season snowmobiling does not effect waking Grizzlies and that thier population is VERY robust and had been climbing much faster than thier initial projections. The study is being done based on DNA, which Rob says should hold up in court. The problem with FNF system is funding, and it's inability to afford mass amounts of tracking collars for research. It is the collars and tracking system that led to the de-listing of Grizzlies as an endangered species in Yellowstone National Park, which has far more money to conduct this kind of research. Grizzly bear population has been growing during late-season snowmobiling, and the denial of that is the cornerstone of the Swan View Coalition spearheaded by Keith Hammer.

Rob doesn't feel that other areas are in danger of being closed and that he actually feels that there is a turning point coming in regards to snow access. The only place he is currently concerned with is the Moosehead area, which I am not familiar with. Apparently it's an area set up from a previous fire near Big Mountain which is being accessed by a series of 10 culverts put in by the Forest Service. Keith and his buddies are trying to get the 100 year flood culverts taken out, thus stopping snowmobiling to the area.

Fight people, fight! Information is the most powerful thing we have.
 
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What a tard Hammer is. So he was a commercial logger, and still privately logs. Yet shuts down access to other loggers. And admittedly enjoys pissing people off with his actions. He's not out to save mother earth. He's a ***gen hypocrite that has found an avenue to both get paid and try and get back at society for whatever childhood trauma his tard-like ways brought his way.

I do hope you guys get your riding areas back. But there needs to be repercussions for filing frivolous lawsuits that take away peoples freedoms. If this gets reversed there should be no reason Hammer shouldn't be thrown in the clink. You don't have to wear a towel on your head and strap a bomb to your chest to be a terrorist.
 
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