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FI Bikes, Over-fueling, and Thermostats

J&L, your on the right track for helping the motor out as far as temps go.

MX bikes run rich, i have firsthand seen an injected honda 450 run 4-9k elevation and 40-90* temps and for the most part runs high 10's to mid 11's for afr except on a long WOT pull down the road it might lean out to 13. this, in general, is richer then it needs to be to produce peak power/economy combo, but works good and provides excellent response for most conditions.

Here is what happens, when say, yamaha, or kawi, or whoever purchases and efi system to put on there bike, they have options, one that has mapping for a moderate temp range(normal mx bike conditions) for XX dollars, or one with a broader range(what we see snowbiking) for XXX, well, your marketing a bike to ride on dirt, not snow, so why spend the extra money on an ecu package that costs more to be mapped in a range your not designing for. THey just have very basic mapping in that range to keep the bike running, but performance may be far from ideal. this is the area many people are running into as we take the bikes out in below freezing temps, the mapping is very sub par from the stock bike.

if you wanted to help stabalize the fueling, and lean it out possibly you could place the air temp sensor near the motor in a no flow air zone to help lean it out a little, the only downfall of this is now you need an AFR gauge to check it and monitor changes and make sure it doesnt get super warm and lean the bike way out, and then cold snow hits it then your pig rich suddenly.
 
ok so lets look at the problem we have with snowbikes and what we would normally need to do as far as jetting goes with cold temps and see what makes the most common sence. Im not trying to start a battle with any of the fuel controllers but this is how i look at the problem.

first off i will ask you how your bike runs in 100degree summer heat. I would say your answer will be it rips like a mofo and i never ever have gas in my oil and i dont need a fuel controller to take more fuel out of the system to make it run this way. atleast this has been my experience with my rmz and buds kx450.

so secondly i will ask you if you were jetting a sled for grass drags in the summer 90 degree heat would you add more fuel or less fuel. Now set up the same sled for ice drags at the same location at -20. every jetting chart i have ever seen will indicate that you need more fuel at -20 than at 90 above.
So common sence would say that by no means should we be needing to remove fuel from our bikes to ride in cold weather if they run great in summer heat!

I ask what is the reason our bikes run so rich in the snow! I look at my research so far and can see that the engines are running cold........ our group of 4 bikes 08 rmz450 09 kx450 12 kx450 and 13 sxf450 all have thermostats and trail tech temp gauges installed. few weeks ago with radiators completely taped off and in deep powder they would not read over 100degrees. half way through the day they would hardly idle. you coud just see the black smoke come out the pipe by this time. so much extra fuel and water condesation in oil is going to kill alot of dirtbikes.

in a nutshell Im going to say the first and foremost get your engine temps up alot. these bikes should boil over at between 220-230 and should really run at 200 degrees no problem for best life.
add thermostats, block off radiators and keep the snow off the engine cases any way possible if you dont want your engine it that blown motor thread!!
I have made these plastic shrouds for the kx and think this will be a easy solution to alot of over fueling problems caused by low water temps.


It is mainly a temp issue only when in Handel bar dip snow the motor is so packed with snow I think it never gets near proper running temp is the main issue. Thats just what i have come up with so far, and that is why I have blocked off my radiator fins to block them from packing up with snow and it seems to help but I still need to get it out on another day of that deep snow again to see if it is working 100%.
 
snow pruff

got to agree with the comments of keeping the cold snow off the motor.

wr450 carbed
yzf450 efi

we blocked radiators
put on thermostat
All that helped, cold tank deep fluff, no water in oil, but never running more than about 100-120 degrees.

first ride out with plastic skid pans and no snow flowing around the lower engine cases, same nasty conditons , radiators melting out all day and hot to the touch.
I like this situation better than covering the radiators because if you do get into tough slow going were you might run the engine temps up, you have the radiator cooling capacity to keep temps down.

Last ride somewhat settled snow and 30 degrees, I pulled the left side egine cover and still ran 160 plus engine temps when I scanned with my temp gun. With the plastic wrap around skid pan its odd to see, but when I stop, water just poors out of the bottom of the skid pan.
 
You guys seem to be the right group to ask about this. This is my first season on a Mountain Horse, I am currently riding a 07 YZ 450f. I am considering buying a 2011 KX 450f, that is fuel injected. What new concerns am I going to have? Do you think it is worth the upgrade? So far the YZ has been running great, although I have no idea what the temps are. Please add any thoughts. Thanks
 
I love my 2011 KX450 and I came off a 2008 WR450. I would say the only drawback vs 2012/2013 is the inability to program my maps like they can. The 2012/2013 bikes allow you to change terrain maps with a SD-like chip... so you can move between fuel and timing changes from soft terrain, hard terrain, stock, and custom maps. You want to move to soft terrain (sand setting) for the winter and it advances the timing and removes 5% of the fuel.... it's a real big difference and really wakes the bike up. The 2011 has these settings but you have to use a Kawasaki controller to make the changes (which costs around $550). My local dealer has one and I just pay them to make the change for me.

I've ridden both the 2012 and 2013 KX450's and the 2011 just seems to have more bottom and mid-range grunt. I think the cam and a few other fueling changes were made in 2012/2013, but I'm not 100% sure. The 2012/2013 bike is narrower and does better in the corners on dirt, but that's not a concern to me. I actually prefer the bigger physical bike on the 2011.
 
REFRESH

BUMP THIS SO THE NEW GUYS CAN GET SOME INFO.
I HAVE BEEN BUSY MAKING ENGINE SHROUD KITS,INTAKE KITS AND CARTS TO MOVE OUR SNOWBIKES. HAVE A FEW ITEMS LISTED ON MY EBAY STORE JUST SEARCH SNOWBIKES!

WILL START A POST SOON WITH FULL LIST OF THINGS NEEDED TO DO GREAT RUNNING SNOWBIKE WITH PARTS AND PRICES.
 
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