Engine damage when stinger fails on stock pipe

[nuttyn01]

Alot of variables invlolved. I couldnt run 12.5 pilots at 6000' on my sled without 1/2 choke. I ended up with 17.5 pilots. Things like charge tube size, type of reed petal, fuel pressure, where you are pulling signals, type of pipe, etc. all play into the tune of the sled. I personally have a cpi pipe. I wouldnt be afraid to try 17.5 pilots if it feels lean.

What are the symptoms or how do you know its leaking? What does a leaking base gasket do? We are trying to figure why are tuning is so different from others. My brothers turbo xp won't idle and he has 15 pilots and its way lean. The A/F is pegged to the right and will start to come down if we pull the choke on slightly. The bottom end is so lean that its got run-on really bad and you have to pull the choke to get it to come down. We are going to try 17.5 pilots but wondering why other are running 12.5 and 10 and we are at 17. Maybe a leaky base gasket? It runs great 1/4 to WOT, just won't idle and lean until 1/4 throttle. Thinking of maybe air leak somewhere, or maybe its the CPI pipe idles different, or the RK tek pistons he has in it?

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

When I got my cylinder back from repairs I installed it and fired it up and ran it for a few minutes.Started to leak from the front on the mag side.This is with a stock doo 5 thou gasket. So I pulled it apart and checked with a metal flat edge and found no problems.
Installed a new 5 thou gasket and filled with antifreeze...now it leaks without starting it.
This past weekend I installed 2 more gaskets and spent 2 days trying to get the damn thing to stop leaking...no luck.
I havent got a freaking clue why it is doing this.
I even drilled out my dowel holes just in case they were bottoming out but no luck.
I have ordered 2 more gaskets,a 5 thou and a 7 thou.Gonna try some gasket maker under and on top of the 5 thou and see if that works.
Something is obviuosly out of whack....but I dont know what.
All I know is that I never had this problem b4 I sent my cylinder away and now it exists. I talked to the repair shop and nothing they do in the replating process should warp my cylinder. The only thing I was not happy with was that the gasket surfaces were not polished...that surprised me.

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

Jetting from idle to mid range is very tricky with these things. I started with 17.5,then 15 and have yet to try the 12.5. I have the same problem as you with all the pilot jets so far....you cant pin the throttle from idle without the sled stalling and loading with fuel. Get a rolling start and it is fine. I am running a rave delete kit and some guys are saying that the rave valves are the solution to this problem as long as you dont blow the bellows.
The other problem is that when you come off of full throttle to idle the sled will stall.

 

[Bendy]

That sucks!

My 04 with the exhaust valve delete just felt like it had dropped a cylinder when I was taking it easy. Yes, it was over-fueling, and you did have to baby the throttle to make boost. With the exhaust valves in, it rides just like a normal sled with a tonne of ski lifting power. Exhaust valves are a must in my opinion.

 

[badass1000]

highvoltagesledhead
Are you sure it is not leaking from somewhere else and puddling up on the base gasket? I have had that happen before. once it was leaking from the back of the head and puddling up on the base gasket. Another time it was the little set screws in the side of the cylinder by the rave valves. Almost have to use loctite or something else to get those set screws to seal. The last time I put my cylinders on I thought the base gasket was leaking. even put a new base gasket in and it was still leaking. turned out the set screws were leaking. it leaks such a small amount you can't see it runing down the cylinder and next thing you know the base gasket has coolant on it or is wet.

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I did think of that Badass, but I actually sat and watched the gasket leak. Boy that was boring. When I took the cylinder off last weekend I could see where the gasket was soaked thru at the leak and if it leaks just sitting there it will only get worse once I run it. All I know is it is getting some loctite 515 gasket maker and a new 5 thou gasket this weekend and it is going to get ridden.....we have so much freakin snow I just cant take it anymore.

 

[brycter]

get her running and let us know how she works> oh and get some vids

 

[nuttyn01]

leaky Gasket

One other thing to consider Highvoltage...make sure the bolt threads are nice and clean and use blue locktite to help lubricate the threads. If you have dirty corroded threads you can get torque without actually applying pressure to the surfaces if that makes sense. Also double check torque specs...38-40 ft-lb on the cylinders and 21 ft-lbs on the head...good luck

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I clean my threads everytime I take them out and I dont use loctite but I do use never cease. Been using this method for years and never had a problem until now.....thats why it is so baffling. I also put the same bolts back in the same holes. Do you know where I can get a pic of the torque sequence, just to make sure I am dong it right. The other thing I didnt mention is that my cylinder wobbles when it is put on the case.....but the straight edge doesnt show any irregularities that you can see with your eyes.

 

[nuttyn01]

wobble

it doesnt take much...who did u have re-nic your cylinders? 1 gasket i could see but 3 gaskets and same problem.....something is keeping the surfaces from contacting properly

 

[nuttyn01]

torque sequence

sequence

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

Re-nic the cylinders due to the damage caused from the pics in this thread.

 

[utah_sledder]

could be sand in the cylinder locator holes. Flip the cylinder over and make sure the holes are clean. I had this happen on an '07 800r cylinder that millennium did.

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

I actually drilled out those hole to make them deeper....it did help a little but it still wobbles.
Anyways,got it down to a slow dribble so today I ride.Break in today and pinner tomorrow.

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

Ok,sled is running again. Testing and breakin has been done at 2500 ft so results are not for elevation.Been running with the boost turned all the way down just to break it in but looks good.Current jetting is 300 mains,15 pilots out half a turn,07 needles in middle position. Neils pipe is a tight fit and excellent craftmanship.Straight C111 for first tank of break in. Gonna install AFR gauge and head to the hills for April 1 with some other turbos. Should have some really good results after that trip,but so far,Neils pipe seems to have cleaned up my bottom end quite a bit......and I am still running rave block offs.

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

Well we had 4 great days of riding in the Clearwater area. One thing I know for sure is that you cant always trust your gauges. I installed an AEM AFR gauge for the trip to dial in my sled,but until you get close to the correct jetting,the gauge will give you false readings,i.e. extremely rich mixtures will read as lean and you would think that you must add fuel.
I started with 300 mains and needles in the second notch with 15 pilots out .5 turn. Sled ran pretty good but wasnt building boost,egts flashing all day,charge tube hot,cluthces hot and afr off the chart. Would get a flutter coming thru mid range and at full throttle leading to knock sensor which would eventually go away and come back.......oooops gotta go,will finish later.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

i should make up a post on that and sticky it in every turbo section... i found out that the hard way as well.. afr readings are bang on but the sled cant get out of its own way because its rich missfiring.

good luck getting it dialed in..

 

[hivoltagesledhead]

RICH MISFIRING....thats is it exactly !!!! You think you are lean but it is still way to rich. long story short, i went from the 300 mains down to 280 then down to 260 then 250 and you guessed it....still too rich. Currently running 250 with 12.5 pilots out 1.25 turns and needles in second notch and power jets open .75 turns at 6500ft.. runs ok but still wont build more than 6-8 lbs boost.Drops way off after 7000 ft and gets rich again and the flutter returns as does the knock sensor.This is a rich code not a lean code. also discovered that the sled runs best with the egts at 1300+ degrees....thats right...even been as high as 1450 !!!! No codes,plugs look great and still rich....afr still off the chart telling me I am too LEAN....no way this is true.
So,I have been told that afr's will see extremely rich conditions as being lean UNTIL you get closer to the proper jetting and then it starts to work properly. Going to go down to 230 mains and see what happens. Most of my riding is done between 3000 and 7000 ft so that should be very close.
Also,my sled is clutched to run 10 or more lbs so until I can build that boost I have been running 21.5 grams on clicker 6 instead of 2 or 3. i have also been doing compression tests to ensure that I am not runnnig lean and burning down...consistently 140 lbs in both cylinders. All is well....just need to jet down and get this beast growlin.
Oh yeah,still have my rave block offs as well and I didnt seem to have any problems in the trees. We made some vid but it is pretty boring stuff as we were trying to get dialed in.
Also wanted to mention that i was very impressed with the 2011 bone stock M8 cat that was riding with us....that freakin machine just keeps on tractoring up them hills...unbelievable.
Cant wait to get to Chatter Creek.

 

[nuttyn01]

Sounds way to lean to me. Don't forget about the handy choke lever. Hold your throttle where you think it may be rich/lean and slightly pull the choke lever up...if your lean it will take off...if your rich it will fall on its face.

good luck

 

[Bendy]

Way too lean!

Those jets sound REALLY small, even for 10,000 ft. Can't believe those pistons aren't puddles. I run 360's @ 6500 ft. w/ my Aero 66 and it runs great.