Electric turbos super charger what do you think? IT COULD WORK...... maybe?

[brent9k]

thanks everyone for keeping this tread clean, geting pist dont help no one


I have read all the posts, alot of people say no but im not realy understanding WHY. I see what they are saying, i understand the works but i dont understand the MATH of it.

lets say my sled suckes in 400cc of air/fuel into the bottom end before the reeds close.

If i COULD make that 410cc (4%) would i see a gain?


In one of my early posts i said i was looking for ON/OFF BOOST short 5-15 second is fine

Im confadent i can make an elctrical system that can do this. My real problem is dose any one make an electric 12v blower that makes 230cfm+ at .5-2 pis

 

[Interceptor]

Just a thought - if you are only looking for a pound or two boost, and knowing how heat negatively affects the already poor efficiency of our belt drive system... maybe you would get more power to the ground by using that 250CFM to keep your clutches icy cold and fresh air under the hood?

 

[mattymac]

Just a thought - if you are only looking for a pound or two boost, and knowing how heat negatively affects the already poor efficiency of our belt drive system... maybe you would get more power to the ground by using that 250CFM to keep your clutches icy cold and fresh air under the hood?

actually I believe that the CVT clutches are 80% or so efficient, its the power it takes to spin the track around the skid that takes up alot of HP, tons of friction.

Brent, your statement about getting more air into the intake/crankcase argument on a two stroke isnt all there, there has to be the balance of air which is based on pipe design, volume, length, and backpressure, theres a wave that travels up and down the pipe which makes them work on a two stroke, the unequal balance of forcing air in one side without resistance (equal backpressure) in the pipe is what makes it not work. There was a guy on here that did make a supercharger work on a two stroke but it had more gadgets and valves and actuators on it and in the pipe that it wasnt economical or practical.

 

[06MXZXRenegade800]

Just doing some quick calcs... If you were to say that under 100% VE the engine draws 400cc, you need about another 25cc to gain 1psi of boost. keep in mind, once again you have to keep from blowing that out the pipe!

1psi wouldnt make it a wild sled at all, but definately better than something naturally aspirated.

Im currently running just 5psi (waiting for low comp domes, i cant afford any more $300 tanks of fuel) and at that point it really starts to wake up. I like having a couple pounds of boost in the midrange, it basically runs like my old twin crankshop setup did @ almost wot!

@ 5psi i am technically pushing 500cc into the engine, each stroke, ontop of what blows out the pipe. Thats a decent ammount of air!

Once again, back to the power issue. A regular sled battery is rated around 300cca/20ah. In theory it should be able to run a fan with a 60amp draw for a couple of minutes at most before its flat dead. Not the greatest plan, but you dont want a 50lb battery or else you wont gain anything from the added HP! I suppose it should also be rigged up so that the battery will only charge when the fan is off, to keep from drawing all of the power away from everything else when the fan is on. Only problem would be the recharge time, it would probably be a loonnnng time between blasts of boost!

 

[Boyko]

Someone told me awhile back that the optimum pressure in a naturally aspirated two stroke pipe is 6 pounds. Does anyone know how much pressure builds up in a Turbo two stroke pipe? Is it expodential with boost at RPM?

Your pipe pressure should be about 30% to 40% over boost on a 2-smoke. So @ 10psi boost your pipe will be 13 -14 psi. The less the better but it gets to a point were you can be running to big of a turbine housing and you end up with more lag. From a dead stop if you pin it you pipe pressure will come up the 30% to 40% before you make any boost (the exhaust builds pressure to spool the turbo) I modded a few of my turbine housing and dropped my pipe pressure by 25% of what it was over boost, feels like I have the same power with 15% less boost.

If your exhaust pressure get over +50% of your boost you could have a detonation problem and you will not be able to get your egt down.

4-stroke can run not bad with 200% over with the right cam but your loosing power, the less the better.

6psi in the pipe naturally aspirated is wrong.

 

[Trinity Taz]

Ok guys, Im the guy at the expo that was offering the kit (ELECTROBOOST)and I think that the idea needs a little clarification:

Trust me, the idea does work very well as I have proven without a doubt this winter, it is just the application technique that makes the difference.

A few tips if you are doing the install yourself:
- Use a supercharger, not a duct fan, duct fans will restrict your top end if they do not flow enough CFM's.
- You have to run a battery that can handle the amperage draw, otherwise you are drawing direct electrical power from the engine at an efficiency loss of about 10%, converting it to rotational energy at a loss of about 15%, and then asking it to give you more power... not gonna work.
- You must store up the power over time in the battery and then release the power in the form of boost in short bursts. Then and only then will the electric supercharger work. I use it like I would nitrous, only all day long.
- If it is done properly, the entire system weighs only 5 lbs, with a 15% gain, or up to 30% if two of the units are used, but then you will need a larger battery and that weighs considerably more.
- The charge draw from the engine must be restricted to a minimum to avoid both scavenging during boost and wiring overload which your dealer will love, as wiring harnesses are a tad bit spendy to install.

As of this writing, I am preparing to begin testing a butterfly exhaust restriction solenoid valve on a custom can design to further enhance the horsepower gains...stay tuned as I will report on the subject soon.

 

[06MXZXRenegade800]

Sorry, just doing some more calcs...

Looks like 290CFM is what it will take to put a 800cc motor @ 5psi. Once again, take into account what goes out the pipe.

Again, 290cfm isnt unreasonable from a small fan. But their are alot of other obstacles to deal with!

 

[Boyko]

Ok guys, Im the guy at the expo that was offering the kit (ELECTROBOOST)and I think that the idea needs a little clarification:

Trust me, the idea does work very well as I have proven without a doubt this winter, it is just the application technique that makes the difference.

A few tips if you are doing the install yourself:
- Use a supercharger, not a duct fan, duct fans will restrict your top end if they do not flow enough CFM's.
- You have to run a battery that can handle the amperage draw, otherwise you are drawing direct electrical power from the engine at an efficiency loss of about 10%, converting it to rotational energy at a loss of about 15%, and then asking it to give you more power... not gonna work.
- You must store up the power over time in the battery and then release the power in the form of boost in short bursts. Then and only then will the electric supercharger work. I use it like I would nitrous, only all day long.
- If it is done properly, the entire system weighs only 5 lbs, with a 15% gain, or up to 30% if two of the units are used, but then you will need a larger battery and that weighs considerably more.
- The charge draw from the engine must be restricted to a minimum to avoid both scavenging during boost and wiring overload which your dealer will love, as wiring harnesses are a tad bit spendy to install.

As of this writing, I am preparing to begin testing a butterfly exhaust restriction solenoid valve on a custom can design to further enhance the horsepower gains...stay tuned as I will report on the subject soon.

So your saying this charger will make 2 pounds of boost

(14.7 X .15 = 2.025)
Air pressure @ sea level x Increased HP = boost.

So what rpm is this at?

I do not think you have to worry about your pipe you could probbaly just tune the outlet, But I do not know I started a suppercharger 2-stroke project a while ago and gave up on it when I starded weighing parts.

Sound kind of neet, I would like to see one. Pics?

 

[06MXZXRenegade800]

Sure he could tune a pipe/pipes to work. But then comes the problem of him only hitting boost a couple times during a ride. If he built a set of really tight pipes to work under boost, it wouldnt last 10min without boost, it would be wayy too tight for a n/a motor and he would be walking home...

As TT has mentioned above, some sort of variable exhaust restriction (butterfly valve in this case) is the way to go.

 

[Rob1334]

How many hp would and what speed would a guy need??? Also would you need one with a vacum, so you had turbo'd reverse??

That would be incredible, you could suck fuel for it right out of the sled tank...

What kind of clutching would you recommend for this setup, and also, would I have to rejet? Might also adjust the limiter straps down a notch, don't want the ole' RMK on top of me...

haha

 

[Boyko]

I hate to sound like a twit but there is no way that this type of charger is going to make 2 psi which is 15% more power. So that is why I mentioned tuning the exhaust. The picture of the one below with the Eaton root charger works. The 3 motors make just about 20hp to drive the blower and draws 700 amps. Rear wheel hp tested on this unit is just over 200. On a 1750cc 4-stroke engine would make 7 psi at redline. Like I said it takes a lot of power to make boost.

Lets say a E-ram type of charger flows 300 cfm fee flowing, as soon as you introduce a pressure ratio to it (boost) the cmf is going to fall on it’s face, it is a fan.

There is a lot of hype from guys marketing the E-Ram on the net, there are also consumers that have bought them and say that they did nothing. Look and see if you can find a consumer claming it works. They have been around since 97.

I am not saying you will not notice a difference in performance on a small engine but 2psi, it’s not going to happen. Brent maybe you should give it a try the guy that is selling the Eletroboost sounds optimistic.