I couldn't stand it and sold it. It is definately a heavy option for Polaris and you will feel the sled being nose heavy.
Electric start rotating mass?
- Thread starter 600 rmk 144
- Start date
This is funny.
I never heard anyone complain about the Axys being nose heavy due to ES regardless if they were NA or not.
Did the Matrix really gain 40 lbs?
It did gain about 5 and another 30 if you want E-Start. All in front by the motor. This plus the heat exchanges up front more shifts the weight forward.
Agree, could feel my 800axys was nose heavy with ES compared to my 850 pull start.
New matryx will be pull.
New matryx will be pull.
It’s a complex answer but the short answer is what the battery does and how much it helps with this phenomenon. If you’ve spent any time around Polaris forums, I’m sure you’ve heard our forum experts whine about TPS issues. TPS or potentiometers are very delicate and sensitive to electrical noise. I first learned about this with early Cummins diesels popping TPS’ for lunch in early 2000’s. After I dug deep into electrical theory trying to prevent customers from keeping 2-3 new OEM TPS’ in their glove box, I learned about electrical noise. What I was seeing back then was TPS voltage sensitivity feeding back erroneous voltage signals to control modules. Remembering those years, I did some of my own testing on a couple of non ES Polaris’ that I was chasing TPS issues with filters. Then tested my own sled that was ES. The results were astonishing. It was just easier to solve with ES. My buddies have all have ES ever since.
There is always electrical noise in any system, the question is, is the noise acceptable? And it’s a balance between too noisy and trying to design by filtering too much. Filtering too much can be a negative. The battery quickly and easily solves this.
Polaris has done a much better job in recent years with some subtle changes and contrary to the forum experts, they do read these forums and listen. ? I still think the battery is the true fix. IMO, Polaris should add it to all sleds. I’m sure the 3%er forum experts would disagree and lose their minds. You see it with every take off ES kit for sale that doesn’t include the clutch.
If you want to better understand the phenomenon, this link does a pretty good job of explaining it.
3 Ways to Reduce Power-Supply Noise
Get noise out of your power supply with a multi-prong approach. Filters, bypassing, and post-regulation all can help achieve that goal.www.electronicdesign.com
You could add a 12oz battery to act as the filter rather than the entire system and save some weight. Should start first pull since capacitor would charge without a pull also.
Doesn’t the 7s gauge have a battery of some sort even on the pull starts?
Yes but I believe it will charge from the magneto but does not contribute to supplying any power to the fuel system to help it start.
6
600 rmk 144
Member
I’m not worried about being nose heavy, I’ve never felt a weight difference between say a stock can and a 10-lb. lighter one for example. I was more concerned about rotating mass as regards throttle response.
10-20 lbs. of starter and battery can easily be compensated for with suspension adjustment.
Never thought the kaos matryx with e start was nose heavy. Guessing you could probably feel the e start weight if you rode them back to back but that doesn't make them nose heavy. It just makes one heavier than the other. Also guessing you are not going to feel some big difference in rotating weight. There is no one big thing anymore. It is a lot of little things to add up to something
I have no idea where people think that a heavier clutch means longer life, that is just not true...A heavier clutch is harder on the crank than a lighter clutch..the inertia of the clutch effects the crank!!! start and stop anything that is heavier and tell me it is easier on the part...If you want to discuss a crank damper, what entails that? a softer material to absorb the harmonics, a ring gear will not do that...I can promise you by taking the starter gear off you could feel the difference in acceleration!!! if you worried about pulling to recoil then leave it on..
I agree with you but where the loss of mass allows for harmonics then lightening could be a problem. Obviously this is not true for the motors were are talking about because the manufactures sell the exact same product with and without the ring gear. I definately would not like to try running one of these motors with no clutch on.
V
volcano buster
Well-known member
That is where my spare belt rides.
Most of us wish we were so good to make use of the reduced rotational mass, or rode in hip deep pow so often that it's truly helpful - is it real - sure was on race clutches. But, we're not racing.
Most of us are just not at that level, never will be, and don't ride in terrain or pow often enough to take advantage of the spin up. We don't have the talent, or don't have the throttle time in pow to get that skillset. Something else will hold us back, and lack of rider conditioning is generally the biggest. Nothing wrong with balancing. Cole/CVC's bat and tray are a huge weight reducer. E-start motor and ring is still there, and even if the weight bias is better, and it is, we can't tell. Just living in Realville, not Disney or Fakebook. Look in the f'ing mirror. For most of us over 25, gym and cardio will give us the biggest gains and longest days.
Most of us are just not at that level, never will be, and don't ride in terrain or pow often enough to take advantage of the spin up. We don't have the talent, or don't have the throttle time in pow to get that skillset. Something else will hold us back, and lack of rider conditioning is generally the biggest. Nothing wrong with balancing. Cole/CVC's bat and tray are a huge weight reducer. E-start motor and ring is still there, and even if the weight bias is better, and it is, we can't tell. Just living in Realville, not Disney or Fakebook. Look in the f'ing mirror. For most of us over 25, gym and cardio will give us the biggest gains and longest days.
Nice setup beauford
Please explain ??????
Do you think putting the lighter battery kit on, lessens the effect the es system has on electrical noise ??It’s a complex answer but the short answer is what the battery does and how much it helps with this phenomenon. If you’ve spent any time around Polaris forums, I’m sure you’ve heard our forum experts whine about TPS issues. TPS or potentiometers are very delicate and sensitive to electrical noise. I first learned about this with early Cummins diesels popping TPS’ for lunch in early 2000’s. After I dug deep into electrical theory trying to prevent customers from keeping 2-3 new OEM TPS’ in their glove box, I learned about electrical noise. What I was seeing back then was TPS voltage sensitivity feeding back erroneous voltage signals to control modules. Remembering those years, I did some of my own testing on a couple of non ES Polaris’ that I was chasing TPS issues with filters. Then tested my own sled that was ES. The results were astonishing. It was just easier to solve with ES. My buddies have all have ES ever since.
There is always electrical noise in any system, the question is, is the noise acceptable? And it’s a balance between too noisy and trying to design by filtering too much. Filtering too much can be a negative. The battery quickly and easily solves this.
Polaris has done a much better job in recent years with some subtle changes and contrary to the forum experts, they do read these forums and listen. ? I still think the battery is the true fix. IMO, Polaris should add it to all sleds. I’m sure the 3%er forum experts would disagree and lose their minds. You see it with every take off ES kit for sale that doesn’t include the clutch.
If you want to better understand the phenomenon, this link does a pretty good job of explaining it.
3 Ways to Reduce Power-Supply Noise
Get noise out of your power supply with a multi-prong approach. Filters, bypassing, and post-regulation all can help achieve that goal.
I’m guessing holding it wide open crossing a nasty creek.
Hit the far side and damage a QD belt.
Better than nose down in the water and rocks.
thats it ^^^
What are you like 70+ years old 350+ lbs and totally given up? Try to push harder, the rewards are very real.
