Electric cars? General Motors are IDIOTS deserve bankruptcy!

[Himark]

If anyone has seen "who killed the electric car" You will like this bit of inside information.




For all that have not looked at electric cars take a look at the links I posted below. They are IMO going to be the way of the future and are being stifled by big oil companies and politics. Anyway, on to why GM is already being a bone head.

The Chevy Volt was referred to as "the car that will save GM"...then when it FINALLY comes to market here is how it goes to the dealers that the public does NOT know.

1. GM only allowed this car to a few states to begin with.

2. Have you seen any real advertising for it yet???? (no)

3. Dealers that want to sell the car have to "opt in" to the program and if they do these are the requirements.
a.) they have to have a 100% trained tech (understandable)

b) they have to have 12,000$ worth of special tools (seems understandable but keep in mind gm prices tools like the govt prices hammers)

c) The dealer will have to install a lane drive up charging station and a dedicated stall out front with another. (cost ????)

d) excepted dealers in the program will recieve allocation of TWO units per year!

E) dealer will keep one car as a demo for six months. (hmmmmm we only get 2 car total)


OK so if you think these terms are exceptable think of this, we are sitting in a meeting last week to determine if our dealership should participate and these are the hurdles.

Cost 12,000 plus training plus structured charging stations. -vs- sales opportunity of 2 cars at best per year. MSRP of the chevy Volt 40,000 dealer cost 38000.00. As a financial decision this is a no brainer. Chevy has KILLED this car before its even started! Then they will go to the govt and cry...."we tried, but nobody wanted to buy". Im so sick of that.

As much as I hate to prop the foreign cars at least Nissan is going to put a full court press on marketing there new "Leaf" and I doubt they are going to fold to the politics like GM has. Check out the "leaf" it has a MSRP of 25000 compared to GMs 40.

 

[Dam Dave]

They will only be the way of the future if they force us all to buy one and why does everybody think they are clean............where does the electricity come from to charge them.........from that big coal plant just outside of every town……………………..we are going to have to build more power plants, Coal or Nuke, we can barely keep up with electric demand now……………….and wind is not the answer, don’t get me started on that

 

[winter brew]

I agree....the technology has a long way to go before it will be practical for much more than a neighborhood grocery getter.
How long do they run with the A/C on high, radio blaring, rolling the window up/down a few times, cell phone and GPS plugged in etc... ??

 

[Dam Dave]

I have yet to see one with the range to go from my house to town and back to my house, 120 mile round trip with nothing but trees and deer between here and there

 

[J.Jensen]

I have yet to see one with the range to go from my house to town and back to my house, 120 mile round trip with nothing but trees and deer between here and there

Tesla Motors. 300 mile range with the biggest batteries. The roadster is faster than a 911 turbo from 0-60.
The new saloon they're making look pretty sweet to, but it won't haul anything and the price isn't very nice...

 

[Dam Dave]

Tesla Motors. 300 mile range with the biggest batteries. The roadster is faster than a 911 turbo from 0-60.
The new saloon they're making look pretty sweet to, but it won't haul anything and the price isn't very nice...

hows it going to work going over the pass in 12 inchs of fresh snow every day

 

[Himark]

Tesla Motors. 300 mile range with the biggest batteries. The roadster is faster than a 911 turbo from 0-60.
The new saloon they're making look pretty sweet to, but it won't haul anything and the price isn't very nice...

yes last I remember one of there entry models starts at 125k. But just think once the main stream car builders get one to market how fast they will advance there affordable cars. Its here we will just have to embrace it. It will not surprise me in just a few years we are seeing them around our own neighborhoods.

 

[Mjunkie]

Like someone said, they ARE NOT cleaner, but the biggest drawback to them IMO is the batteries. Think about it, you have probably 5 to 10 batteries running your car, what happens when you get into an accident and battery acid is all over you, the car, and the pavement? Can you say HAZMAT? Cleaner? I don't think so!! Then think about after a few probably short years when you need to replace all 5 to 10 batteries. What do you think the cost will be? I have an idea, when Saturn came out with an electric car they told us (the dealership because I worked at one at the time) that the life span of the batteries was between 4 to 5 years (assuming they weren't used in very hot weather) and that the replacement cost was around $5,000. Electric cars IMO are NOT the way of the future unless some major advances in technology change things drastically.

 

[Himark]

Then think about after a few probably short years when you need to replace all 5 to 10 batteries. What do you think the cost will .

There lifespan is expected to be 10 years. And this is just the beginning, advancements will be fast I am sure. And yes there is a risk of exposure with anything...remember the Pinto? Its all about containing the risk.

 

[Mjunkie]

So how much will one be expected to pay every ten years (if they last that long) to replace the batteries? What about the old batteries?

 

[mmmod]

The europeans are using small diesel cars that get upwards of 70 mpg!!!
Heres one:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/234296/vw_golf_bluemotion_19_tdi.html

Why arent these cars in america?!?!?!
They're cheaper than electric cars, have more range than electric cars, faster than electric cars, and not to mention, CLEANER than electric cars.

 

[Dam Dave]

The europeans are using small diesel cars that get upwards of 70 mpg!!!
Heres one:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/234296/vw_golf_bluemotion_19_tdi.html

Why arent these cars in america?!?!?!
They're cheaper than electric cars, have more range than electric cars, faster than electric cars, and not to mention, CLEANER than electric cars.

because OB does not like the smell

 

[Mjunkie]

More questions: Can you just plug the electric car into any wall type outlet? I doubt it. Or do you have to have something special hooked up to your house? How much will that cost? How many of these special outlets are around your town? Or do you just have to make sure you get home every night? Depending on the answer and being pretty confident I know the answer based on experience and what you said about the gm car, when you look at the WHOLE picture, it doesn't sound like that good of choice in a car if you ask me. Not trying to start anything, just giving my honest opinion based on ALL the facts.

 

[Mjunkie]

Sorry, not a good choice YET for a car in my opinion.

Thought I should fix that.

 

[trigger fish]

In the posted Videos above both the Volt and the Leaf can be charged with standard 110 or 220 plugs. In the Leaf video it talks about using you Dryer plug to charge at 220.

The leaf Video also talks about charging stations that will be located around town where you would be able to get an 80% charge in about 30 min. The charge ($$$) for this 30 min is what I question.

I know I for dont like waiting for the 5-10 min for my fuel tank to fill. Now they want to to wait 30 min to go 80% of the 90 mile range? so every 72 miles (if on flat ground and no head winds) driving at no more than 50 MPH (this is a guess) you have to stop and recharge your batteries. So doing a little math it would take you about 10 hours to drive from SLC to Vegas. once they install all the charging stations along the way.

 

[Mafesto]

The problem with these "alternative cars" whether they be electric, hybrid or just a tiny sh_tbox, is that they cannot replace a what we are driving now.

It is not practicle to get rid of the vehicle we have, so we would have to "add" another vehicle.
Well you cannot save enough on fuel to offset the expense of an extra vehicle.

I would much prefer the research money invested into turbo diesel technology for real vehicles instead of these electric pretend vehicles.

 

[ruffryder]

The problem with these "alternative cars" whether they be electric, hybrid or just a tiny sh_tbox, is that they cannot replace a what we are driving now.

It is not practicle to get rid of the vehicle we have, so we would have to "add" another vehicle.
Well you cannot save enough on fuel to offset the expense of an extra vehicle.

? Why not? Are you saying that because a current electric vehicle is not optimal for your situation that it won't be optimal for anyone else? Does everyone everywhere live like you?

I would much prefer the research money invested into turbo diesel technology for real vehicles instead of these electric pretend vehicles.

From the research I have seen, gasoline vehicles have a better ability to offer high efficiency and low emissions compared to diesel motors. The current DI turbo vehicles from Ford are the start.

Series hybrids with an increased ability to capture a much larger percentage of braking energy will be a huge increase in efficiency of a transportation vehicle.

 

[ruffryder]

In the posted Videos above both the Volt and the Leaf can be charged with standard 110 or 220 plugs. In the Leaf video it talks about using you Dryer plug to charge at 220.

The leaf Video also talks about charging stations that will be located around town where you would be able to get an 80% charge in about 30 min. The charge ($$$) for this 30 min is what I question.

Yah, some of the chargers can take quite a bit. Though, maybe a market will open up at resteraunts. Go in for some food, and charge your vehicle at the same time. Or grocery shopping, or at the mall. Tons of places that people go that there are at one location for a while. Just some thoughts. Also, I think there were some Class 3 charge devices that operated at higher voltage that would be able to charge an electric vehicle pretty quickly. While this would add extra cost, it will be interesting to see how this develops.

I know I for dont like waiting for the 5-10 min for my fuel tank to fill. Now they want to to wait 30 min to go 80% of the 90 mile range? so every 72 miles (if on flat ground and no head winds) driving at no more than 50 MPH (this is a guess) you have to stop and recharge your batteries. So doing a little math it would take you about 10 hours to drive from SLC to Vegas. once they install all the charging stations along the way.

It would take you longer to drive a tractor there too, but both are not meant for that. Why are people taking a vehicle that is to be used for a specific purpose (commuting) and trying to apply it to something it was not designed to do (driving across the country)?

 

[ruffryder]

They're cheaper than electric cars, have more range than electric cars, faster than electric cars, and not to mention, CLEANER than electric cars.

Cheaper yes, faster well sure, but cleaner? What is this based on?

 

[ruffryder]

They will only be the way of the future if they force us all to buy one and why does everybody think they are clean............where does the electricity come from to charge them.........from that big coal plant just outside of every town……………………..we are going to have to build more power plants, Coal or Nuke, we can barely keep up with electric demand now……………….and wind is not the answer, don’t get me started on that

If you are comparing gasoline to coal, coal is much cleaner... There are a lot of factors in this, one being the efficiency duty cycle (amount of time the engine is running at high efficiency) and the amount of emissions equipment associated with each generation technology.

I think this subject requires more then just a guess...