Electric cars are as much a scam as Global Warming

[V-Man]

Here's an interesting perspective in the cost of electric vehicles and how they simply don't make sense. We've got oil, lets just freaking use it. Internal combustion engines get more efficient and cleaner every year. Lets not give up on them:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Electric-cars-will-need-lots-cnnm-14067576.html

 

[ruffryder]

When electric utilities figure out how to utilize parked electric vehicles in an efficient manor the total cost of the vehicles will decrease further still.....

FYI, I didn't see a comparison of new gas vehicle to new electric vehicle cost. Only the cost of adding new technology to the gas vehicle. Seems a little one sided...

 

[V-Man]

"BCG estimates that a hybrid car today costs about $7,000 more to produce than a similar non-hybrid, but that that cost will come down to about $4,000 by 2020."

 

[bigfoot]

When electric utilities figure out how to utilize parked electric vehicles in an efficient manor the total cost of the vehicles will decrease further still.....

FYI, I didn't see a comparison of new gas vehicle to new electric vehicle cost. Only the cost of adding new technology to the gas vehicle. Seems a little one sided...

And they will be parked a lot cause you would be lucky to have a 50 mile range....

by utilize you mean recharge right?

 

[ruffryder]

And they will be parked a lot cause you would be lucky to have a 50 mile range....

by utilize you mean recharge right?

How far did you drive today? I drive mostly 23 miles total each way to work everyday. There are specific demographics that electric vehicles are perfect for... Would it be many peoples only car? No, but it will be a replacement for the commuter that many people currently use. There are also demographics that would not make sense, like people that work out of their trucks, or people that tow....

When I get one or build one, will I tow my sled in the mountains with it? Hell no, but I will use it to go to work and maybe get some milk at the local store..

Utilize has many means.. cycling power at very fast rates to minimize system spin (generators running but not producing power), peak shaving during high energy intensive times. As a dg resource for reduced operating distribution conditions. Lots of possibilities and I see lots of very high tech jobs in it too....

 

[Beels]

Not to mention the majority of power generated in North America is by coal.

Talk about chasing your tail.

 

[SAWYER]

at leas they will be safer with a sled deck than a half ton is

 

[ruffryder]

Not to mention the majority of power generated in North America is by coal.

Talk about chasing your tail.

Using the energy from coal for transportation is better then using gasoline. It is cleaner due to the higher efficiency of electric generation and the more robust emissions control system on a per unit of energy basis. Just an FYI... It seems contrary to what most would think, but that is the way the numbers work out.

 

[V-Man]

The bottome line is it just doesn't make sense $ wise. It's a greenie pipe dream and the reality is it isn't necessary. People who drive them now do so to make a statement. They are not saving any money. Now, I do agree the Tesla is cool, it just costs a fortune.

When we run out of oil and natural gas then sure, it'll be the next best thing and we'll have to pay the price for it. Of course you and I will be dead by then. Hopefully nuclear power will be back in swing to handle the burdon electric cars will put on the grid.

Sure it can create jobs etc, but financially it makes no sense. Why abandon what works and the massive infrastructure we have to support gas. Create jobs in an industry that makes sense and serves society in a productive way. These "feel good" initiatives are wearing me thin.

 

[bigfoot]

How far did you drive today? I drive mostly 23 miles total each way to work everyday. There are specific demographics that electric vehicles are perfect for... Would it be many peoples only car? No, but it will be a replacement for the commuter that many people currently use. There are also demographics that would not make sense, like people that work out of their trucks, or people that tow....

When I get one or build one, will I tow my sled in the mountains with it? Hell no, but I will use it to go to work and maybe get some milk at the local store..

Utilize has many means.. cycling power at very fast rates to minimize system spin (generators running but not producing power), peak shaving during high energy intensive times. As a dg resource for reduced operating distribution conditions. Lots of possibilities and I see lots of very high tech jobs in it too....

I drove about 350 miles today. You must have a lot more disposable income than most of us to spend $25,000 or so on a car to get milk. If I were to buy a commuter I wouldn't spend more than a couple thousand. That fits my "demographic" better

 

[V-Man]

The other important take away from that article is the idea that taxpayers should be funding these initiatives. WRONG!! If electric cars are so necessary, and make sense to build financially, then private industry and investors will be all over it like stink on a pig. It is funny how the tax payers get put on the hook to fund things no one in their right mind would invest a cent in. I've never understood that logic.

 

[bigfoot]

The other important take away from that article is the idea that taxpayers should be funding these initiatives. WRONG!! If electric cars are so necessary, and make sense to build financially, then private industry and investors will be all over it like stink on a pig. It is funny how the tax payers get put on the hook to fund things no one in their right mind would invest a cent in. I've never understood that logic.

exactly

 

[pernikm]

I drove 100 mi today with my 95 park avenue getting 27 mi / gallon with 4 people in my car pool. I paid 2500 for the car. That means 108 passenger miles per gallon. If I buy a beer can for $25000 to get 50 mpg, I will get kicked out of the car pool. Hands down the park avenue wins...for the environment and my pocket book. There are way better methods of conservation than hybrids.

Karl

 

[0007]

The part that get's left out most of the time is where after the battery's croak, you throw 2000lbs of toxic chemical's or maybe the whole car in the dump
In the case of the Tesla, the battery is integral and cannot be replaced

I do think they will get it figured out but there need's to be a breakthrough in battery technology, not only in size and weight but also the ultra nasty crap they need to put in them that end's up in the dump

 

[swampwater]

"Plug-in vehicles of various types - plug-in only, plug-in hybrids and range-extended plug-in vehicles - present greater cost challenges because of they need expensive batteries. BCG estimates that by 2020, when battery costs will have come down, a battery for an electric car with an 80 mile range will still cost about $14,000."

!4,000 just for replacement batteries and how often will they need to be replaced, yearly, bi-yearly or every 5 years. What a joke! Hybrids are only for people who want their egos stroked or don't realize chevy's new small gas vehicle gets almost as good mileage as the hybrids and that they do nothing to effect the lie of global warming. Swampy

 

[Beels]

Using the energy from coal for transportation is better then using gasoline. It is cleaner due to the higher efficiency of electric generation and the more robust emissions control system on a per unit of energy basis. Just an FYI... It seems contrary to what most would think, but that is the way the numbers work out.

That may be true, but let's take this a little further. Some areas in the southwest have experienced brown outs from high electrical loads during extreme heat from a/c units running on top of the normal load. Let's 25% of the people on the road ditch their petroleum powered vehicles in favor of electric. How's the current electrical grid going to handle this?

 

[Ollie]

California can't produce enough electricity to maintain what they use now.
They have rolling black outs all the time in the summer.
Now add a few million electric cars and see what happens.

Oh yea, Palosi has pledged to now renew any contracts from coal burning plants in california when they run out in 2010. Wonder what will happen then. Oh yea, all our electric bills will go up to offset the increased wear and tare on our power plants that will have to go to 100% production to give california the energy they need. Oh, and you can bet they won't want to pay any more than us.

Wonder how far into bankrupcy this country will go before people wake up?

 

[Wade]

OK, I'll take the loser's position on this one. From an engineering point of view, electric cars are very cool. For most of us, it has nothing to do with the environment. They can out accelerate anything on the road. They are quite. And, there just plain different. Plus, for the tesla it cost like $3.25 to fill it up, for a 250 mile trip (tesla). It could save you several thousand dollars a year in gas bills.

The good thing about electric cars is that if worst comes to worse, we don't have to walk. It might be possible to drive, without gasoline.

As for brownouts, the Ruffy's eluding to the power potential of all those batteries sitting out there. So, if you have tens of millions of batteries hooked up in the parking lots, and suddenly, you get a brown out. Someone came up with this idea to suck some of the power back out of the batteries, and put it back on the grid. Think of it as distributed load balancing.

As for batteries. Batteries are made of metals of some type. Lead being a principle one. Yep, it's bad for the environment, no doubt. Most can be recycled, but it's not good for the health of the workers that do it. Also, some of the cooler batteries, have materials, which are in short supply, and some have nasty metals in them. (cadmium for example) Batteries will also go bad, and need to be replaced. But, as far as I know, there's no such thing as a car where the batteries can't be replaced. Even tesla was showing off their new battery pack the other day. Big plastic box, that sits behind the seat. It's a $30,000 box though. Your average car will cost a lot less.

As for the pollution. You should be able to produce power with less pollution, than what a average car produces. But, just like ethanol did to corn supplies, cars will quickly tax the electrical grid, and power prices will sore. So, expect a huge power infrastructure build up. Nancy Pelosi, won't say shet when her voters are sitting in the dark.

Oh, and don't overlook the political aspect of electric cars. The government will use it to control you. And, instead of getting oil from lots of different places, you'll be getting it from regulated facilities. Hard to imagine how it could play out for personal freedoms over many decades. The greenies will figure out a way to profit off it for sure.

Personally, I'd love to build a electric car for myself. And, I aint no greenie.

 

[V-Man]

Personally, I'd love to build a electric car for myself. And, I aint no greenie.

Oh, I'd take a Tesla any day. That car is freaking awesome, and I'm far froma greenie too. But Tesla owners are in a different class than 99.99% of us. That is a lot of money for a car. It kicks azz but certainly doesn't mean it makes financial sense.

That's what I'm talking about here. The govornment using our $$ to fund a expensive vehicle for people that can't afford them, all for the "good" cause of reduction CO2 emmissions. This isn't any different than paying off principle for people that can't afford the houses they bought. I don't like it one bit.

 

[Wade]

Oh, I'd take a Tesla any day. That car is freaking awesome, and I'm far froma greenie too. But Tesla owners are in a different class than 99.99% of us. That is a lot of money for a car. It kicks azz but certainly doesn't mean it makes financial sense.

That's what I'm talking about here. The govornment using our $$ to fund a expensive vehicle for people that can't afford them, all for the "good" cause of reduction CO2 emmissions. This isn't any different than paying off principle for people that can't afford the houses they bought. I don't like it one bit.

Yha, but if the Big Brother is going to spend money, I'd rather see it on this kind of technology, rather than free money hand outs to Low/No Income people. That doesn't do anything but prop up the alcohol, P0rn, drugs, lottery, and cigarette industry.

I at least think batteries are a lot better than the stupid hydrogen economy. And, if your burning coal, coal probably produces more carbon dioxide, per mile driven, than gas. Or, at least even. No scrubbers that soak up carbon dioxide, that I've ever heard of. Except the bio alga fuel project.