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Editorial Response to the B.C. Snowmobile Ban

I just want to share with you the editorial in my local paper: The Prince George Citizen dated May 5, 2009

SNOWMOBILE BAN UNDULY DRASTIC, NOT NECESSARY

Snowmobilers who seek nirvana in B.C.'s mountainous terrain are tempting fate when they venture into dangerous territory. But they should not be forbidden to do so. The owner of B.C.'s largest helicopter skiing company wants snowmobilers banned from B.C.'s mountains because of what he calls "an epidemic" of avalanche deaths.

Mike Wiegele says the fact 19 snowmobilers were killed in avalanches in B.C. this winter should be a wake-up call to the provincial government to ban snowmobiles from the backcountry.

This would be an unduly drastic and unnecessary step.

Certainly the best way to prevent avalanche deaths in to prevent people from venturing into the mountains. It is also true that more deaths involve snowmobilers than any other group. However, banning them from the mountains would deny snowmobilers one of the great thrills of their hobby - human and machine in B.C.'s mountainous splendour.

Rather than a ban, what's needed is beter education in the snowmobiling community - knowing when it's safe and not safe to venture into the high country.

The Canadian Avalanche Association issues weekly advisories throughout the winter on avalanche risks around B.C. A membership in a group such as the Prince George Snowmobile Club can also be valuable.

Experienced, responsible sledders also know there are great places to go when snow conditions in the mountains are too dangerous.

In the Prince George area this winter there were avalanche fatalities near Chetwynd and McBride that involved snowmobilers from Alberta, raising the possibility those groups threw caution to the wind rather than scuttle a long-planned weekend of sledding in B.C. The onus is on all backcountry users to know the terrain and its conditions.

As with and decision in life, discretion is the better part of valour.

Instead of a ban, the province should introduce a law that makes snowmobilers or skiers lost in off-limits areas responsible for rescue costs.

The possibility of injury or death hasn't been much of a deterrent for many, but perhaps they might think twice about a risky adventure if a hefty monetary cost is attached.


 
If something good can come out of Mike Wiegele's comments and the NREPA, maybe it's that the NORTH AMERICAN snowmobile community gets tighter and more organized...and more active in the issues.
 
We can only hope that SOMETHING good comes out of all this BS.
I really can't see either one going through, especially the BC issue, that's just some citzen spouting off at the mouth....I wouldn't be worried about it. NREPA on the otherhand is knocking on our backdoors and I have a feeling if it fails it won't be the last time we see it.
People need to wake up around here and realize that no matter what you may think your right to ride is being threatened. I still can't get over the fact that lots of people have lost riding areas but still aren't envolved.
 
As I was driving through BC today and listening to Mr. Wiegele's comments i couldn't help but wonder what his true motives are. He operates a business that competes for the same lands as the snowmobilers. I'm sure he would love to have all the epic snow for himself and his skiers so he chooses to attack the competition using some very unfortunate deaths caused by avalanche.

I'm sure (i know) i could dig up some video of heli skiers causing avalanches in the last five years. What is the difference ? Will Mr. Wiegele be shutting down his business and giving up his fun because some educated/un-educated heli skier kills himself in a avalanche ?

Further more there was a heli crash that sadly killed 18 people this year in Canada (This is only one of many). Should we be banning helicopters in B.C. because of this loss ? I think Mr Wiegele needs to give his head a shake. If he was smart he would know this was one of the worst avy years ever !

Shame on you Mr. Wiegele for using the deaths of others to further your business ! You should know better !
 
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Add up helicopters versus deaths the snowmobiles versus deaths . Which one do you think has a higher percentage ????
 
hey guys, this may be a little off topic but is there an organized snowmobile group in B.C. to combat this crap? if so, I would like to join. if not, who among us has the resources to start one? I am sick of all the shat slinging and closure threats and am ready to step up and do something about it. I just don't know where to start. :mad:
 
I hope this guy gets his share of negative impact on his business over his misguided and heretical views! Unfortunately, any publicity, even if negative, can be good for business. I also hope that such loose lipped, off handed remarks may wake up more of the sledding community to fight for our right to ride on public or Queen's lands.

54 (28 US and 26 Canada) total tragic avy deaths this year in North America. 19 sledders in Canada and I believe 14 in the US?. He interestingly makes no remarks about skier deaths, which are all the rest I believe. Over the same Winter months what are some of the other tragic deaths from sports, transportation, illness, and etc? Let's look up some of these numbers! I know there are 36,000 deaths a year in the US from the common flu alone! Most influenza virus' are spread in schools? Charge the school districts or teachers for treatment? Of course not! What about tsunamis? Hurricanes? Of course it would be absurd for anyone to mention these tragedies and that since mother nature will always spawn them, everyone should be kept from living within 100 miles inland from any tropical or sub-tropical coastline! How many mountain bikers? Tubing accidents? walking across the street? The list can go on and on. Let's look up some of these stats. Curious...
 
Add up helicopters versus deaths the snowmobiles versus deaths . Which one do you think has a higher percentage ????

I don't know why he didn't try ban choppers in mountainous terrain after his daughters boyfriend was killed in a crash up there??
And the fact that he has his own personal sleds to ride makes no sense?
 
He has had 13 fatalities, 11 of them in avalanches from his heli business since he started. That's not a very good average for one heli ski operation. I'm guessing he's been doing business for thirty or more years. I don't know how many skiers he would of taken up in the early years when he started but he now claims 2000 skiers per season. Imagine how high the death toll would be if he moved into all our sledding areas!
 
2009-2010 will be his 40th year of heli-skiing


I like this excerpt from his brochure:
3. HELICOPTER TRAVEL - the conduct, including negligence of the Carrier. This includes operational error and/or mechanical failure, as well as the additional risks which are posed by helicopter travel in mountainous areas and in adverse weather conditions.

I accept all the inherent risks and dangers of the activity and the possibility of personal injury, death, property damage or loss resulting there from.
 
He has had 13 fatalities, 11 of them in avalanches from his heli business since he started. That's not a very good average for one heli ski operation. I'm guessing he's been doing business for thirty or more years. I don't know how many skiers he would of taken up in the early years when he started but he now claims 2000 skiers per season. Imagine how high the death toll would be if he moved into all our sledding areas!

THAT needs to be exploited to the fullest.

Fight fire with a fire storm.
 
I think if the government has to get involved that they should go out and trigger all the avalanches so we don't get hurt. Simply to prevent problems...after all they do it with drug addicts,safe injection sites, to prevent any accidental overdoses, they could prevent any accidental deaths due to avalanches. The big difference being is that we as a group of tax payers could help to cover some of the costs...unlike the other group who drain the tax dollar and put very little if any back into the economy.

If Mr wiggle finds this ridiculous then take a look in the mirror
 
I fired of a quick email to Mr Wiegele. I am patiently waiting for a reply, LOL. Here it is:

Dear Mr. Wiegele,

I was driving through BC yesterday on my way to Abottsford and could not help but pay close attention to a news story in which you were quoted as saying that the government should ban snowmobiles from all crown land. The reason for your comments were based on the 20 some deaths in avalanche fatalities in Canada from snowmobiles. I find this a very unfortunate that you singled out snowmobilers.

I cannot wonder what your true motives are. For one snowmobilers are not the only ones getting caught in avalanches, skiers, snow boarders, x-country skiers, hikers, mountain climbers have all at one time been involved in some sort of avalanche fatalities. I'm sure you can attest to losing some skiers in avalanches in your own business since its inception, should you close your doors to your customers because of this ? Should you lose your lively hood because of a avalanche ? How many have been killed alone in your operation ? Were they as heavily publicized as the 8 from Sparwood, i think not.

I personally think you are trying to get snowmobilers shut down to further your own business. I can't help but think you would stand to benefit from having snowmobiles banned in the back country. Kind of funny since your use/ride snowmobiles do you not ? I deplore your comments especially since you are using the deaths of others to further your own agenda.

If snowmobiles must be banned from the back country then your operation needs to be banned from the back country as well as all other forms of recreation that leave the beaten protected path. I pay my taxes just like you do. I have fatalities in my sport and you have fatalities in your sport (unfortunately you have more). Do you see the fairness in these comments ?

Helicopters are involved in many deaths throughout Canada alone on a yearly basis. I cannot help but remember a tragic helicopter crash that took the lives of 18 souls this year alone in this one sad incident. Should we be banning helicopters from flying in Canada's airspace. From your point of view maybe we should, but i don't see you voicing your opinion in the media about this statistic. Yes i can only come to the conclusion that your comments were brought on for personal gain alone.

Instead of serving your own interests maybe you should promote safety and education, it is the only way to reduce the fatalities from avalanche. Even the best avalanche technicians / snowmobilers / heli skier guides/owners can make mistakes in the prediction of when it may be safe to ride. Instead of jumping on the crusade in banning snowmobiles, maybe you should focus on education and taking a hard look at your own business, because heli-skiing is no safer than the sport of back country sledding, look at the stats.

I would love to hear your point of view either in person or via email. Please don't hesitate to email me if you so wish. Thank you for your time !

Disappointed,
 
I'm still waiting for some sort of rebuttal statement from the B.C. Snowmobile Federation on the damaging media coverage that Wiegele is responsible for. At least just a short statement, to let joe public know this is a truly one-sided argument on the whole matter. We all know the 19 deaths this winter happened to be sledders that were riding in the backcountry, and perished in avalanches. But a number of skiers also perished in avalanches too!

The general population can make their own opinions about whether or not the taxpayers should be responsible for rescues when sledders may or may not know the inherent risks. If one group cries BAN....then they all should be banned. No more heli-skiing, cat-skiing, mountain biking, quading, snowshoing, crosscountry skiing, etc....because we all use the backcountry. There are risks in all these activities and that's the chance we take.

I have to say that sledders need to get more educated, and mountain savvy. I have been sledding for 15 + yrs in the mountains and have seen our sport evolve from sleds that would never make it into the places that we see sleds go now. Turbo sleds are making it easier and easier to reach all the highest places imaginable, and it seems that more and more inexperienced guys are riding these high powered machines without a second thought to the dangers out there. I believe there needs to be some sort of standard set in place....like a mandatory AST level 1 course at a MINIMUM.

This year I witnessed some VERY unsafe chit going on out there (more than any other year) and also a lot of recklessness like leaving behind whole sleds out in the mtns after crashing them, leaving blown tracks, and other garbage left behind. That Clemina Avalanche Video pretty much explains the stupidity that goes on out there. Sledding in closed areas is another big no-no, even thought we may not agree with the closures they are in place for a reason. These guys that are sledding in the closed areas for that untouched powder may not realize that they will get ALL the areas taken away if they continue doing it. There needs to be more sledders that are on the same page here.

Take an avalanche course, join your local club, be an ambassador for your sport, and even though some may not like it, they need to be told once in awhile what they're doing wrong. :(
 
hey guys, this may be a little off topic but is there an organized snowmobile group in B.C. to combat this crap? if so, I would like to join. if not, who among us has the resources to start one? I am sick of all the shat slinging and closure threats and am ready to step up and do something about it. I just don't know where to start. :mad:

Yup, sure is. www.bcsf.org Join your local club in Salmon Arm. They are a BCSF member club.

Salmon Arm Snowblazers Snowmobile Club
Don Mitchell
250-675-2420
 
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Here is this year's avalanche fatality report taken from our own thread pinned at the top of this section....

2008-2009 USA FATALITIES: 28 CANADIAN FATALITIES: 26

TOTAL FATALITIES: 54

Date Place Fatalities State Country Activity Summary

2009-04-18 Thompson Pass near Valdez 1 AK USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-04-17 Near Thompson Pass outside of Valdez 1 AK USA SKI 1 skier caught in sluff and carried over cliffs, died from trauma
2009-04-14 Notre-Dame Mountains on Quebec's upper Gaspé Peninsula 1 QC CANADA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, and killed
2009-04-10 Clemina Creek in Monashees near Valemount 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-04-05 Norton Creek, 20 miles west of Ketchum 1 ID USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-03-28 Johnson Pass, Kenai Peninsula 1 AK USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-03-27 Valley of the Lakes, 20 km SW of Parson, BC 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-03-25 Hellroaring Creek west of Kimberley 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-03-24 Renshaw Mountain west of Jasper 2 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 3 snowmobilers caught, 2 buried and killed
2009-03-21 Whitewater Creek area of Caribou Mtns, near Blue River 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 3 snowmobilers caught, 1 partially buried, 1 injured, 1 buried and killed
2009-03-18 near 100 Mile House in the Central Interior of B.C. 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-03-16 Sheol Valley southwest of Lake Louise AB CANADA SKI 2 skiers caught, 1 partially buried, 1 completely buried and recovered
2009-03-07 Eagle Cap Wilderness 1 OR USA SKI 3 skiers caught, 1 partially buried, one buried, one buried and killed
2009-03-07 Kicking Horse Mountain Resort - Ozone Permanent Avalanche Closure 2 BC CANADA SKI 2 skiers caught, buried and killed
2009-03-06 Gladiator Ridge, 20 miles northwest of Sun Valley 1 ID USA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, and killed, 1 seriously injured
2009-03-06 Black Lee Drainage 7 miles NE of McCall ID USA SKI 4 skiers caught, 2 buried, 1 injured
2009-03-03 Squaw Valley 1 CA USA SKI 1 skier caught, died from injuries
2009-03-01 Duck Lake area north of Brundage Mountain Ski Area ID USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, carried, and seriously injured
2009-02-27 Trapper Creek, north of Priest Lake 1 ID USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-02-27 Indian Peak area of the Snake River Range in western Wyoming 3 WY USA SNOWMOBILE 4 snowmobilers caught, and buried. 1 self-rescued, 3 killed
2009-02-24 Trinity Mountains near Featherville ID USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler buried and recovered
2009-02-21 near Maggies Peak, Lake Tahoe Region 1 CA USA SKI 1 skier caught and killed
2009-02-11 Mount Two Top; Targhee Natl. Forest MT USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and rescued with serious injuries
2009-01-17 Hell Roaring drainage South of Mt Jefferson 1 MT USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-17 Black Butte area of the Gravelly Range 1 MT USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-17 Northeast facing slope on Crown Butte 1 MT USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-17 Black Meadows area of Babcock Mountain near Tumbler Ridge 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-16 Monashee Mountains, 25 km south of Valemount 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-14 near Banff National Park 1 AB CANADA HIKE 1 hiker caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-11 Mara Mountain area in the B.C. Interior 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2009-01-11 Chetwynd, B.C., located in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains 1 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 5 snowmobilers caught and buried. 4 rescued, 1 killed
2009-01-08 Alice Mountain, 15 kilometres northwest of Terrace, B.C. 1 BC CANADA SNOWBOARD unknown number caught, 1 snowboarder buried, rescued, and died at hospital
2009-01-02 -Main Vein- Ice Climb; Shoshone National Forest 1 WY USA CLIMB 1 ice climber caught and killed
2009-01-01 Secret Chutes Area / CLOSED AREA 1 BC CANADA SNOWBOARD 1 snowboarder caught, buried, and killed in a Closed Area
2008-12-31 Out-of-Area, Blackcomb Backcountry 1 BC CANADA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-30 Rockford, WA (near Spokane, eastern WA) 1 WA USA OTHER Roof Avalanche kills 85 year old women
2008-12-29 Yamaha Hill; Moffat Basin Area 1 UT USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-29 The Headwall; Jackson Hole Mountain Resort WY USA SKI 7 patrollers involved, 4 buried, all rescued
2008-12-28 Brown Bear Basin near Harts Pass 1 WA USA SNOWMOBILE 1 snowmobiler caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-28 Harvey Pass area 8 BC CANADA SNOWMOBILE 11 snowmobilers caught in 2 slides, 8 buried and killed
2008-12-27 Paintbrush Area; Jackson Hole 1 WY USA SKI 2 skiers caught, 1 buried and killed
2008-12-27 Gravel Mountain - Grand Lake Area 2 CO USA SNOWMOBILE 2 snowmobilers caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-26 North of Little Water Peak UT USA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, and rescued alive by companions
2008-12-25 Poulsen’s Gully-Squaw Valley Ski Area 1 CA USA SKI 1 Skier caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-24 Logan Peak - Rodeo Grounds Area 2 UT USA SNOWMOBILE 3 involved, 2 caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-17 NW of Crested Butte - Happy Chutes 1 CO USA SNOWBOARD 1 snowboarder caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-14 Richmond Ridge 1 CO USA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, and killed
2008-12-14 Mt. Baldy, Snowbird Ski Resort 1 UT USA SKI 1 skier caught, buried, died later in the hospital
2008-12-14 Red Pine Lake Area UT USA SKI 1 skier caught, carried, and injured

Looking at this data, this is what I see.


There were 48 reported avalanche incidents in North America. There were 21 non-snowmobiling incidents, and 28 snowmobiling incidents. Here's how it breaks down if I calculate correctly:

Snowmobiling 28 incidents - 36 deaths (obviously multiple deaths in some slides)
Skiing/Snowboarding 18 incidents - 14 deaths
Hiking 1 incident - 1 death
Ice Climbing 1 incident - 1 death
Roof slide 1 incident - 1 death

We need to work on total number of incidents. But, our bigger problem is we have a much higher fatality rate overall, and much higher per incident. I think this is raw data we can all learn from.

However.....this gives Mr. Wiggles absurd request no support! The guy's a loon!
 
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You make me SICK!!

so... let me ask this question... why is anyone asking today what organization they need to belong to and wanting joining information that is PRO-SNOWMOBILING???? AND WHY IN THE HECK ARE THEY NOT ALREADY A MEMBER!!!!!

So when you can only ride your motorcycle/snowmobile/ATV in your front yard and whine about the "good old days" when you could ride in the mountains and now it is gone because you did not belong to an organization that stands up for your privilages... you guys that don't belong to Blue Ribbon, BCF, your local snowmobile club and other pro motorsport organizations... YOU ARE THE PROBLEM:mad:
 
I do belong to the Eagle Valley Snowmobile Club and the BCSF!!! have been for 6 years!!!
just wondering if there is more I can do.

plumnuts; maybe you should get the facts before you call someone the problem! I forsee our sport getting in trouble and I do not want that! I am active but want to get more active in sledding preservation!! if that makes me the problem, then I would hate to see your solution.:confused:
 
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