Dont ride with cell phone on

[DieselTwitch]

i don't know that technology well but can tell you that there is not much time to activate that system once you are caught in a slide. if you are fully buried, then you will not be able to move to activate it at all.

it takes a long time for rescue to come and most victims will suffocate by then. last week at work, we dug out a guy buried for about 2 minutes that had just gone into respiratory arrest. fortunately, he started to breath again within a minute of exposing his airway. it can happen faster than someone can respond to your SPOT. partner rescue is your best and often only option.

I don't think you getting the idea we are going for here. Its not to get buried and wait for SAR to find you using the location your spot transmits via an email or text though a satellite. The idea is to transmit your EXACT location directly to your partner. That way there is no primary search. The idea is also not to activate your spot during a slide. this would be the equal to turning on your beacon while you're in a slide. its not going to happen. Right now Av beacons do one thing. send out a pulse, thats its. What I and a few others are talking about is having the beacon transmit not only that same pulse but also your exact location down to with in 5' or so. This way your partner can walk directly to your location and start digging. using the beacons pulse to help guide the dig portion of the rescue only. The idea here is not to do away with partner rescue or avbeacons as they are today just augment them to work better, faster and be more precise in guiding the rescue.

Would a Spot transmitter be able to send out a location that could be picked up, when buried? (This is assuming you have the Spot on your body, and ON and signed up for that service).

Time will still be an issue. Meaning can the signal be sent, received, and interpreted fast enough.

Hmmm?

Im glad you see what Im trying todo. However, I find a few problems with the idea of using a spot.
1. Spots seam to be very week at getting a GPS lock. They seam to take 10-15 minutes just to get a GPS location when left in an area with good sky view and another 10-15 min to transmit a signal. I can only wonder what they would do if buried under feet of snow.
2. They also use a closed source signal that only they know how to decode. So we would have to get that out of spot. The APRS that ham radios use is open source meaning we can build them to do what ever we want. with out having to go through some grueling process to decode the data.

Ive found some of the parts needed to start development. Ham guys are very good at being nerds. the've managed to pack a GPS Antenna, Radio that transmits on 144.390MHz along with a battery into an Altsoid's can!

For those that don't understand APRS (Automatic Packet Reporting System) I will try to explain how it works. think about how this could be used in a search. Its instant pier to pier. no third party service is need.

APRS is just what the name suggest, its an Automatic (time interval) transmit of a packet of data. This packet can contain anything you like. GPS Location, Heart Rate, Blood O2/CO Levels, Temperature....
This packet is transmitted on a 2 way radio frequency of 144.39 MHz this signal can be picked up for miles!!! In the case of a rescue 500 yards would be awesome!
This same packet is picked up on the receiving radio that also contains a GPS receiver. the radio can then point you directly to the location of the transmitter.

This has other applications for us backcountry people. Thing about the last time you rode with your buddy in the woods. did you see each other 100% of the time? Not me. I really think its amazing we don't lose each other more often. Using APRS it wouldn't matter. I would just need to pull out my radio and it would tell me where he's at. A radio transmitting every 60 seconds on lower power (range of 25 miles line of sight) would have a battery life of 100 hours! and all this would fit in side of this altsoids can! and could easily cost less than a AvBeacon

 

[Beartoothclimb]

I don't think you getting the idea we are going for here. Its not to get buried and wait for SAR to find you using the location your spot transmits via an email or text though a satellite. The idea is to transmit your EXACT location directly to your partner. That way there is no primary search. The idea is also not to activate your spot during a slide. this would be the equal to turning on your beacon while you're in a slide. its not going to happen. Right now Av beacons do one thing. send out a pulse, thats its. What I and a few others are talking about is having the beacon transmit not only that same pulse but also your exact location down to with in 5' or so. This way your partner can walk directly to your location and start digging. using the beacons pulse to help guide the dig portion of the rescue only. The idea here is not to do away with partner rescue or avbeacons as they are today just augment them to work better, faster and be more precise in guiding the rescue.

]

Cell phones use GPS and/or triangulation. GPS does not work under snow. Even if it did, what would you do if you could not receive the minimum 4 satellites?
How do you expect a beacon to transmit it's exact location? What reference position would it use?

I think you have good intentions but i don't see how any of it would work.

 

[DieselTwitch]

Cell phones use GPS and/or triangulation. GPS does not work under snow. Even if it did, what would you do if you could not receive the minimum 4 satellites?
How do you expect a beacon to transmit it's exact location? What reference position would it use?

I think you have good intentions but i don't see how any of it would work.

Who told you GPS doesn't work under snow? I've had my GPS under 10' of snow and had full signal. It all depends on the gain of the GPS antenna.

Also if it can't get a GPS antenna, remember the standard 457 kHz beacon signal will still be there.

THIS IS JUST AN AUGMENT TO, NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR AVALANCHE BEACONS. My goal is to eliminate the lengthy initial single search. especially if its a long flow. Seen Flows go for 3/4-1.5 miles... That's a huge area to search.

 

[Beartoothclimb]

Who told you GPS doesn't work under snow? I've had my GPS under 10' of snow and had full signal. It all depends on the gain of the GPS antenna.

Also if it can't get a GPS antenna, remember the standard 457 kHz beacon signal will still be there.

THIS IS JUST AN AUGMENT TO, NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR AVALANCHE BEACONS. My goal is to eliminate the lengthy initial single search. especially if its a long flow. Seen Flows go for 3/4-1.5 miles... That's a huge area to search.

Gotcha. I should have put don't work well under snow, especially the deeper ya go.

 

[DieselTwitch]

Gotcha. I should have put don't work well under snow, especially the deeper ya go.

I have a 40dB Gain Antenna that has been able to get good signal in two story basements.

I found a study done by some people and they tested gps signals at different depths but they didn't spec what antenna they used. Even the most expensive handheld GPS receiver still only has modest antenna. To prove this look on almost any handheld and turn it over. you will see an external antenna port. go buy a 40 db antenna and you will be amazed at how much better the lock becomes!