Does Weight Really Matter?

[couch]

I do not totally agree with this statement. I believe that weight in some instances can effect a sleds performance, but I believe that it is a brilliant marketing tactic by Poo to illuminate the fact that poo offers the lightest sled out there. I too often fell that guys are stuck on concept of light = better. I for one would rather a sled 40lbs heavier and able to take an awkward drop, or a sturdy hit to the chassis and be able to shrug my shoulders and keep riding rather than have to get towed out of the BC.

The next factor to play on the weight equations is the engine. There is a reason both cat and yami engines are bullet proof.... because they are designed to be. Once again, riding out rather than towed out

I would have to think that the snow weight accumulation vids have more to do marketing fireback than anything

Had Nytro's that were heavy ... they couldn't take any more abuse / hits than the pros .... great motor but the weight & balance (lack) was noticeable and lousy engineering re skid and front end.
Design spiral for most items try to get as light as possible so that everything else can be made comparably smaller ... lighter chassis means less power is required to move and smaller break systems required to stop which in turn allows the chassis to be lightened as the other components become lighter .... yes there is a limit .... and in most cases its cost.

 

[BigFish BC]

I'm on my 2nd Pro RMK 163....had a 2011 from new and now a 2015. Me and a few friends organized our own "demo day" the last 2 springs where we got a new pol, cat and doo from the dealers and switched around all day. Might be a little tricky to do depending where you live and your relationship with dealers, but the dealers here rock and we are all serious buyers, so it worked out very well. The Yammy dealer is out of the way and out of the mix....or I'm sure we'd one of those too. I ride within an hour or 2 radius from home 99% of the time.


I honestly don't see anyone telling anyone what to ride, what not to ride, or judging anyone's decision. The other thread was started to discuss what Yamaha could change, or do better in future models so that they appealed to more people....which is totally legit and not pot stirring at all. I'll happily tell you 10 things Pol could have done better on my RMK and 10 things I hope they change on the next rendition.....it's just not that big of a deal. I don't see any problem with discussing "want lists" for future models. You guys don't get special kid gloves because you bought the thing. It's a product on the open market....people are free to judge it and discuss it how they wish.

Lucky you guys DON'T have an RMK....cause if you had to hang out in that section of the forum and see the outside scrutiny.....you'd have to see a therapist before lunch!

i have absolutely no prob with discussion when people don't over exaggerate everything.the reason these threads all start is because of opinions & like i said we are all different & want different things.the attitude most of the 2 stroke riders bring to these threads is what i mean by telling people what they should ride.it dosnt need to be directly said its pretty obvious by the attitude of mine is better than yours..you are on this thread saying this sled is to heavy & you have not even tried one along with every other negative commenter,all of you are just assuming it the same as a nytro or apex.iam really not sure how we are all talking about something most have no time on.
i know the thread is about does weight make a diff but its pretty obvious what its being pointed at.does weight make a diff i guess it depends on what brand you own by the looks of it.

 

[Jaynelson]

..you are on this thread saying this sled is to heavy & you have not even tried one along with every other negative commenter,

Too heavy for what? To be rideable? Obviously not. There are a variety of reasons I don't own one...weight is one, lack of stock HP another, dealer another, rolling over my sled a lot another, and not preferring the Cat chassis is another. That's enough for me....but other people will have a local Yamaha dealer, don't spend as much time upside down, and think the Cat chassis is the best of the 3. Or they really want a 4-stroke because they make crazy reliable power on boost. Fine by me....different strokes.

My stance in both of these threads is that is the weight issue is holding back the sales of 4-strokes....if you disagree with that, no prob! If so, what do you feel makes for the dismal sales numbers compared to the 2-strokes? And what would it take for them to make a splash in the mountain sled market the way they did/have in the motocross and bush dirtbikes?

 

[Sharp]

And what would it take for them to make a splash in the mountain sled market the way they did/have in the motocross and bush dirtbikes?[/QUOTE]

Getting Chris Burandt to ride one. There's a lot of mindless people out there. All it would take is the right amount of money to get him. If he was still on a Cat more people would ride Cats. It came down to money. Cat wont sponsor KJ, Bruandt limited and Brown. Brown switched due to money. They believe there is no value in it. Yam is the same way. Of course I disagree. Also, Yam needs to start winning races and the hillclimbs like Jackson Hole. This would require more sponsors for both events. Which most likely will not happen. They also need to put more into marketing. They make a great product and will always be around. Poo does a great job with marketing. Without the RZR they would have been hurting for those years of the dragon. Go 900! Oh wait that thing sucked. If Cat could get Yam to let them use the apex engine in the wildcat say goodbye to the RZR. Some people say that its an old outdate engine. Really? Awesome engine. If they put it in a viper more people would buy one. Yam had a large lawsuit over the rhino, which they won but had to pay lots of $ in attorneys fees. Once again stupid mindless people. I'm starting to sound like Gruber.

I'm going to ask the question again? Would anyone turbo a Poo at 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas?

 

[CatRpillar]

He must like pigs

Mmmmmm, bacon.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Let's be perfectly honest here fellows.....if you had to ride one mountain sled bone stock for the entire season which one of the 4 brands would you choose ?

DPG

 

[Modedmach1]

Let's be perfectly honest here fellows.....if you had to ride one mountain sled bone stock for the entire season which one of the 4 brands would you choose ?

DPG

Ski Doo for me.

 

[Sharp]

Let's be perfectly honest here fellows.....if you had to ride one mountain sled bone sit?ock for the entire season which one of the 4 brands would you choose ?

DPG

Ski-doo 174". Best stock sled on the market. Best power, front suspension and they look awesome. But would you turbo it?

 

[Sharp]

Let's be perfectly honest here fellows.....if you had to ride one mountain sled with 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas for the next three season which one of the 4 brands would you choose ?

 

[Jaynelson]

Chris brown rode a Yamaha for a couple years....I didn't see people flooding over in droves. Marketing definitely helps, but you do have to back it up to an extent. Burandt is definitely the guy with the most exposure....can't fault him or pol for that. What can you say? That really has been the dream team as far as product and marketing since 2011. Yamaha has very deep pockets and could easy market as heavily as pol...if they wanted to. Burandt isn't the only guy out there, or even necessarily the "best," but he clearly has the best manufacturer support for backcountry.

I don't get the 14lbs of boost on pump gas question. Boost vs fuel type is a function of tuning, compression ratio, fuel system, timing, etc. if you detonate it trying to max out on crappy fuel, it won't matter what motor it is. But if you're asking what motors take the most boost and power in the sled world....is there any controversy on that? I think you would get unanimous agreement it's the Yamaha 4strokes...

 

[Jeva]

Let's be perfectly honest here fellows.....if you had to ride one mountain sled with 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas for the next three season which one of the 4 brands would you choose ?

None of them will handle 14lbs of boost on pump gas at my elevation.

 

[stingray719]

Ski Doo for me.

So DPG takes another thread off topic, why am I surprised?

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Out of the box stock the it's hard to argue about Doo XM performance......

My Proclimb has a good motor and a great track but everything else about the sled is mediocre I feel the same about the Viper MTX same chassis so to correct that I'm going to spend a few $$$$ to enhance the area of the chassis that requires attention for my riding style and by doing so I will increase performance while continuing to drop weight. The Viper on the other hand has a great motor just underpowered out of the box at 135hp requiring a $4000 turbo just to come out and play with the other stockers.

Say what you want guys Clearly Polaris & Doo Get It in the steep & deep . There performance right out of the box flat out works....For those in denial thats perfectly ok...They say love can be blind sometimes but than again if your happy I'm happy....2016 Snowcheck season is just 60 days away today.

DPG

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

So DPG takes another thread off topic, why am I surprised?

Dude the only person on the forum who is off topic is you.....Since you struggle to noticed the topic happens to be titled "does weight matter." Should we be comparing the Viper MTX to a Honda Goldwing instead ?

What if you were part of a 6 man labor crew required to carry 6 backpacks up a 2000' mountain ..And you get 1st pick at the 6 backpacks...3 back packs weigh 60 pounds 3 back packs weigh 100 pounds which back pack would you pick? hmmmmm

DPG

 

[LuckydawgAK]

What if you were part of a 6 man labor crew required to carry 6 backpacks up a 2000' mountain ..And you get 1st pick at the 6 backpacks...3 back packs weigh 60 pounds 3 back packs weigh 100 pounds which back pack would you pick? hmmmmm

DPG

Don't forget though, the back packs come with either hiking boots or sneakers. The sneakers go with the light weight back packs. They are comfortable, easy to walk in but you'll have to resole them in 2000 steps. The hiking boots will likely need a slight adjustment at 20,000 steps. You can add an insole to either that greatly improves your step. In the sneakers you'll expect a 50% reduction in steps but with the hiking boots, not an issue.

DPG, I would love to reduce more weight on my Yammi, who wouldn't. Improvements should and could be made but the fact that it is a 4S though it will always be heavier. One likely chooses Yammi for the dependability and torque of a (boosted) 4S with a sacrifice being weight. Weight matters to me but not at the expense of performance and reliability. You should try it before you knock it.

 

[BigFish BC]

I'm going to ask the question again? Would anyone turbo a Poo at 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas?
this was a quote not sure what happened its sharps question.

cant be done but probably be fun for 5 minutes

a 4 stroke just needs a head shim to run 14lbs boost on pump or a timing box.

 

[CatRpillar]

I think the question of which sled you would pick is pretty much answered in this Yammie section. The only other question is whether you turbo it.

I'm going to start a thread in each of the other brand sections and ask them what brand they would choose. Lol

I guess nobody is going to buy the Hellcat over the Mustang either because it is heavier. ...

 

[CatRpillar]

I'm going to ask the question again? Would anyone turbo a Poo at 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas?
cant be done but probably be fun for 5 minutes

a 4 stroke just needs a head shim to run 14lbs boost on pump or a timing box.

And what does a two stroke need to run the same?

 

[Jeva]

The topic goes from "Does weight really matter" to talking about tennis shoes and boots and muscle cars and how much boost you can make on pump gas. Nothing even relating to the original post. Talk about off topic.

 

[Jaynelson]

I'm going to ask the question again? Would anyone turbo a Poo at 14+ lbs of boost on pump gas?

Your question makes no sense. I'm not sure you understand the theory behind engine building and forced induction....and how they relate to fuel type. That's like asking would anyone run a turbo Yamaha on 20lbs with pump fuel....or 14lbs on 87 octane. It doesn't matter who builds it if you try to go up against physics. Different motors can run different boost levels on different types of fuel due to a variety of variables in the engine, turbo, EMS and fuel system. No 2-stroke sled can run 14lbs on pump fuel, but it's not due to the strength of the engine components. You can have the strongest engine internals on the planet....but if you have detonation issues (from too much boost and/or CR for the fuel you're running)....you'll break something. On ANY internal combustion engine.

Also, no one is arguing that Yamaha 4-strokes have the best power and reliability with FI....it's a very well known fact. If want to be the HP king and run it all-in - race gas, built motor, all the boost it will make and a fuel system to keep up...obviously the 4-stroke has a LOT more potential than the 2.