Does Knock off = Garrett quality ?

[gus bohne]

Its a question I seem to get more and more.

How do they compare ?

Do they survive the same ?

Do they perform the same ?

Do they have any warranty ?

Who warranties them ?

How do we know the difference ?


I cannot answer these questions from users standpoint as I ONLY use Genuine Garrett turbos on any sled thru my hands.

I am curious as are most,, lets face it, saving several hundred dollars on a turbo can go along way in paying for other components ..

The durability and performance if on par with the real thing is my only concern..


How do YOU The end users, feel about buying a system with a knock off ?

Would you WANT to know before the purchase ?

Would it sway your decision to purchase ?

The price difference is huge!!! out here in New hampshire, a garrett 3082 is 1400 $

A knock off of same sizing ( theoretically ) is 400$ ..

Tempting,, yes, and many of the import car drag racers are using them ( gt40's at 35 psi).
Their feelings are " so what if it brakes",, we can have 4 spares in the trailer and still spend the same as ONE Garrett. ??


Please post how you guys see it and how you would like it presented to you?

do you want Me as a builder ( and any others ) to state which you get in our systems ?

Thanks Guys, and builders for your input.

Gus

 

[mastertech]

I think every kit should include the Brand parts that will be included.. I personally would never buy a "Knock Off" turbo for a sled.. In the car would I have seen many POS" ss auto chrome" etc brand turbo go down..Complete junk compaired to the real deal..

Just my 2 cents..

 

[gus bohne]

Thank you very much for your input,.

Gus

 

[snowmobiler]

i can see a market for a $2000 knock off kit.good for around 1000 miles.who cares whats in it.replace new turbo every summer.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I personally woulnt run one.. The cost savings just arent worth it, heard enough horror stories of import guys running them, the bearings disintegrate, the impellers hit the housings and flake apart, sending them into your motor.. obviously its not good on a 4 stroke to puke one, but on a 2 stroke, if you eject melt into the motor, its gonna eat the chit out of your reeds, and hopefully not have to much fun with your bottom end while its down there.

When your spending 5-6k on a turbo for a $10k sled, I dont see the value of risking it.

we also cant just call a tow truck like a car can if it pukes. i had an ebay 16g turbo I bought for VERY cheap, it had been run for maybe 10 hours and the bearings were so sloppy you could rub the intake impeller on the housing AFTER TEN HOURS!!!! sorry, but that just doesnt seem worth the cost of nuking a motor and trying to get towed home. I put the thing in the garbage.

 

[gus bohne]

Thanks again guys,




Gus

 

[sled-fiend]

I wouldn't run a knockoff. In a car, a tow truck is a call away. In the mountains not so much. If I was presenented with a turbo kit that had a knock off turbo I would intsantly question the quality of the entire kit. Just my 2cents.

 

[islanddoo]

I am with everyone else, the last chopper ride was $1000 not worth it in my opinion! Only use the best parts if possible and practicle.

 

[gus bohne]

Do you expect the builder / supplier to be upfront as to origin of manufacture ?

So far your all fair and unbiased about your opinions,, pretty good for a bunch of snowfairies !!! thanks guys..

Gus

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

I expect them to be VERY upfront about the origin of the turbo. I just look at kits all the time for fun, even thought Im not in the market for them at all, and if I see something like a knock off turbo on it, it screams to me, crappy parts, poor design. When I see stuff like the ovs kits with the tial housings and all. good parts speak to me. I know you can hack good parts together and not have them work, but in the sled industy, I feel like you need good parts to make a good kit. so without good parts.. just keep walking, im not interested.

 

[snowmobiler]

for 5000,yes upfront,should be gold plated and a five year warrenty

 

[CBX]

Garrett turbo's are pretty sweet. Dont get me wrong. But they aren't the only ones.... I've seen air reasearch turbos that would be deemed cave man turbo's by todays standards used on john deeres with 25,000 hrs still go round and round.... with dirt ingestion.

Seen HKK and all types. Even the Jap and Chino ones that have lots of hrs.

Dont by ebay imitation ones sold by the same guys makeing kids swing sets in the same factory in china, but at the same time, Proper lube and foreign debries(sp?) is way more important than anyother factor. The biggest killer of 2stroke turbo's is pistons and what ever else coming and taking out the turbine wheel.

At the same time, you should probably expect that your may toast one at some point. Stuff happens. It just happens alot more on sleds. Happens to the Four strokes also. Not as often, but it can happen. Yeah it sucks and yeah its expensive.

Bottom line, you usually get what you pay for. For on/off throttle useage like a sled sees, you really cant beat a ball bearing turbo. I don't mean to be a hater of the other design out there, ( I think its an awesome design, it just needs to work and last like the others out there) but turbo's should last the life of the engine, minimum...... Like i said, traded A JD 4320 a few years ago with almost 30,000 hrs. Turbo and injectors went were redone by me at 25k...... Thats 3125 days of 8 hour days if you want to look at it that way. Machine was over 30 years old.

If your spending 3,000 to turbo your sled, and you can't afford another 1000-1500 to buy the better turbo and the other stuff to make sure your turbo will actually last, you probably shouldn't own one to begin with..... Seriously. In order to be a turbo owner, you should be fully prepared with either a backup sled, or 4-5k ready to go when you nuke an engine and turbo.

Myself, I would run any name brand turbo that fits the application. I would like to know what i'm buying if i were buying a complete setup. There again, i think people need to be qualified for stuff. Sleds included. How often have you all seen someone that had no business doing what they were doing. Like a super duper mod sled that spends all day long on a tow rope, ruining everyone elses day.

Pay to play is the name of the game. More power and go fast more pay required. Thats everything including sleds, cars, airplanes and women

 

[sled-fiend]

100% the customer should know exactley what he's getting for his money.

 

[theshadowrider]

Hmm?

Do you expect the builder / supplier to be upfront as to origin of manufacture ?

Not sure what you are asking, seems like a given to me? The way I see it, imo, thats like asking, do you expect a builder/supplier, that you are sending 5k, to be honest? Of course!!! What kind of question is that? Who isn't being upfront and I will make sure I never buy anything from them and I tell as many people as I know to not buy from them!

 

[Tonysnoo]

Hey Gus, good thread.

I see lots of stuff made in china or malaysia or??? I know there are foreign made parts that are made under contract with pretty tight QC controls (one of our major outdoor wear manufacturers comes to mind). Then I see the "knock off junk" that is also out there.

I suspect that if a reputable parts distributor had turbos made to their spec and QCed then they would prolly be OK.....Hyundai or KIA may not make the very best cars but they must be pretty good.

We used to cuss Japanese stuff years ago......last year when I unpacked my Garrett, I saw a made in Japan label on it.

Kinda like the helmet argument......LOL

 

[gus bohne]

Yes, there are many high end builders of custom turbos ,,NONE of the high end units are in question here.

How do we discern between an oem garrett and a knock off ?
Many parts of the turbo are made in china, japan, korea and so forth.

I EXPECT that ANY kit builder will be HONEST when asked .
That being said, Don't buy what YOU don't feel comfortable with, Just because its an e bay unit doen't seem to mean it will be a bad unit at the low end kit expectation of LOW BOOST,,VERY LOW BOOST..

When we buy the BOTTOM of the line kit we should EXPECT limits to its usefull working range of boost and real world airflow.

I also don't want to see bashing over what choice a builder uses,, to date its still a coin toss as to IF the e bay turbo is gonna be a dud or not..Ya I don't see it as a worthy place to shave a few bux but I am NOT a low end builder or care to deal with the low end buyer..
( its my preference to deal with seasoned users )..wow sound like a drug dealer or what ..LOL

thanks again guys
Gus

 

[brycter]

is there guys out there that are using the low end stuff? i personally dont like the to use low grade products.

It just flat scares me!!!

i want a person who puts time and effort into the product and the mind set of lowend builders is " ahh its good enough"

 

[gus bohne]

Bryce, thanks for stepping up..

YES,, there are e bay turbo peddlers among us..

I am very disappointed that ALL the builders have not stepped up to declare what they are selling as Garrett or NOT..

Our customers, Our friends and members of Snowwest deserve to know what they are paying for..

how would they like to open a new doo piston kit and find a wiseco in it ????
What goes around comes around..
Honesty goes a long way..

Gus

 

[brycter]

Well then let me just make a stand here. Turbo Performance only sell Name brand products in our kits and let me tell you they are not always cheap!!!

Don't settle for that junk product it only will hurt you and your customers in the long run. plus it makes us kit builders look like a bunch of scabs!!

come on guys.

 

[gus bohne]

ATTA BOY !!

If anyone purchases a DOO system that does NOT have a GARRETT tag on it,, GET YOUR MONEY BACK !!!

There are many super turbo builders, ie.airreseach,turbonetics,precision..etc..

these are NOT suspect units,, NO name ( origin of manuf. USA only, no state or other info) .. its a knock off..

In the end its YOUR choice ,, but if the kit supplier is vague or resistant to put a NAME on the turbo you can see on a metal TAG NOT pop riveted but hammer riveted on ..

just calling it a gt28rs is NOT how we say Garrett.

we don't say 350 ho and know its a chevy,, we say chevy..get it,, good.





Gus