Ain't that the truth though
Diesel vs. Gasoline: COST comparison.
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
S
snowcannon
Member
one thing that has not been mentioned (I think), frequent short trips that don't allow the engine to properly warm up can be a killer for a diesel.
Isn't that all about condensation in the oil pan?
What is considered short trips? For example I drive 9 miles (one way to work) 5 days a week. in the winter I always let my truck warm up if outside or it's sitting in a headed garage. Is this type of stuff what you are talking about or like the guys who like a mile from work?
So when is a Diesel FULLY warmed up Andra?
I know that seems like the simple answer.
But I wonder.
We usually look at the water temp as a sign that an engine is "warm".
But I would guess that massive supply of Oil is probably a better location to measure Temp. When the oil is good and HOT, then the engine is really fully warm.
S
snowcannon
Member
I'm not a mechanic, probably means I don't really know what I'm talking about
Heard of a farmer in my area that used his new diesel truck to drive from his house to the barn one mile away. Blew the engine after six months.
Heard of a farmer in my area that used his new diesel truck to drive from his house to the barn one mile away. Blew the engine after six months.
Better be "heating" up your transmission and axels with a torch before you drive the truck then . Don't want that cold non lubricating oil to ruin the axels, bearings and transmission
I'm not a mechanic, probably means I don't really know what I'm talking about
Heard of a farmer in my area that used his new diesel truck to drive from his house to the barn one mile away. Blew the engine after six months.
I've been cold starting and driving my truck to work for 5 years, no problems. 3 years shop was 1 miles from home. The last 2 the shop is 10 miles.
I'm not a mechanic, probably means I don't really know what I'm talking about
Heard of a farmer in my area that used his new diesel truck to drive from his house to the barn one mile away. Blew the engine after six months.
He either got a piece of sh!t or he was doing 0-60 test runs to beyond the redline in second gear from home to the barn every day.
S
snowcannon
Member
I should add: this happened 15 years ago. Would it make a difference if it was driven in winter without warming up?
They must have started doing those tests after the Ford 6.0 and countless other engines from various makes.
I had 256,000 on my old 7.3.
I always start my rigs and drive.
I take it nice and easy for a few miles. Unless temps are single digit or less, i don't let them sit for 1 min warming up.
I've had lots of rigs with over 200,000 miles.
Only engine damage i have had is from holding the throttle to the floor for minutes at a time, yes minutes not seconds. And both of those were gassers.
GS6
I always start my rigs and drive.
I take it nice and easy for a few miles. Unless temps are single digit or less, i don't let them sit for 1 min warming up.
I've had lots of rigs with over 200,000 miles.
Only engine damage i have had is from holding the throttle to the floor for minutes at a time, yes minutes not seconds. And both of those were gassers.
GS6
Come on.
We are really taking about two very different issues here.
The Engine oil NEEDS to get good and hot to remove any condensated moisture and to burn off any fuel by products that it accumulates while circulating cold, DOESN'T IT?
Diesel Warm up & Idle Times
http://www.dieselhub.com/tech/warm-up.html
Cold Start Idle Time
The recommended warm up and warm down times will vary considerable depening on a number of conditions. Diesels rely on compression for ignition, and therefore tend to run on the rough side when the engine is cold. Likewise, a diesel will not produce much heat unless it is put under a load. To recap, a diesel doesn't like to run cold, but it needs to be driven to warm up; talk about a contradiction. The truth of the matter is that your diesel, regardless of make or model, needs a short idle period to reach a point in which it is safe to drive, at which point putting a load on the engine will allow it to warm up to the proper operating temperature. A number of techniques have been employed over the years to reduce warm up times, from backpressure imposing valves in the exhaust to richer idle mixtures for cold engines.
Wet Stacking & Extended Idling Periods
Wet stacking is the phenomenon that occurs when combustion temperatures drop below ideal in a diesel engine. It most typically occurs during periods of extended idling, especially in colder weather. When wet stacking occurs, combustion temperatures are low enough that not all the fuel is burned. The problem with wet stacking is that fuel can enter the crankcase (fuel dilution). Fuel dilution contaminates engine oil, thus the reason that most manufacturers categorize diesels that are subject to extended idling periods under the "Severe Duty" category in regards to maintenance intervals.
The Importance of Proper Warm Up
Allowing your engine to warm before applying any significant load is important. The colder the ambient temperature, the more critical that this becomes. The concern here is that the viscocity of oil, like any other liquid, increases as temperature decreases. The flow and lubricity charactersitics are therefore very different when the engine is cold, as opposed to when it has been brought to operating temperature. It is generally acceptable to assume that once oil pressure has stabilized, it is safe to operate the vehicle under load. Unfortunately, many oil pressure gauges are what are referred to as "dummy" gauges - they don't actual display changes in oil pressure, but only respond if oil pressure drops beyond a predetermined level to warn the driver. Therefore, one can only assume as to when it is safe to drive. Engine oils are rated for specific temperature ranges, so it is important to follow the guidelines outlined by the manufacturer (always found in your truck's owners manual or diesel supplement).
Diesels Require Load to Reach Operating Temperature
Relatively speaking, a diesel does not produce a lot of heat at idle. A load is typically required to bring the engine to full operating temperature. Even an engine at operating temperature can suffer from fuel dilution if allowed to idle for an extended period. Load can not be created by simply increasing engine speed, it requires the resistance created by driving. The harder an engine has to work, the faster it will reach normal operating temperature. However, you should still drive gently when the engine is cold.
Recommended Warm Up Procedures for Diesels
By now you've come to realize the full extent of the dilemna. You don't want to allow the engine to idle for too long, but you also don't want to put a load on a cold engine until it is good and ready. The recommended warm up period depends on ambient conditions, as well as how you'll be using the truck. The following are generally accepted standards for diesel warm up periods, which only pertain to cold starts (the engine has been sitting overnight or for some length of time without being ran).
• If the engine/truck manufacturer provided you with recommended start/warm up procedures, follow them.
• Engine block heaters provide easier/safer cold starts and allow the engine to warm up faster. If you're engine is equipped with a block heater, use it accordingly.
• Consider using a high quality synthetic engine oil for better cold weather performance and protection.
• In cold weather (at or below freezing), allow the engine to idle 5-7 minutes before driving.
• For normal/warm weather, 2-3 minutes is an adequate idle period.
• In hot weather, the engine should only require 1-2 minutes of idling.
• If you will be towing, consider extending the warm up period by a small margin.
• Keep rpm low and drive light on the throttle until your engine reaches its normal operating temperature.
In actuallity, warm up periods are more important in heavy duty trucks that are under significant loads at all times. Proper warm up times for light/medium duty diesels are debatable, as there is no single correct answer. If the above recommendations conflict with your own views, do whatever you are comfortable with.
http://www.dieselhub.com/tech/warm-up.html
Cold Start Idle Time
The recommended warm up and warm down times will vary considerable depening on a number of conditions. Diesels rely on compression for ignition, and therefore tend to run on the rough side when the engine is cold. Likewise, a diesel will not produce much heat unless it is put under a load. To recap, a diesel doesn't like to run cold, but it needs to be driven to warm up; talk about a contradiction. The truth of the matter is that your diesel, regardless of make or model, needs a short idle period to reach a point in which it is safe to drive, at which point putting a load on the engine will allow it to warm up to the proper operating temperature. A number of techniques have been employed over the years to reduce warm up times, from backpressure imposing valves in the exhaust to richer idle mixtures for cold engines.
Wet Stacking & Extended Idling Periods
Wet stacking is the phenomenon that occurs when combustion temperatures drop below ideal in a diesel engine. It most typically occurs during periods of extended idling, especially in colder weather. When wet stacking occurs, combustion temperatures are low enough that not all the fuel is burned. The problem with wet stacking is that fuel can enter the crankcase (fuel dilution). Fuel dilution contaminates engine oil, thus the reason that most manufacturers categorize diesels that are subject to extended idling periods under the "Severe Duty" category in regards to maintenance intervals.
The Importance of Proper Warm Up
Allowing your engine to warm before applying any significant load is important. The colder the ambient temperature, the more critical that this becomes. The concern here is that the viscocity of oil, like any other liquid, increases as temperature decreases. The flow and lubricity charactersitics are therefore very different when the engine is cold, as opposed to when it has been brought to operating temperature. It is generally acceptable to assume that once oil pressure has stabilized, it is safe to operate the vehicle under load. Unfortunately, many oil pressure gauges are what are referred to as "dummy" gauges - they don't actual display changes in oil pressure, but only respond if oil pressure drops beyond a predetermined level to warn the driver. Therefore, one can only assume as to when it is safe to drive. Engine oils are rated for specific temperature ranges, so it is important to follow the guidelines outlined by the manufacturer (always found in your truck's owners manual or diesel supplement).
Diesels Require Load to Reach Operating Temperature
Relatively speaking, a diesel does not produce a lot of heat at idle. A load is typically required to bring the engine to full operating temperature. Even an engine at operating temperature can suffer from fuel dilution if allowed to idle for an extended period. Load can not be created by simply increasing engine speed, it requires the resistance created by driving. The harder an engine has to work, the faster it will reach normal operating temperature. However, you should still drive gently when the engine is cold.
Recommended Warm Up Procedures for Diesels
By now you've come to realize the full extent of the dilemna. You don't want to allow the engine to idle for too long, but you also don't want to put a load on a cold engine until it is good and ready. The recommended warm up period depends on ambient conditions, as well as how you'll be using the truck. The following are generally accepted standards for diesel warm up periods, which only pertain to cold starts (the engine has been sitting overnight or for some length of time without being ran).
• If the engine/truck manufacturer provided you with recommended start/warm up procedures, follow them.
• Engine block heaters provide easier/safer cold starts and allow the engine to warm up faster. If you're engine is equipped with a block heater, use it accordingly.
• Consider using a high quality synthetic engine oil for better cold weather performance and protection.
• In cold weather (at or below freezing), allow the engine to idle 5-7 minutes before driving.
• For normal/warm weather, 2-3 minutes is an adequate idle period.
• In hot weather, the engine should only require 1-2 minutes of idling.
• If you will be towing, consider extending the warm up period by a small margin.
• Keep rpm low and drive light on the throttle until your engine reaches its normal operating temperature.
In actuallity, warm up periods are more important in heavy duty trucks that are under significant loads at all times. Proper warm up times for light/medium duty diesels are debatable, as there is no single correct answer. If the above recommendations conflict with your own views, do whatever you are comfortable with.
Are we?
Does oil not provide adequate protection against wear when not hot?
If it doesn't then what about all the other oiled parts of the truck??
Those other parts of the truck still deal with condensate moisture, contaminants etc.....
I will not waste my time letting the engine oil get HOT in anything. I will let the coolant temp get up to 165° or so before letting my Cummins engine rev above 2500rpms, in my personal truck
I'm coming from the aspect of a money making vehicle, the ones that get you to a job and get the job done without breaking down. If I let my crew trucks and rigs idle to the point of making sure the engine oil was up to temp, I'd have guys sitting around all day between the crew truck , rig, water truck, backhoe....... Have I ever had a lubrication based failure in the last 10+years on 4 drill rigs, 5 crew trucks, 5 backhoes, 4 water trucks, HELL NO! And we don't let the oil get "hot" before moving or running anything. A few min warm up
Is more than adequate... If I plan on full throttle the warm up time may be 20 min at idle. Then, Balls to the wall of needed
