D8 Dyno Results With PCV & with out.

[R44guy]

I wanted to start this thread to address the extremely too lean fuel map that Polaris dealers have been installing on every 800 CFI since the engine update came out.

I have to admit when I first read the posts here on the 4m related to runability issues for the 800. In the Auto Service world it is called drivability concerns or issues.

Well until I got the itch I bought a left over 2009 RMK Dragon 800 for what I thought was a relative good deal!

I could not make it to the trailer at the dealership with out the sled sputtering, bogging, surging, farting, and burping.

I now only realized the issues everyone here on the 4m were concerned about. Yes it sucks but there were no refunds offered from the dealership.

So after talking to Jim at Dynotech he explained his dyno tested maps for the 800 CFI not only would fix the drivability issues but make 10-15 additional hp with no other modifications.

Now I thought about this overnight and ordered the (PCV) Power Commander Five for $369 plus shipping and his 1 year subscription to his website for no additional charge map down loads for the PCV and all of his posted dyno results and tests.

So I installed the PCV and yes my sled ran better then ever and all of the issues were resolved. Yes I had to spend just under $400 for my sled to run right but now it rocked. Jims supplied map with the PCV is the best money I have ever spent on any sled mod since it fixed Polaris's problem and made the sled have the power it was suppose to have to start with from polaris.

Before I got the power commander I all ready thought the sled needed a pipe or can! I read all the posts and found Polaris declining warranty coverage for guys with pipes who had melt downs so I went with a can I could change out quick if i had a warranty claim. Yes I installed a MBRP and there website says it adds 2hp and weighs 10 pounds less. It did sound better but it lost 2-3 hp on the dyno and saved 7 pounds. MBRP page link below for reference

http://www.mbrp.com/index.php?page=products&make=POLARIS&model=Dragon / RMK / 800&year=2009

I know you all have read and heard my opinion on the Power Commander Five but I wanted to clear up a few misconceptions now. I recently read a post that a VR that failed and had taken out the ECU and also did damage the PCV. So new buyers beware because previously we had believed that the pcv would remain damage free if this happened. This may not be warrantable and I will update everyone when I see one rejected or as Jim updates us from Dynotech?

Ok now for the results for the results from the dyno are all listed below:

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02/10/2010

OK, I spent half the afternoon at BMP Bikeman Performance in Osceola WI. I brought my stock D8 with the MBRP pipe installed and the PCV with Dynotechs map. All of the dyno time was done by Joe Strubb and he was a top notice tech & tuner. All of the test combinations and results are posted below.

Please remember this sled had the fall update done by Polaris a few months ago and only has 14 miles on it. The sled has the orignal break in tank of mixed fuel in it as well. Yes the ethanol wires were plugged in. I have included the dyno charts below with some pics. We made 18 pulls in total with changes as we went. I have not scanned all of the dyno result sheets since there were many changes that did not do anything worth reporting.

1. The 1st pull was stock tuning with MBRP can that we welded a O2 bung onto it for af readings. The results peaked at 136.9 hp at 7400 rpm

2. The 2nd pull was stock tuning with MBRP can as listed above. The results increased and peaked at 137.8 hp at 7600 rpm

3. The 3rd pull was stock tuning with MBRP can as listed above. The results slightly decreased and peaked at 137.6 hp at 7600 rpm

4. The 4th pull was stock tuning with stock can. The results increased and peaked at 138.8 hp at 7700 & 7900 rpm

5. The 5th pull was stock tuning with stock can. The results increased and peaked at 139.7 hp at 8000 rpm

6. The 6th pull was stock tuning with stock can. The results were the same as pull 5.

7. The 7th pull was stock tuning with BMP can. The results decreased and peaked at 139.6 hp at 7600 rpm

8. The 8th pull was stock tuning with BMP can decreased slightly from pull number 7

9. The 9th pull was no longer stock tuning but with the PCV power commander 5 with dynotech Jims fall map tuning with BMP can. The results increased and peaked at 147.5 hp at 7900 rpm

10. The 10th pull was with the PCV power commander 5 with dynotech Jims fall map tuning with BMP can. The results decreased and peaked at 146.8 hp at 7900 rpm

11. The 11th pull was with the PCV power commander 5 with dynotech Jims fall map tuning with stock Polaris can. The results increased and peaked at 148.9 hp at 7900 rpm

12. The 12th pull was with the PCV power commander 5 with dynotech Jims fall map tuning with stock Polaris can. The results decreased and peaked at 148.2 hp at 7900 rpm

13. The 13th pull was with the PCV power commander 5 with BMP's fall map tuning with there BMP single Pipe and stock Polaris can. The results increased and peaked at 150.9 hp at 8200 rpm

14. The 14th pull was the same results as pull 13 with no results with small pcv map changes.

15. The 15th pull was all most the same results as pull 13 & 14 but was down 0.2 hp to 150.7 hp at a higher 8400 rpms. No other changes.

16. The 16th pull we changed back to the BMP can, PCV with BMP fall program with their pipe and the results decreased down to 149.1 at 8400 rpm.

17. The 17th pull with slight pcv map changes the power decreased down to 147.8 at 8200 rpms. No other changes were made.

18. The 18th or last pull with slight mods to the BMP map for the PCV where we leaned it out on the top with BMP Pipe and stock Polaris can we had the last increase of 151.5 hp at 8400 rpm.

We confirmed many conclusions during the dyno session. The first is that Jim's maps from Dynotech are pretty good, safe and relaible. We also confirmed what Jim has told me many times that most of the cans are too free flowing or loose and lose power but safe weight.

As for Bikemans Pipe mod claims of adding up to 12 hp to a stock pipe on a stock sled has not so far proven to be true! They do report some good gains but in general it is few and far between but the most is gained on a stock sled with out a pcv.

The BMP single pipe in this case did add about hp with tuning help from the pcv but made the power band much broader, longer, and peaked higher with more usable power then the stock pipe with jims map. The pipe and tuning made about 4 hp more.

I was impressed with Bikeman Performance and did buy one of there ceramic coated pipes. I am happy that my sled is dialed in but thought I might be closer to 160 hp then the end result of about 151.5 hp? My sled still needs to break in so maybe it will increase another 2-3 hp but I will not see 8-9 hp.

02/10/2010 in WI was a good day for dyno testing & tuning since the air density readings were ideal. Testing the sled stock on the dyno is scary lean.

The PCV with Jim's tune sure brings the sled to safe air fuel ratio levels and the power on the top helps too. I would encourage any one who owns a Polaris 800 CFi with or with out the bog, lean, surge issues to save some time and down time costs and buy a PCV it is worth the money for the safety and power IMO.

 

[R44guy]

Added Additional Pictures

Please see the additonal Dyno results and pics. This Dyno is slightly newer then Jim's at Dynotech but the results appear to be close.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[R44guy]

Pictures Continued

Ok Last Pictures

 

[RamrodAK1]

Thank you for your post. I do have a PC5 and it sure changed my sled for the best. I cannot believe 139 horsepower. That is horrible.

 

[Cumminszhere]

Liquid Tide

I am toying with the idea of picking up a leftover D8. The more I read about it the less I like it.


Your Tide detergent picture is hilarious!

 

[diamonddave]

)(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*()

Lord help you if you recommend one of these things and or the SLP map.

 

[R44guy]

)(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*()

Lord help you if you recommend one of these things and or the SLP map.

diamonddave, did you have a bad expierence with the PCV, SLP map, or just the Polaris 800 CFI?

 

[Trenchmaster]

I have an 08 D8 with the update, SLP pipe set, air horn and clutching. It ran OK after the update but it was way to lean, and ran very hot in low snow conditions, even with the scratchers down. I installed a PC111 with Dynotechs mapping and the sled feels much better and the coolant temp never gets above 130 now. I would recommend this upgrade to anyone with one of these sleds.

 

[Clarke673]

there are few people who are as hard on a sled as i am. I am not overly joyful about my PCV. It is still pig rich, doesn't idle well, and a few other problems.


Tomorrow i will pull my valves and clean them, if thats not it, then i am thinking that my oiler is giving me WAY to much. It is not nessisarily the PCV ( it did make a difference) just it didn't feel like a 10 HP difference. Also, i need to drop my weights in my clutches.

What are you guys running for clutch set ups? I want to drop my weights and go with a harder helix.

 

[rmk727]

A little info on D7's and 8s that start having idleing issues or tend to foul plugs at start up even w/ PCV remove airbox and clean the butterflys on the throttle bodies then seal your airbox w./ silacone, lastly set the tps with a multimeter, this is a yearly must and really helps the performance

 

[R44guy]

IownU, IMO you may have some other issue with your sled that it is pig rich. Like rmk727 said in his post you may have something else going on like a tps that needs to be recalibrated. If anything depending on the map your sled should run leaner in the mid range just depending on what map has been programmed in your pcv. I did not need to change my clutch weights rpm wise but the clutch set from Carls Cycle has good results with there helix.

 

[Daggerboat]

Good info R44guy...I don't have any dyno or CFI experience but I have a question about the lean stock fuel map...All these dyno runs are at full throttle right ? The leanest part of the map is at part throttle,at midrange RPM ,under light loads...So my question to the guys that have spent time on the dyno with CFI's would be , can you identify an RPM/throttle position that looks the leanest or is there just too many variable inputs to the ECU to make any definite assumptions , Thanks

 

[R44guy]

Good info R44guy...I don't have any dyno or CFI experience but I have a question about the lean stock fuel map...All these dyno runs are at full throttle right ? The leanest part of the map is at part throttle,at midrange RPM ,under light loads...So my question to the guys that have spent time on the dyno with CFI's would be , can you identify an RPM/throttle position that looks the leanest or is there just too many variable inputs to the ECU to make any definite assumptions , Thanks

Daggerboat, That is a good question, all though all the power is made at higher rpms on the dyno, the pulls start out slow and controlled and as the rpm climbs you add more throttlre. The 800 cfi is lean under light to med. loads starting out around 4700 rpm up thru 6200 and it slowly gets richer until it gets pig rich stock at about 7300 rpms with the stock map.

With the pcv map options you add or minus fuel at what ever rpms you like. Most importantly this is a tuning tool more so then anything else and it is well worth the money in opinion but it wont fix things on a improperly running sled motor. Thanks for your input.

 

[aebsledder]

there are few people who are as hard on a sled as i am. I am not overly joyful about my PCV. It is still pig rich, doesn't idle well, and a few other problems.


Tomorrow i will pull my valves and clean them, if thats not it, then i am thinking that my oiler is giving me WAY to much. It is not nessisarily the PCV ( it did make a difference) just it didn't feel like a 10 HP difference. Also, i need to drop my weights in my clutches.

What are you guys running for clutch set ups? I want to drop my weights and go with a harder helix.

I think that the Power commander may be more of a reliability mod for the higher altitude riders. Seems like people that have experienced the most gain are riding at much lower elevations. I ride with an 08 D8 with the PC3 and slp's map and ours perform almost identical. I might plug his into mine and see if it makes a difference. So far I am not sold.

 

[Clarke673]

IownU, IMO you may have some other issue with your sled that it is pig rich. Like rmk727 said in his post you may have something else going on like a tps that needs to be recalibrated. If anything depending on the map your sled should run leaner in the mid range just depending on what map has been programmed in your pcv. I did not need to change my clutch weights rpm wise but the clutch set from Carls Cycle has good results with there helix.

I had my dealer check my TPS when he installed my new top end about a month ago. Since then i have put on almost 700 miles and today was the worst!

I had NO BACK SHIFT, and i was pulling 6700 RPM while climbing......Both my belts are getting heavily glazed as well.

Words can not describe how mad i was. I dragged my girlfriend to the top of a mountain so she could get pics of me doing a 60 foot jump on my dragon and it would about pitch me over the bars when i hit the beginning of the jump. Very sad in the performance of the sled. I am thinking about just robbing the front suspension to get my IQR back on the snow and probably putting the D8 in the garage till summer.

 

[TRS]

Not to change the post, but keep an eye on the mag side motor strap. Lost them on two of our sleds in the last week ('09 D8s). They are breaking where the front crank case mounting bolt goes through the motor strap. I know of two more that have broken. I hope Brad can make a plate.

 

[diamonddave]

diamonddave, did you have a bad expierence with the PCV, SLP map, or just the Polaris 800 CFI?

No, I was being sarcastic. Very happy with mine.

 

[jakobj]

Does anyone know if the Dynotech map "DTRD8latejan2010flashSLP" is made for the original 2010flash or the later 14 jan flash?

Does it work for both flashes?

 

[crashnbash]

I believe the map you have listed is for the jan 14 flash. The 2010 update flash and the jan 14 flash each have their own map, and shouldn't be swapped or the sled may not run right.

 

[jg442]

I love my pcv on my 08 dragon RMK. Money well spent. Don't care what the dyno says, I can feel the extra power!