Cutler vs Boondocker

[mmsports]

Turbo kits

There is not a bad kit on the market they all work period. Its all about what you want and support. The only reason kits do not work is set up and tuning. From the very beginning of turbo's one company would say that the BD box does not work and I have heard BD people say the Dolbeck box doers not work. Well it could not be further from the truth. I use to just use BD turbo's until they required me to run a inter cooler to run over 11.5 of boost in 09 I went through 6 pistons trying to get the kit to run 12-14lb of boost with out an inter cooler. So the next year I made a cometment to run the dolbeck box. I ran a push and a OVS they both ran flawless. I also did some BD pumps gas kits and they worked fine but that is when I made my decision to no longer do BD race gas kits. I loved his pre ADA box for tune ablity and consistency and not a huge fan of ADA but it works if you want an inter cooler. The Dolbeck box is good but only as good as the pre tune program and the person tuning the box. Every one has good kits.

The biggest thing for me is support from my suppliers and fairness.

BD will sell and set anyone up as dealers so as far as a dealer my biggest competition selling BD was them.

Twisted does his own thing and really has no need for local dealers. I do hand it to Shane you call he answers the phone and cares about customer service.


OVS same thing as Twisted and I appreciate all they do for the industry and helpfulness no matter who's kit you are running.

Push well love the kit but last year ken got his but kicked and kind of dropped the ball as far as customer service goes.So a couple of us have teamed up to help and he and we have committed to set up a dealer exclusive dealership that know what they are doing and that will service there customers. He has committed to us to sell through his dealers and just support them. So we want to install your kit and make sure you are happy and if your not then it is our job to make sure this happens. If you local dealer does not do it then we the distributors will through the dealer just like cat,poo,or ski doo would. Just so you know we will be setting up dealers that know the turbo world and have good customer service rep.

 

[vdog0531]

Comparing a Cutler stage 2 to a BD pump gas is like comparing an M7 to an m1000. Both are great units assuming you don't get a gremlin, but the cutler stage 2 we run at 15psi whereas the pump gas BD I've heard of people pushing them to 9.5ish. No comparison.

Our stage 2 has been pull & go for two seasons, it's been jumped, dropped, crashed, raced in the hillclimb circuit... and it's just been a creampuff.

The BD is a good setup, but imo, not in the same class as the cutler.

Also, when cutler upgrades, he helps you out & takes care of you. I hear in this thread that people say BD is good, maybe they've gotten way better in the last year & 1/2 since I had their products, but the service also was not in the same class as what I've received from Dale.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the BD, I just think you'd have A REALLY big grin with the stage 2!!!

thats not really comparing "pump gas" to "pump gas" but it is a good point to bring up that the cutlers stage 2 has more room to grow. good post!

Vernon

 

[backcountryislife]

thats not really comparing "pump gas" to "pump gas" but it is a good point to bring up that the cutlers stage 2 has more room to grow. good post!

Vernon

That's the comparison that the OP started with... if he was comparing pump to pump I'd have a bit less bias, the BD pump gas kit does a good job, just not enough holy crap for me.

 

[M8Chris]

sorry I put Cutlers stage 2 pump... I was planning on running pump with being able to turn up the boost and add some race gas. I'm going with the boondockers kit.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

One thing I know is BD makes a kit and it works, most of the time. Cutler makes anything and it is above and beyond. I have not seen a cutler kit run but would take it any day over the bd. Bd has just done some stupid stuff like installing the F/P regulator boost line with a Zip tie in the tank and the line was not quality line either and started to swell. Just started riding and the line blow off, luckily I had a light to see in the tank just enough to figure it out and not ruin a day. As for the 2010 m8 it was all over the place sometime run sometimes not, Last I heard they had a new wiring harness that got its power form a new source, they figured that the injectors would run low on power and lean out throwing the det sensor and dumbing down the power. So after a year of running the kit they have a fix. But when it ran it was sweet, 8 lbs would walk on a apex on 14lbs. Also my buddy put a bd pg on his 09 m1000 I'm not sure what it cost but by the time the dealer got it tuned in and different clutching that worked it cost $7,000+ to add to it, it has had tuning problems as well a few times dieing at the top of the hill and once rolling back down, we thing it may be the issue with running out of power on the injectors as it was only on 6lbs with 2 gal of race the egts where around 1200*. It didn't hurt anything engine wise but after seeing and hearing about these other kits I'm sure not sold on bd. Kinda reminds me of polaris and ski-doo just throwing out stuff that isn't proven. But like everyone says go with the one that will get you the most support.

 

[JHG]

Cutler makes a great product, this post isn't saying that he doesn't. Dale offers awesome customer service and I own several of his products. In fact he did all the clutching on my current sled. If I were buying a new kit today, I would seriously consider his stage III kit. There are other great kits on the market like OVS and Twisted but they are not what the op is asking about. I'll leave the facts of the Cutler Kit to the Cutler Kit owners and operators like BCIL and others on this thread. I will say that I spent some time with Dale again this last weekend and he is a really nice guy, every time I'm around him I'm amazed at the amount of knowledge he possesses about sleds. He knows more about snowmobiles then even the best snowest snowmobile guru....I know, its hard to believe, but its true.

Here's a couple Boondocker facts from someone that actually owns a Boondocker Kit.

The fuel pressure regulator setup has NO zip ties, you press fit a copper fitting on your stock fuel pump and install a poly line, (the same type of line that some commercial trucks use). The line runs boost pressure from the airbox to the fuel pressure regulator making a rising rate regulator out of the stock one.
Boondocker has also pushed the industry and developed new technology that has made the sled easier to tune. ADA is a tremendous step forward for the average rider and tuner. Their oil tank design is one of the best in the industry, it doesn't leak and blow smoke when the sled is turned over. Their new oil pump is efficient and reliable, they have engineered and built their own driver boards for it. The EBC works as advertised and has the ability to do much more than it's currently doing, including integrating an A/F gauge. Boondocker has worked with engineers in house and at Cat to reduce the voltage/amperage their products demand, they engineered an electronic boost controller that works on the M8 when testing proved the AEM trueboost pulled a lot of power and they felt it wasn't good for the sleds electrical system. The simple tuner programming in the fuel controller is just that, very simple. The box also has two additional modes that will allow you to change things you would need to be an electrical engineer to understand if you chose to use those modes. The fuel booster boards are available to boost the stock fuel pump by increasing voltage to the pump making a race gas upgrade more affordable and easy to install. They have made the entire kit plug and play with automotive connectors. The new Pro-Ride kit goes on in 2 hours and the cat would be close to that if you didn't have to drop the belly pan to install the coolant lines. The kit comes mostly assembled in the box. The exhaust tunnel dump is now being copied by many in the industry and rapidly becoming the industry standard. Both kits are awesome, and if you talk to the people that actually own them you will hear great things about both of them, you will be more than happy either way you go.

 

[mmsports]

MMM and wow

They were not the first to do tunnel dump and they did not come up with it but OK. And preassembled is that something they just started since the beginning of last year?


I did not hear anything bad being said about CPC OR BD.

. The exhaust tunnel dump is now being copied by many in the industry and rapidly becoming the industry standard. Both kits are awesome, and if you talk to the people that actually own them you will hear great things about both of them, you will be more than happy either way you go.

 

[Woody67]

I installed a last years BD pump kit on a 2010 M8 HCR and rode it about 700 miles. It was pull and go and ran flawless all year. Not finicky at all.

Just wanted to clarify that especially for the OP as he has the 2010 year model and it has been mentioned that they are not as friendly as the previous years.

And way faster on the same PSI than non HO models.

 

[Woody67]

They were not the first to do tunnel dump and they did not come up with it but OK. And preassembled is that something they just started since the beginning of last year?


I did not hear anything bad being said about CPC OR BD.

Preassembly of the turbo and oil tank assy is new this year as is all plug and play wiring so no cutting of stock harness.

IMO install time is still considerable as it takes time to cut the footrest and tunnel for the muffler and cut and weld the turbo stinger on.

 

[knzee]

I think the only downfall of the 2010 on boost is the lightweight pistons. 600 miles on 12lbs without intercooler and needed replaced. When I ordered new it was recomended to go with the 09 oem pistons due to a lot of failures on boost.

I installed a last years BD pump kit on a 2010 M8 HCR and rode it about 700 miles. It was pull and go and ran flawless all year. Not finicky at all.

Just wanted to clarify that especially for the OP as he has the 2010 year model and it has been mentioned that they are not as friendly as the previous years.

And way faster on the same PSI than non HO models.

 

[JHG]

They were not the first to do tunnel dump and they did not come up with it but OK. And preassembled is that something they just started since the beginning of last year?

The BD kit I got last year had to have the turbo indexed and installed on the oil tank, and the oil pump hooked to the top of turbo, as well as having to install the drain on the bottom of the turbo and install the dipstick on the oil tank, I had to put the injectors in the intercooler, and install the fuel rail. This year, I took the oil tank with the turbo on it, oil pump hooked up and put it on the sled, no indexing, installing pumps, drains or any of the above. Same goes for the intercooler.

Rocky was experimenting with different styles of tunnel dumping exhaust for along time, he even had a setup with dual exhaust. Remember when they dumped it in front of the drivers, far from perfect but still the beginning of the tunnel dump....hell, that stuff was still going on when rasmussen owned a dealership in Idaho.

I did not hear anything bad being said about CPC OR BD.

Your kidding right? Take the blinders off man. Substitute Mountain Magic Sports everywhere you see BD in the statements below then say that no one is speaking negatively about your shop.

One thing I know is BD makes a kit and it works, most of the time.

I have not seen a cutler kit run but would take it any day over the bd

Bd has just done some stupid stuff

As for the 2010 m8 it was all over the place sometime run sometimes not

I'm sure not sold on bd. Kinda reminds me of polaris and ski-doo just throwing out stuff that isn't proven.

 

[JHG]

IMO install time is still considerable as it takes time to cut the footrest and tunnel for the muffler and cut and weld the turbo stinger on.

Use a 4" hole saw that is as close to the top and outside edge of the foot rest as you can get it, then use a 2 3/4" hole saw resting in the v formed inside the footwell, both holes will be perfect and the pipe will slide in with no additional trimming. Saves a ton of time and keeps the pipe from getting scratched up.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The ZIP TIE was on a RTR built by BD, a 09. I'm sure their are lots of bd kits that work, and I am all about turbos so good job BD. Why do you think I said use a dealer, all kits need a little something, dealer usually know what they need.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The ZIP TIE was on a RTR built by BD, a 09. I'm sure their are lots of bd kits that work, and I am all about turbos so good job BD. Why do you think I said use a dealer, all kits need a little something, dealers usually know what they need. Just fair warning.

 

[mmsports]

First For me

Thats the first I heard that.

I think the only downfall of the 2010 on boost is the lightweight pistons. 600 miles on 12lbs without intercooler and needed replaced. When I ordered new it was recomended to go with the 09 oem pistons due to a lot of failures on boost.

 

[mmsports]

Ya I rode it before Bret even had a chance to ride it when Brad Story did it to Bret M 1000 in the beginning of 08 snow year and it took me at total of 2 minutes to plug it off and find that it would not work, and just for the record that was two years after I bought it from Bret . But even before that the Yamaha guy's were doing it.

You know brad Built the first sled for BD Turbo for 2 strokes developed his first turbo worked with him to get it working did the first TD on the turbo he ought to get a little credit sense Rocky is getting all the $$$ from it.

Thanks Brad for helping start the two stroke turbo at BD and Gar for doing it for 10 year before that.

. Same goes for the intercooler. Rocky was experimenting with different styles of tunnel dumping exhaust for along time, he even had a setup with dual exhaust. Remember when they dumped it in front of the drivers, far from perfect but still the beginning of the tunnel dump....hell, that stuff was still going on when rasmussen owned a dealership in Idaho.

.


Brets first turbo was in 07 at the mid or end of that year. I remember his comments in the beginning of that year how he would never own one because of previous experiences.

 

[mmsports]

Well if you put it that way I guess you are right that statement would bother me mainly because that would never be my goal would to do things half way or to put a product out that has not been tested. Thats the main reason I do what I do. Last year I did not sell one kit with the EBC I told them that when they get it out and it works then buy it but I will not install it until i know it works.You know I did the same thing with CPC's secondary kits RKT was out so I bout 10 from cpc and had to replace 15 of them so need less to say not a fan even after the fix still cost me lost of money and time.

I am sure I and well My shop has messed up we are not all perfect and I hope that if I or we have messed up that we fixed it

Your kidding right? Take the blinders off man. Substitute Mountain Magic Sports everywhere you see BD in the statements below then say that no one is speaking negatively about your shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoBoy1000
One thing I know is BD makes a kit and it works, most of the time.

I have not seen a cutler kit run but would take it any day over the bd

Bd has just done some stupid stuff

As for the 2010 m8 it was all over the place sometime run sometimes not

I'm sure not sold on bd. Kinda reminds me of polaris and ski-doo just throwing out stuff that isn't proven.

 

[boosted1]

Cutler vs BD

I have a CPC stage 3 kit, its REALLY hard to believe customer service can get better than Dale at CPC, if you open the hood on a CPC kit and BD kit, you will simply know why I chose the CPC, its like comparing a cavalier to a corvette! lol

B

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I have a CPC stage 3 kit, its REALLY hard to believe customer service can get better than Dale at CPC, if you open the hood on a CPC kit and BD kit, you will simply know why I chose the CPC, its like comparing a cavalier to a corvette! lol

B

LOL

You know gm took a 03 cavalier installed twin hair dryers and short stroked the engine to a 2.0L and pushed up to 750hp. Still want to compare.

 

[mynewuseddoo]

Yeah, I'm running the CPC stage 2 and looking under the hood between it and the boondocker kit says it all. I was going to buy the BD kit last year but after seeing the two kits side by side, the fit and finish on the CPC is leaps and bounds nicer than BD. Cutler's kit is all plug and play. The CPC fuel pump set up is better. I am not a fan of the EBC. Cold air intake.......I likey and at the same psi the CPC kit was pulling harder than the BD kit to the tune of about a 2 psi increase needed by the BD kit to stay neck and neck with Cutlers kit. A friend of mine is doing the boondocker kit in his M8 and was told by them that running at 8 psi or higher would require 4 injectors. I am at 9 psi with a lot of room left on my attitude controller and fuel pressure reg. I have discussed the intercooler topic with Dale over the phone and he explained at what point intercoolers become necessary and I am thinking that 80%+ of turbo owners on here are running one unnecessarily. I'm not saying that boondocker's kit doesn't work or that it is crap, just that, IMO Cutler's kit with his custom components is thought out, works better, and is built better; i.e. fuel pump etc.... Even the CPC stage 3 full race kit doesn't need to run an intercooler and it's good to 18 psi. 9 psi is good for me though. It pulls like a freight train and gets the adrenalin pumping just fine

All this being said, the BD guys will say the opposite I'm sure. If you can, look at the kits side by side and make your decision. Luckily I was fortunate to have that opportunity. If I had gone the BD route, as I had originally planned, I would have still had fun, obviously, but would have been kicking my self for not doing the extra research into other kit MFG's. Out of the big four for quality/fit and finish I would have to say CPC, Twisted, OVS, and BD. JMO though. And I'm not saying the other guys kits don't work, just making that clear.