crystal springs sno park

[yammadog]

NOPE NOT hostile, just sick of those naysayers who haven't offered positive ideas or solutions realistically within reach.

Ok, my misunderstanding. I had to look back at your 5 posts to see if you had offered any help in the situation as part of the 4m, I didn't see any, but maybe you live up there and are the beneficiary to this firehouse, so you're in tune with what's going on and offering solutions on site....

 

[sledn4evr]

Ok, my misunderstanding. I had to look back at your 5 posts to see if you had offered any help in the situation as part of the 4m, I didn't see any, but maybe you live up there and are the beneficiary to this firehouse, so you're in tune with what's going on and offering solutions on site....

Quite frankly the reason for only 5 posts is, I joined this forum because of this issue only. I don't post as I have a life, and find this kind of idol chit chat ridiculous. I HAVE gone to ALL of the prior meetings to hear what the Fire District, Forest Service, DNR and State Parks have had to say and had a chance to listen to those involved. Until this last meeting the fire district held, none or very little of the general public showed up. Seems that they would rather get their information from a bunch of gossipy old ladies then out of the mouths of those who are truly informed.

 

[Ice Cap]

Sldn4evr,
How did you find out about all the prior meetings?
Since I HAVE a life I don't have the time to spend searching out when meeting are going to be held.
I think there would have been more participation by the general public if we would have known when and were to meet.

BTW, welcome to the forum

 

[sledn4evr]

Sldn4evr,
How did you find out about all the prior meetings?
Since I HAVE a life I don't have the time to spend searching out when meeting are going to be held.
I think there would have been more participation by the general public if we would have known when and were to meet.

BTW, welcome to the forum

Ice Cap,
Sorry didn't mean because you are a member of this forum or any other forum for that matter meant you didn't have a life. Since the showing of this issue on the Seattle and Yakima television stations we have been eagerly awaiting the outcome, it seems that each year more and more land is taken from the snowmobilers. We are sick of it like everyone else but we have become involved with the parties in question. All agencies included post upcoming agendas on their bulletin boards for the next meeting.
Understandably, people cannot attend every meeting. This issue came up as a dispute between the Fire dept. and the Forest Service, it never before was an issue with snowmobiles, but bad information (a lot given on this forum and a lot given through the media (we think it was the FS's idea to cause a stir within the sledding community). SINCE WHEN DID THE FS EVER TAKE THE SNOWMOBILERS BEST INTERESTS AND CONCERNS IN MIND? With these different stories going around the rumor mill it is hard to figure who is telling the truth or not but there was one person on this forum that kept trying to get it out. The notion that I am a beneficiary for this firehouse is exactly the attitude that I am talking about and sick of. It seems WE ALL are beneficiaries if we partake in ANY activity within Fire District #8's boundaries, this include traveling through. Fire house's JUST don't house equipment that extinguish fires. Just ask the families of the two men last year that had heart attacks in the Crystal Spring parking lot after sledding all day. Like I said, we utilize this area frequently in the winter and I am glad the good folks that belong to that district are willing to put their lives on the line so we all can enjoy what the area has to offer. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[chief 8101]

Dan,

If you have some concerns regarding something related to the fire district etc, please post them and let's get the things figured out. I know that you have supported the fire district in the past on our winter rescue program.

I can't guarantee that I can answer all the questions raised, but I'll give it a good shot.

 

[Ice Cap]

Sledn4evr,
It sounds like you keep up to date on local meetings.
Any chance you could post info. on upcoming meetings when you hear about them?

 

[sledn4evr]

Sledn4evr,
It sounds like you keep up to date on local meetings.
Any chance you could post info. on upcoming meetings when you hear about them?

Would be happy to.

 

[Ice Cap]

The Crystal Springs snow park situation is not really resolved at this point.

The Crystal Springs snow park situation is not really resolved at this point.

The agreement that was reached depends on several things happening and it is looking unlikely that all will happen.

The fire department needs electricity run to the building that they have agreed to use. This is one of the buildings that the groomer has been using. If they don't have electricity run to the building in approx. 30 days then the agreement is off and they want to proceed with condemnation to get control of the 54 road and it will be plowed.

The forest service doesn't want this going to court as it will be a test case on the rights of property owners that buy property without maintained winter access. If the property owner wins then it sets a precedent that will be used by every other private property owner in the entire U.S. and that would have dire consequences for winter recreation in this country.

The big problem is that $10,000.00 is needed to run the electricity. Everyone is looking for the money to do this but they all keep coming back empty handed!

Another issue is that the guy that has had the Stampede grooming contract and has been using the buildings is being kicked out of the smaller building that the fire department wants. They have put lots of time and money into that building to make it suit their needs. Snowmobile club or clubs have also donated time and money for insulation, lights etc. and this is all being taken over by the fire dept.

There is not just a possibility that the road will be plowed but it is possible that Crystal springs could be completely shut down for the winter. I don't know how likely that scenario is but the total shutdown was mentioned at the meeting last night.

 

[MOB]

There is not just a possibility that the road will be plowed but it is possible that Crystal springs could be completely shut down for the winter. I don't know how likely that scenario is but the total shutdown was mentioned at the meeting last night.

Thanks for the summary Ice...I'm unclear at how any of this leads to the potential shutdown of the entire park...sounds like major overreaction.

If that road is plowed, why wouldn't they just revise snowmobile access through some other ingress/egress point in that lot?...how tough is it? - my understanding is it used to be that way until they segregated dog sleds and skinny skiers parking/access to the southwest corner.

My understanding is that the Price Creek snowpark will be closed to 'store supplies' for the I-90 widening project...why storing anything there over winter is necessary/prudent I don't know...

This would leave ONLY Gold Creek as a snowpark...not much room at all.

The walls seem to be closing in from multiple directions/agendas...

 

[winter brew]

At one time we could use the Price creek EAST bound as a sno-park, then there was also a sno-park on the NORTH side of the Stampede exit by the freeway. Perhaps between those 2 areas, GC and Kachess there is adequate parking?
How much of the road would be plowed? Is the actual parking area in jeopardy or just a section of road?

 

[chief 8101]

The Crystal Springs snow park situation is not really resolved at this point.

The agreement that was reached depends on several things happening and it is looking unlikely that all will happen.

The fire department needs electricity run to the building that they have agreed to use. This is one of the buildings that the groomer has been using. If they don't have electricity run to the building in approx. 30 days then the agreement is off and they want to proceed with condemnation to get control of the 54 road and it will be plowed.

The forest service doesn't want this going to court as it will be a test case on the rights of property owners that buy property without maintained winter access. If the property owner wins then it sets a precedent that will be used by every other private property owner in the entire U.S. and that would have dire consequences for winter recreation in this country.

The big problem is that $10,000.00 is needed to run the electricity. Everyone is looking for the money to do this but they all keep coming back empty handed!

Another issue is that the guy that has had the Stampede grooming contract and has been using the buildings is being kicked out of the smaller building that the fire department wants. They have put lots of time and money into that building to make it suit their needs. Snowmobile club or clubs have also donated time and money for insulation, lights etc. and this is all being taken over by the fire dept.

There is not just a possibility that the road will be plowed but it is possible that Crystal springs could be completely shut down for the winter. I don't know how likely that scenario is but the total shutdown was mentioned at the meeting last night.

Wow, it was nice making it a couple of weeks without the rumor mill running rampant, nice to see that it is up and going at full strength plus again.

Not sure who was spewing this information at the groomer's meeting last night, but it was the first that I heard of it. I would think that I would know a lot of this stuff since I am the fire chief up there.

True that things are moving slower than we had wanted, and the running of the power is going to cost a lot more than initially thought and everyone is trying to work out how to pay for it, but why on earth would the entire crystal springs sno park be closed this winter? If it was, it would have nothing to do with the fire dept.

It is not that the fire dept "wanted" the small groomer garage, that is what was offerred by the USFS and state parks as being available as we were told that the groomer would not be using it anymore and would be only using the big new building.

It would be nice if instead of spreading wild rumors, people would contact someone actually directly involved in this issue and find out some facts.

As I see it now, worst case scenerio would be that the road would be plowed on a temporary basis until the power issue is resolved. This is the same specifications on plowing that were discussed in the open public meeting.

I guess it all depends on how a person looks at the weather forcast in relation to this issue and snowmobiling in general, but it looks like the weather forcast is for no snow with warm rainy weather in the near future anyways so it all may be a mute point for the time being.

 

[ruffryder]

Wow, it was nice making it a couple of weeks without the rumor mill running rampant, nice to see that it is up and going at full strength plus again.

Not sure who was spewing this information at the groomer's meeting last night, but it was the first that I heard of it. I would think that I would know a lot of this stuff since I am the fire chief up there.

The people spewing are those on the grooming council and those from the FS.....

 

[chief 8101]

I have forwarded all of the information posted by Ice Cap to the parties involved at the Fire Dept, State Parks and USFS. We'll see what we get for answers. Not sure who from the USFS was giving out this information or if they are even involved in the day to day discussions on the matter, but no one on the grooming council is directly involved in those discussions.

I would be interested in having the names of those passing out this information to see if they are operating on first hand info or rumors.

 

[ruffryder]

Thanks for the summary Ice...I'm unclear at how any of this leads to the potential shutdown of the entire park...sounds like major overreaction.

Not an overreaction... this came from the fs rep(not exactly sure which land management group) that was there. He was very informed about what was going on from his perspective and issues that they are seeing.

The problem as it is stated is that there are a large amount of people buying and building on lands far out on the roads (co-managed). The people buy and then build on those lots knowing that there would be no winter access. The problem arises when they want winter access. If this issue were to go to court for the fire station to get winter access and they got it. It would set a precedent for others to sue and get winter access on other roads. It should be noted that there is private property behind many snowparks. If these roads were now able to have winter access, it would make it very difficult from a winter user standpoint. Again, this is a summary of what was told at the meeting, my own personal knowledge is very limited on the subject.

 

[Ice Cap]

Wow, it was nice making it a couple of weeks without the rumor mill running rampant, nice to see that it is up and going at full strength plus again.

Not sure who was spewing this information at the groomer's meeting last night, but it was the first that I heard of it. I would think that I would know a lot of this stuff since I am the fire chief up there.

Chief,
I would also think that you would know this stuff and I am shocked that you don't. Everybody knew that this issue was going to be discussed at last nights meeting. Why weren't you there?

True that things are moving slower than we had wanted, and the running of the power is going to cost a lot more than initially thought and everyone is trying to work out how to pay for it, but why on earth would the entire crystal springs sno park be closed this winter? If it was, it would have nothing to do with the fire dept.

Chief,
It was stated last night that if power isn't run in time for winter then the small shed wouldn't be usable for the fire department. We all know that you need a heated building to keep your equipment from ending up with frozen water in the tanks. With that said you would be back in your new building and would most likely proceed with the condemnation of the road 5400 easement. Is this true or false? The snow park wouldn't be closed but the road 5400 access could be and that would render the snow park useless!

It is not that the fire dept "wanted" the small groomer garage, that is what was offerred by the USFS and state parks as being available as we were told that the groomer would not be using it anymore and would be only using the big new building.

Chief,
Last night I was told that the fire dept. wanted the small building because it was already wired, insulated and has lights. Are you denying this Chief?

It would be nice if instead of spreading wild rumors, people would contact someone actually directly involved in this issue and find out some facts.

Chief,
Are you saying we should all take every word you say as gospel?
I think a better route is to get information from more than one person that is involved.

As I see it now, worst case scenerio would be that the road would be plowed on a temporary basis until the power issue is resolved. This is the same specifications on plowing that were discussed in the open public meeting.

Chief,
Why not go back to the way it was last winter until you folks hopefully get your grant to buid the new station? If someone buids a structure at a greater distance from a fire station than the Washington Survey and Rating Bureau says they can then I say tough chit for them. If people are that stupid then they can pay the higher insurance premium. They also have the option of installing a fire suppression system in their house if they want homeowners insurance and or a lower rate!

I guess it all depends on how a person looks at the weather forcast in relation to this issue and snowmobiling in general, but it looks like the weather forcast is for no snow with warm rainy weather in the near future anyways so it all may be a mute point for the time being.

Chief,
It may or may not be a moot point. The weather is only one issue. From the meeting last night it sounded like money to install the power is the bigger issue. If you really want to show some good will to your fellow man why not have your fire district pay for the installation of the power that is required to make this all work?

 

[MOB]

Quite frankly the reason for only 5 posts is, I joined this forum because of this issue only. I don't post as I have a life, and find this kind of idol chit chat ridiculous. I HAVE gone to ALL of the prior meetings to hear what the Fire District, Forest Service, DNR and State Parks have had to say and had a chance to listen to those involved. Until this last meeting the fire district held, none or very little of the general public showed up. Seems that they would rather get their information from a bunch of gossipy old ladies then out of the mouths of those who are truly informed.

...Aren't the groomers involved/informed?...If not then why not? from your post it was my understanding that folks were involving/inviting all factions..It appears the FS was at the groomer meeting, but not the Fire Dept. or the Homeowners?...

...Not sure who was spewing this information at the groomer's meeting last night, but it was the first that I heard of it. I would think that I would know a lot of this stuff since I am the fire chief up there.

...seems all concerned parties should arrange meetings inviting ALL factions...I recall some criticism relative to lack of participation at fire meetings...again...confused at why a collective participation did not occur.

...but why on earth would the entire crystal springs sno park be closed this winter? If it was, it would have nothing to do with the fire dept.

...I don't understand that at all either...

...It would be nice if instead of spreading wild rumors, people would contact someone actually directly involved in this issue and find out some facts.

...I would have thought the groomers were directly involved in this issue...

Not an overreaction... this came from the fs rep that was there. He was very informed about what was going on from a FS perspective.

...I see...and the FS is now determining what State Parks are to be closed ?...closure of the entire park is a dramatic over-reaction relative to this topic and WELL beyond the scope of these discussions/issues...but you think of it as you will.

...my own personal knowledge is very limited on the subject.....

recursion

 

[JETJOHNSO]

and the real problem is ???

A lot of senerios here, If they cant get power, and they go to court and get the road plowed , there will be a lot of very unhappy people. Most of the people who live up by the fire station Do Not Want the road plowed. Only a select few. If that road gets plowed than we have the big issue of all the skiers, snowshoers, snowmmbilers, Blind skiers, some home owners with their snocats,maybe some dog sled guys on the same 1/2 road. A huge liablility for the forest service that they do not want to undertake. Can you imagine putting all these useres on the same side of the road during a busy saturday or sunday,?? Give me a break, you dont think there is a problem there??? Yes, plowing the road will impact the area tremendously. An inconvience yes, moving the groomer into the new building but we'll deal with that, Both of those groomer sheds were built with NRTP MOTORIZED GRANT MONEY specificaly for the snowmobile groomers. All the wiring, lights, switches, gen panel, benches, basically everything in the smaller shed was bought and purchased soley by the snowmobile club and R&R grooming to store and work on the cats thru out the season. We all know the fire station should not have been built where it is. to late now, lets just work on getting them moved into the groomer shed, leave the road alone and all get along, I've watched this entire mess from the start. It's the LESSOR OF 2 EVILS. The forest service and state parks have tried their best to work this out. Although we're all not happy, it's a compromise we can live with. I've tried to stay neutral and stay out of this mess. Lets dig up some money get the power run to BOTH buildings and have a fun and safe winter. Hey this is just my take on the entire thing

 

[Ice Cap]

A lot of senerios here, If they cant get power, and they go to court and get the road plowed , there will be a lot of very unhappy people. Most of the people who live up by the fire station Do Not Want the road plowed. Only a select few. If that road gets plowed than we have the big issue of all the skiers, snowshoers, snowmmbilers, Blind skiers, some home owners with their snocats,maybe some dog sled guys on the same 1/2 road. A huge liablility for the forest service that they do not want to undertake. Can you imagine putting all these useres on the same side of the road during a busy saturday or sunday,?? Give me a break, you dont think there is a problem there??? Yes, plowing the road will impact the area tremendously. An inconvience yes, moving the groomer into the new building but we'll deal with that, Both of those groomer sheds were built with NRTP MOTORIZED GRANT MONEY specificaly for the snowmobile groomers. All the wiring, lights, switches, gen panel, benches, basically everything in the smaller shed was bought and purchased soley by the snowmobile club and R&R grooming to store and work on the cats thru out the season. We all know the fire station should not have been built where it is. to late now, lets just work on getting them moved into the groomer shed, leave the road alone and all get along, I've watched this entire mess from the start. It's the LESSOR OF 2 EVILS. The forest service and state parks have tried their best to work this out. Although we're all not happy, it's a compromise we can live with. I've tried to stay neutral and stay out of this mess. Lets dig up some money get the power run to BOTH buildings and have a fun and safe winter. Hey this is just my take on the entire thing

I agree but it pisses me off a little when there are people on her complaining of the rumor mill when they themselves haven't been completely open/honest about what has been going on.

The next thing that we will probably hear is that the Chief is friends with Mel. Wouldn't that put an interesting twist on what has been going on!!!!!

 

[JETJOHNSO]

I'm sure the chief is friends but at this point I think he has distanced himself from that and put on his county hat and looked into a better solution. Give him credit for that. thanks

 

[ruffryder]

...I see...and the FS is now determining what State Parks are to be closed ?...closure of the entire park is a dramatic over-reaction relative to this topic and WELL beyond the scope of these discussions/issues...but you think of it as you will.

The argument was if there is no access, what good is the snopark?

recursion

It is not my knowledge... I just passed others knowledge and information along... there is a difference
knowledge lol


On another note, if everyone that has viewed this thread gave 10 bucks, coming up with the money would no longer be an issue.....