COW Forest Plan proposes 238,800 acres for additional Wilderness

[DOO DAWG]

Washington Wilderness coalition alert today........


You're Invited to the Eastern Washington Forest Public Meeting and BBQ!


Western Washingtonians, this Saturday, August 13th is your only chance to ask for a wild future for our forests in Eastern Washington. WWC invites you to join us to ask for stronger protections of our wild lands and rivers and the unmatched recreation opportunities these provide. Afterwards, WWC is co-hosting a FREE cookout with conservation and recreation groups where you can get dogs, brews and more information about the forest plan.

When: 10 am with a BBQ directly following!
Where: The Mountaineers
Why: This is first time in Washington State history where the Forest Plans will recommend wilderness, and we want to be sure they recommend the right places and quantities to adequately protect our treasured wildlands.

The US Forest Service is holding a Public Meeting on the Okanogan-Wenatchee and Colville Forest Plan, which will determine how these national forests will be managed for the next 15 years or longer. This public meeting will have presentations by the Forest Service about their plans and the public comment process and then open the floor to questions, where you can make your concerns heard.

Can’t Make it? You can still make your voice heard. They are holding public meetings around the state, so look to find one that you can attend HERE. Or submit a comment HERE.

Learn More about the Plan

- KEEP THE WILD IN WASHINGTON -​

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Join Today​

Since 1979, Washington Wilderness Coalition has helped protect over 2 million acres of wilderness and roadless forests in Washington through grassroots action, advocacy and public education. Members provide the resources and political clout we need to protect and restore our wild forests and rivers, leaving a rich wilderness legacy for future generatio​

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[WMC]

Washington Wilderness coalition alert today........


You're Invited to the Eastern Washington Forest Public Meeting and BBQ!


Western Washingtonians, this Saturday, August 13th is your only chance to ask for a wild future for our forests in Eastern Washington. WWC invites you to join us to ask for stronger protections of our wild lands and rivers and the unmatched recreation opportunities these provide. Afterwards, WWC is co-hosting a FREE cookout with conservation and recreation groups where you can get dogs, brews and more information about the forest plan.

When: 10 am with a BBQ directly following!
Where: The Mountaineers
Why: This is first time in Washington State history where the Forest Plans will recommend wilderness, and we want to be sure they recommend the right places and quantities to adequately protect our treasured wildlands.

The US Forest Service is holding a Public Meeting on the Okanogan-Wenatchee and Colville Forest Plan, which will determine how these national forests will be managed for the next 15 years or longer. This public meeting will have presentations by the Forest Service about their plans and the public comment process and then open the floor to questions, where you can make your concerns heard.

Can’t Make it? You can still make your voice heard. They are holding public meetings around the state, so look to find one that you can attend HERE. Or submit a comment HERE.

Learn More about the Plan

- KEEP THE WILD IN WASHINGTON -​

​

Join Today​

Since 1979, Washington Wilderness Coalition has helped protect over 2 million acres of wilderness and roadless forests in Washington through grassroots action, advocacy and public education. Members provide the resources and political clout we need to protect and restore our wild forests and rivers, leaving a rich wilderness legacy for future generatio​

​

From the WWC. This sounds very familiar. Those guys are brilliant!-

"Specific Focus on Non Motorized Management – The Proposed Action puts forward a Motorized Backcountry land use allocation but does not have a counterpart Non Motorized Backcountry land use allocation. Instead, it is simply termed Backcountry. The forest plan needs to proactively manage for non motorized management through a land use allocation. The Plan Revision recognizes that there is a need to increase non-motorized recreational opportunities, especially in the southern part of the Okanogan-Wenatchee.
Winter Recreation Management - Both forests must use land allocations or some other mechanism to manage the balance between winter motorized and non motorized recreation. It would be unacceptable to ignore this growing management issue based on the higher impact technology of snowmobiles and increasing incidences of wilderness trespass for the life of this forest plan which will be 15-20 years."

 

[WMC]

Someone should have warned poor CO 2.0...

Should of added,

******note, "all mine" is referenced to land currently available to snowmobiles and does not included non snowmobile areas, voluntary non-motorized areas, and massive amounts of wilderness and other non-motorized areas.

lol, WMC, you choose your words so interestingly.

Hey we are still waiting on Mr Hurwitz' 1/3 Wilderness,1/3 Snowmobiles, 1/3 Winter Non-Motorized Plan. We would get behind that! Right now is more like 34% Wilderness, 60% Snowmobiles, 6% CFR and Voluntary (constantly violated) Non-Motorized Areas.

 

[ruffryder]

Hey we are still waiting on Mr Hurwitz' 1/3 Wilderness,1/3 Snowmobiles, 1/3 Winter Non-Motorized Plan. We would get behind that! Right now is more like 34% Wilderness, 60% Snowmobiles, 6% CFR and Voluntary (constantly violated) Non-Motorized Areas.

I think you have lost your credibility for being involved with snowmobilers in the discussion.

 

[snowmobiler]

we do wonder what made captain selfish so selfish.so our kids dont grow up like that.

 

[ruffryder]

we do wonder what made captain selfish so selfish.so our kids dont grow up like that.

or captain double talk so double talkie... lol

 

[WMC]

or captain double talk so double talkie... lol

Bwaaa haaa haa, you guys so funny, so funny!

Hmm, right now the Forest is 34% Wilderness, 6% Voluntary and CFR winter Non-Motorized, leaving 60% for snowmobile riding. We ask for a few percent more. I am selfish, got it.

You guys- so funny!

 

[ruffryder]

from turns all year...

There is also the amount of fuel from two stroke engines that goes to the ground- estimated in articles I have read as high as 40%. And it is clearly a myth about four stroke engines used on snowmobles- not to be seen much in use from a practical standpoint at least thus far. That fuel dump problem will come under increased scrutiny in the future.

I am just glad you are snowmobiler...

 

[ruffryder]

Has anyone been able to compile all of the stats about the number of users and the amount of area that the FS used in its determinations? I think I might take a look at it tonight and try and get some info together for those going to the meetings..

 

[DOO DAWG]

"......Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forests, I suggested that we could possibly have 1/3 of WNF as non-motorized, 1/3 as motorized and 1/3 shared used. Many non-motorized recreationist in attendance, including Gus Bekker, did not want anything to do with this forward thinking idea. Why not, if they wish for separation of uses?"

WHERE do read that proposal in that statement????

Hey we are still waiting on Mr Hurwitz' 1/3 Wilderness,1/3 Snowmobiles, 1/3 Winter Non-Motorized Plan. We would get behind that! Right now is more like 34% Wilderness, 60% Snowmobiles, 6% CFR and Voluntary (constantly violated) Non-Motorized Areas.

Still leaves you with 100%, wanting to impose your ideas on everyone. 11worth eh?

 

[ruffryder]

I guess I am going to need to make up some hours of work today..

Some interesting reads..

Trends in recreation, word doc

The major trend information from page 1, paragraph 2

The national population is growing; the amount of people recreating in the outdoors is increasing with the growing population; the diversity of ethnic groups is growing and more women are participating in outdoor recreation; the average age of people recreating is getting older; although the most popular recreation activities have held steady (camping and hiking), and are still the most popular activities, there are new ones that are growing significantly in demand. Because of our fast-paced society and career minded parents with children, people use the National Forests for shorter durations—they want more weekend experiences rather than multi-week ventures.

The part in bold is of importance and shows reasoning to limit the creation of new wilderness locations, as use of the forests has shifted away from being able to use these areas.

Page 2, paragraph

Trail use on all thre5e Forests has remained stable. However, the type of use on trails is changing; and with changing uses (increase in Mt. bikes and motorized equipment), there have been challenges in offering opportunities for the newer uses in combination with the traditional uses (hikers and horse-riders). There are fewer over-night hiking trips and more day-hike trips and this includes wilderness hikes as well. Winter trails have become more important, and there are grooming agreements associated with many of them.

again, less need on wilderness and more need on access

page 2, last paragraph

Demand for designated OHV routes is increasing. According to the Washington State Department of Licensing, in the counties where the National Forests reside (Chelan, Douglas, Kittitas, Yakima, Okanogan, Ferry, Pend Oreille, Stevens), OHV registration have gone up an average of 26% in Colville NF counties, 31% in Okanogan County, and 19% in Wenatchee NF Counties just in the past two years (these figures do not include motorcycles). Snowmobile registration in those same counties went up 14% in Colville NF Counties, they went down 3% in Okanogan County, and down 13% in Wenatchee NF Counties. There are other counties that influence these Forests as well (Spokane, Pierce, and King) which all have increased OHV registration, but gone down in snowmobile registration from 2002 to 2004. (Washington State Department of Licensing Vehicle Fee Distribution Report, www.dol.wa.gov/

This shows the importance of OHV areas and also shows how important registration numbers can be. Not just funds, but as a mechanism for quantifying users..

page 3, paragraph 2

Although Backpacking, Hiking, and Walking are still the most popular forms of travel on trails, Mt.Biking, and OHV riding are increasing in popularity and demand.

do mountain bikers and OHV's need more wilderness?

page 5, paragraph 2

However, there appears to be a growing demand for OHV routes that is predicted to continue to increase, and supply may not be meeting demand in some of the areas of the Forests. The OHV use seems to cross all income levels and age levels as well, and all surveys are fairly consistent with this prediction of increase.

Looks like OHV use seems to be the largest growing sector. Need for more wilderness??

page 5, paragraph 3

Budget has been declining for the past decade, and is predicted to decline further or stabilize at the level it is at now. Fostering mutually beneficial volunteer agreements will continue to be important to continue trail and trailhead maintenance and improvements, on trails that are important to some user groups, but may be falling out of the maintenance schedule.

does anyone have any data comparing the volunteer hours of different user groups? I have done some volunteering in the past, and I would be curious to see how much is done between the different user groups.

page 5, second to last paragraph

Driving for pleasure has a high participation rate across all age classes, income levels, and ethnic groups. Studies show it is on the increase. Trend data shows that viewing and photographing scenery has the highest percentage of participation than any other outdoor activity nation-wide, followed by visiting nature centers as second, and driving for pleasure as third. (Hall, 2005)

page 8, first paragraph

Since people are taking shorter trips into the wilderness, the campsites within the interior of the wildernesses are shrinking, but the campsites that are easier to get to with larger group sizes are remaining the same size as they have been for many years. There are some identified areas within some of the wildernesses that are at capacity. Although some campsites are larger due to traditional use patterns, the Wilderness Areas in general are on an upward trend in revegetation and naturalization.

seems to me, from a recreational point of view, there is no reason to expand the wilderness.

 

[ruffryder]

Wilderness info and statistics..

from the pdf,

10% of Washington state is Wilderness.

Preliminary Administrative Wilderness Recommendation Information for Proposed Action

This one is pretty good.. page 8

Backpacking – Colville: Limited opportunities due to layout of Forest and small amount of wilderness. Okanogan-Wenatchee: High use rate on the Wenatchee, primarily in wilderness, which is accessible and can accommodate future use.
Snowmobiling – Use expected to increase by 350 percent by 2050. Some PWAs have popular marked routes and play areas. For all three forests, all but two miles of groomed trail are outside PWAs. Climate change will alter winter use. High use on the Wenatchee and Colville, where projected increase could have impacts. A relative low use activity on Okanogan.
Backcountry Skiing – A low use for all three Forests. Many of the popular or important areas are in PWA’s. Groomed Nordic trails are mostly outside PWAs and many are associated with ski areas.
Hunting – National trend is for major decrease, but will remain a local significant use. Some PWAs have low OHV use related to hunting season. Colville and Wenatchee have relative high use and Okanogan low use. Wilderness and PWAs provides wildlife habitat.

Wow, so what is the FS planning on doing to accommodate all of us?

 

[WMC]

"

11worth eh?

What of it? Why would you post that?

Thanks for real conversation, anyway.

 

[ruffryder]

It is probably a good idea to look through some past comments as well.

Written Comments Received 2003 through 2-04-04

Some of the comments seem familiar....

 

[WMC]

from turns all year...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WMC
There is also the amount of fuel from two stroke engines that goes to the ground- estimated in articles I have read as high as 40%. And it is clearly a myth about four stroke engines used on snowmobles- not to be seen much in use from a practical standpoint at least thus far. That fuel dump problem will come under increased scrutiny in the future.


I am just glad you are snowmobiler...

What is the definition exactly? I have owned a snomo for a few decades.

I also own a Honda dirt bike, I do not expect to ride it anywhere and I do not get all pissy and puff out my chest because it is allowed only on designated trails.

The myth of four stroke engine snowmobiles used on the Forest (not- I saw 3 in 40 days unloading my 2-stroke snomo last season!), and the 25 to 30 percent of oil/gas mixture dumping on the ground in all of those offroad areas, that you guys are sending comments in right now claiming to have ridden there for how long(?), that is going to sneak up while you all piss, moan, and threaten anyone who asks to deal with the issues- not ask to ban snomos- deal with the issues.

Of course it is more fun to disparage me, but I am concerned that you guys' approach is playing right into the playbook of the extreme environmental agenda. Oh yeah, after you guys would not talk about dealing with this, those enviro types stepped up and are not on board with our advocacy. If the issues are not managed, if your response is basically "shut up, all mine, no problems" you are just helping to write the Court cases that will screw us all someday.

 

[ruffryder]

can you keep you pity party and tirade out of this thread please? you have made your points. It is time to move on to something more productive.

 

[DOO DAWG]

What of it? Why would you post that?

Thanks for real conversation, anyway.

Was just wondering if I am conversing with Mr Mullins,or Mr Bekker. Other than that, it just made sense. If you were to draw a N-S line on the pacific crest you would find that no city or town east of that line has more in common with the liberal greenie tyrants of Pugetropolis than 11worth.

 

[WMC]

Was just wondering if I am conversing with Mr Mullins,or Mr Bekker. Other than that, it just made sense. If you were to draw a N-S line on the pacific crest you would find that no city or town east of that line has more in common with the liberal greenie tyrants of Pugetropolis than 11worth.

True enough. However I happen to be on the other side, a former logger displaced by the Spotted Owl issues. A couple of decades ago I fur trapped on skis in some of the Wilderness area that in recent years has had snowmobile Wilderness trespass. Nothing that I do has anything to do with an enviro agenda, it has to do with public owners of the Forest having a fair chance to recreate. WMC was created because I am not an environmentalist, at one time I paid dues to BRC about 20 years ago. But things have changed in 20 years on the winter Forest. There is more than the one winter use, snowmobile riding, that needs accommodation of the accessible non-Wilderness Forest. Winter non-motorized Forest users need some areas for their use.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[CO 2.0]

Wilderness Acreage by State:

Alaska 57,425,910

California 14,982,645

Idaho 4,522,717

Washington 4,462,493

Colorado 3,700,148

Montana 3,443,407

Wyoming 3,111,232

Oregon 2,474,435

New Mexico 1,650,596

Utah 1,160,300

*Data last updated on 4/20/2011 from Wilderness.net

Listed are all major snow covered west coast states

 

[wiley75]

Will see you all in Cle Elum in 1 hour and 56 minutes. All you riders of snowmobiles better be there. I'm taking time off work to understand the issue and support our cause and so should you. Don't be part of the 95% mentioned earlier. If you ride, take action.