couple of questions about what to do

[MTbackcountry]

ok i havent rode much in the mountains besides the trials and just playing around in the trees a little bit, and i had some questions about what i should do when an avvy hits when im or someone else gets caught in one.

so say that i was riding, just got done doing a highmark and i cause an avvy, what would be the best way to try to get out of it???

i did some research on like when to ride and about how the temp will have an efect on a avvy, but i kinda didnt understand how they had put it, so if someone could just brief me over about that??

should i buy one of those back packs that have to air bag in them??, i think ther called birdys, not sure tho.

those are the main questions i had, if you have any other info that might help just let me know, thanx-Lane

 

[modsledr]

take an avalanche awareness class

 

[EagleRiverDee]

Agreed.

You shouldn't get caught in an avy, period. Awareness of your surroundings, weather conditions (recent and current), slope aspect, snow pack stability, etc. should be second nature to anyone traveling the back country.

That's not to say you shouldn't have the tools. A beacon, shovel and probe at the minimum. An avy pack if you've got the money. Just because you're being smart by being avy aware doesn't mean you won't observe some other person not being smart and that person buries themselves. You should have the tools to assess the situation and rescue, if possible.

 

[SnowBigDeal]

#1 - Take an avy class so you know how to avoid getting into an avy
#2 - Buy the gear just in case you make a mistake and do get caught in an avalanche.

In regard to what to do if you get caught, every avalanche is going to be different. In general, if you are still on your sled, try to take a diagnol line out of the avalanche and out of the slide path. Always be looking for your escape route.

 

[snowww1]

Take a snowmobile specific avalanche class. It will answer your questions.
Mike Duffy-avalanche instructor
www.avalanche1.com

 

[TIM]

What i have done is pin it down the hill. Also i have continued climbing out. it all depends on which way the sled is pointing when you realize the slide has occured. And where the break is. I have seen guys get behind the slide to not realize a second slab has broke and that buried them.

 

[snowww1]

Excellent point by Tim. Each situation is different. Definitely have an escape route planned for going up and coming down (good to have a plan A & B for both). Also to consider before climbing, where will the avalanche take you? Mike Duffy

 

[Arcteryx]

BUY A PACK

I'm sure I will get hammered for this opinion, but priority 1 for me would be to buy an AVY pack or vest. I AM A FAN OF HAVING ALL THE GEAR, AND ALSO GAINING ALL THE KNOWLEDGE that you can get from a good avy class. BUT the pack has been shown over and over that it gives you your best chance of survival IF you are caught in a slide. So since your original question is what should you do if caught in a slide, buy the pack and if you are caught in one, pull the handle. Yes there is more too it and your going to get the "take a class" thing pounded over and over on this thread. You can't predict every slide even with expert knowledge so being prepared by having the pack is a very important. AND yes a pack doesn't save everyone but The ABS Avalanche Airbag lowers mortality significantly from 23.0% to 2.5%. Here is a link to a study by the Austrian Association for Alpine and High Altitude Medicine. Much better to look at statistics than listen to peoples opinions.
Just my 2 cents. I've been in a slide so my perspective might be different from the others you'll read here.

http://www.snowpulse.ch/v3/medias/brugger_falk_report.pdf
http://www.snowpulse.ch/v5/movies-and-documentation/en/ read the pdf located at the bottom of the page

Abstract
This review aims to evaluate and compare avalanche safety equipment for downhill and off-piste skiers on the basis of published rescue data. A new classification for avalanche rescue devices is proposed.
With respect to the different mechanisms of action we distinguish the following categories rescue devices:
A) devices aiming to prevent or reduce the extent of burial (ABS Avalanche Airbag, Avagear);
B) devices aiming to shorten the duration of burial (avalanche beacon, K2 avalanche ball); and,
C) devices with the aim to prolong survival time during complete burial (AvaLung TM).

The reduction of mortality is essential for the assessment of efficiency, representing the main criterion for the evaluation. The ABS Avalanche Airbag lowers mortality significantly from 23.0% to 2.5%
(p=0.001) and is considered as acceptable, safe and useful (Class IIa, the safety equipment of choice).
Avalanche beacons are marginally effective at reducing fatalities, (p=0.054) (Class IIb, acceptable and
useful devices). Due to the lack of data, AvaLung, Avagear and the K2 Avalanche Ball are determined
to be “Class III, indeterminate efficacy”, as additional confirmation is needed.

 

[snowww1]

Arcteryx,
You are definitely correct. The avalanche airbag pack is your best chance of surviving an avalanche. I own one and agree that not all avalanches are predictable. Disturbing trend that I'm seeing is that some people think they do not need an avalanche class if they have an avalanche airbag pack. Some don't even read the directions for the pack or carry a beacon. About 5% of avalanche airbag pack users will not have the composure to pull the handle if caught.
Most avalanche accidents are caused by the human factor and being able to recognize what gets people in trouble has much to do in preventing accidents. Many people who have packs don't know when to deploy the pack. After taking a class, riders will have a much better understanding of avalanches, rescue, and what equipment works best (including what pack avalanche pack may work best for them). Increase your knowledge first, then you'll have a better chance of not getting caught. If I'm new to driving, I would still take a driving class even though my car has an airbag. Mike Duffy

 

[WARY]

We've been scolded here on SnoWest before for saying this, but we think avalanche air bags are going to become mandatory equipment in avalanche country, much like an avalanche beacon. Granted, avalanche beacons aren't "mandatory", but just about everybody with any sense at all wears one. We think avi-air bags are going to join beacons as equipment you would be foolish to enter avalanche country without.

Yes, we manufacture the AviVest air bag and we are trying to sell our product, but we got into this business because we wanted to try and save lives.

Sure, an avalanche air bag is no guarantee of surviving a slide, but the ABS system has already saved over 100 people in Europe and a few here in North America. How? Because Mother Nature, try as she may, cannot bury an avalanche air bag. Occasionally the air bags are destroyed by a rock or tree, but in most cases if you are harnessed to an air bag you are going to be on top of the snow when everything stops moving. We've done dozens and dozens of tests over the years with life sized dummies attached to air bags, and they end up on top of the avalanche.

 

[snowww1]

I agree that avalanche airbag packs will become standard equipment in the backcountry. Why shouldn't they? They are your best chance for surviving an avalanche. Any rider who has been buried by a slide has no problem purchasing one, since they never want to experience being buried again. Many of the serious riders have already adopted to this technology. It works.

 

[DTR]

Here's my take:

I own an ABS pack as insurance. I also wear a BCA Tracker, and carry a Shovel, and 9' probe in my pack.

I also carry and preach to my buddys about carrying the right equipment. This is my main reason for being an ABS owner; my buddies. It may be bad to say, but I don't know if I trust my buddies 100% to get me out, if I should become buried. We are all flatlanders, and I am the only one who has taken a class (Mike Duffy's when he was up in TRF, MN). The class, hands down, is an eye-opener. After that class, I ordered my pack.

Everyone reacts to stress(buddy buried would be high stress level), and I know that none of my buddies are in the kind of shape to dig a 6' hole at 2000', let alone 8000'. So, well I look a lot closer at what I ride on, and be aware of my surroundings, I feel a little better with an ABS pack of some sort. To me, it is $1000 well spent for something I hope to never use. I value my life at more than that, so its cheap in my mind.

It kind of comes down to this; look at your riding partners. Do you trust them (literally) with your life to know their beacons like they should, and have the stamina to find and dig you out, at higher altitudes than "normal"
living? If you do, awesome, get the cheap 3. I, however, aren't so sure. So I added the Big #4.

Another thing to think about, everyone knows 1 guy climbing at a time. But there is always someone who thinks thats BS and will take off before you are down. If there are 4 in your group, and 2 of you are caught, neither has an ABS, it can be a matter of who gets found first lives. If at least 1 of those has an ABS, they can possibly dig themselves out, then help find the other.

Just my thoughts. If you plan to ride there, don't skimp on the gear.
1. Knowledge (class)
2. Beacon, Shovel, Probe (ALL 3, not missing any)
3. ABS Pack (any brand)
4. Supplies for a night out

Many people forget about #4. I carry in my backpack enough to survive at least 1 night on the mountain. Yes, my pack gets heavy (about 22 lbs), but I know I will survive the night. Again, my buddies will probablly starve and/or freeze, as they refuse my advise on carring the stuff. But when stranded, it becomes every man for himself. I hate to think like that, but if they refuse to carry it, then I have done all I can, and claim no liability. When I am warm and nouished enough to get out in the morning, I will send help back for them.

I will probablly get beat up, but do you risk your own survival to help your buddy, and have no one get out? Or do everything you can to get out for help?

Its a long post, I guess, but I see too many of my fellow "flatlanders" unprepared.



DTR

 

[←snow∞motion→]

4. Supplies for a night out

DTR

This one is HUGE. Everyone talks about the big one and hopefully never needing to use their emergency equipment. Which is very true.

But, overnight stays are VERY common. If you are caught out overnight you realize immediately what you wish you had, lol. And my pack seems to get bigger and bigger.

You can always plan for the best and hope that nothing happens, which is 98% of the time, but you have to be ready for the 2% to.

We've stayed overnight 3 times, blizzard or white out conditions twice (couldn't even see trail markers) and once with broken/stuck sleds. Once was all it took, few frostbite issues and a VERY cold miserable night.

Long story short don't forget DTR's #4.

My $.02