CMX PLUS RAPTOR

[mikew5945]

Three snow bike reviews:
UFO:
Yes I understand it is off the market but it is a unit we compared to. It was mounted on a KTM 450. It had no breaks, yet, they were never needed. There was so much drag that not only you didn’t need a break but the 450 didn’t have the power to keep up with the Timber Sleds. If it was on the show room floor next to the Timber Sled I would purchase it first based upon looks, yet, looks were deceiving. During half the season we stripped off the gear on the track shaft. We ran it hard and one rider in our group got it to work but we also stuck him with it all the time. It was highly affected by rider weight.
Timbersled:
We ran the 2014 and the 2015 on a Honda 450 and a KTM 450. The problem here was the Honda always got the worst skis (front end kit discussed later) which gave me a bad impression which I unfairly put on the bike. The KTM had a 2014 121 TS with a belt drive. This unit was a nightmare to get running. Nothing was square or straight. After shimming and work it ran good with the belt drive. The Honda had the 2015 121 TS. During testing the 2014 obtained the 2.5” Yeti track. This was a drastic improvement over the stock track. Both units were an improvement over the UFO with the 2014 TS being better than the 2015. The belt drive and the track were the improvements. The belt drive freed up needed horse power and the 2.5” track was what we all knew it to be.
CMXBK:
OMG. Within the first 100’ we all knew this was a new world. They moved the unit forward over 1.5”. This changed the handling to the point where you have better control. It is 10 pounds lighter than the TS. The weights were from the 2014 121” vs the 121” CMX-BK. It has been built by a Snowmobile Builder. There are no grease zerks and all bearings are high speed and sealed. It has Ice Age rails with a snowmobile suspension backed up with Raptor Shocks. I had the 137” and was real worried. I bounced on it in the shop and thought I was going to get thrown off when I hit the bumps on the trail. Oh, how wrong I was. The suspension worked to perfection. It was a real smooth ride. We had no problems or adjustments on the suspension. Once again a Snowmobile Builder set them up. We had two 450 KTM bikes, one with a 121” and the other with a 129”. The other two were 500 KTM bikes with a 129” and a 137”. Each performed flawlessly.
Raptor Front end kit:
What a game changer. We ran this front end all winter. We used numerous skis and the current set works the best. Each ski works independently of the other and mounted to each fork. It is WOT on the trail with less stress on the rider’s shoulders. It really shines on the side hill. The uphill carbide of each ski holds the side hill. When crossing dirt it won’t dig or plows like the big Simmons Ski. Once you trust the front end you will be in 5th gear on the trail. One rider even said he will never ride a single ski again.
Conclusion:
The CMX-BK is a game changer. It gives the rider a greater feel of control in every situation. Combined with the Raptor front end it is the full package. This is my first year on the snow bikes and the difference is amazing. From the first time rider to the Pro, it will out preform your expectations. I am so glad I got to be part of the R&D on this project.

 

[Rush44]

Yes... Not a biased review at all. lol. You're "review" of the Timbersled is a total joke. The best things about it are the belt drive and Yeti track? 2014 better than the 2015 with the suspension and geometry changes? I can't trust your CMX review based on those silly comments. I'll listen to more impartial reviews.

Welcome to the snow bike forums.

 

[jeffk95z]

That Raptor dual ski setup looks interesting!

Look forward to hearing more riders reviews

 

[NEWDUCK]

Wouldnt mind selling the simmons ski you have laying around would you? or the yeti ski?

 

[mikew5945]

Yes... Not a biased review at all. lol. You're "review" of the Timbersled is a total joke. The best things about it are the belt drive and Yeti track? 2014 better than the 2015 with the suspension and geometry changes? I can't trust your CMX review based on those silly comments. I'll listen to more impartial reviews.

Welcome to the snow bike forums.

Don't take my word or it. Try it for yourself.

 

[dirtrebel]

Yes... Not a biased review at all. lol. You're "review" of the Timbersled is a total joke. The best things about it are the belt drive and Yeti track? 2014 better than the 2015 with the suspension and geometry changes? I can't trust your CMX review based on those silly comments. I'll listen to more impartial reviews.

Welcome to the snow bike forums.

2014 ts is better than '15

Don't take my word or it. Try it for yourself.

do u work for cmx or what? I believe you but transparency goes a long way!

 

[mikew5945]

2014 ts is better than '15



do u work for cmx or what? I believe you but transparency goes a long way!

No, I don't work for Mark or CMX. I ride in the Crazy Mountains with them. They needed people to help test and I happened to be there at the right time.
I also don't work for Jake or Raptor. I met him once and rode his sled with Raptors. I bought them and sang their praise also. I look for the best affordable bang for my buck.
I'm not the only rider on the mountain. Nick at Ice Age smoked me all over on a CMXBK the day these pictures were taken.

 

[dirtrebel]

The KTM had a 2014 121 TS with a belt drive. This unit was a nightmare to get running. Nothing was square or straight. After shimming and work it ran good with the belt drive.

I saw a craigslist ad a while ago around here about a "blueprinted" timbersled kit, I found the ts to be quite misaligned for my standards as well. This new cmx is true as an arrow? any tips u wanna share to gettting the ts trued up? Ive tried my best, but still seems tweaked! cmx-bk super true?

 

[Rush44]

2014 ts is better than '15

What specific changes in 2015 detracted from the kits performance when compared to 2014?

 

[mikew5945]

I saw a craigslist ad a while ago around here about a "blueprinted" timbersled kit, I found the ts to be quite misaligned for my standards as well. This new cmx is true as an arrow? any tips u wanna share to gettting the ts trued up? Ive tried my best, but still seems tweaked! cmx-bk super true?

The TS you saw on craigslist is the one we used. Mark had to shim and square it up to run the belt drive. Took many hours to square it up.
The CMXBK parts were all CNC water cut. It is true and straight. If you know Mark, he is a perfectionist. The TS misalignment drove him nuts. My thoughts were that you can't expect bearings to work on a misaligned piece of equipment. Tips?? I'd have to refer you to Mark at Crazy Mountain Motorsports.

 

[dirtrebel]

What specific changes in 2015 detracted from the kits performance when compared to 2014?

my opinion (only that) is the clearance for a larger than 2" track and the plastic chain case cover. I just felt like the '15 did not really offer anything different than the the 14 and it was a small step backwards to reduce seat height for the novice riders. I love timbersled and their products but I was not impressed with the 15, I ended up selling mine and buying a used '14 so I could run a 2.5 inch track. I could not tell a difference in the geometry change for 15.

 

[dirtrebel]

The TS you saw on craigslist is the one we used. Mark had to shim and square it up to run the belt drive. Took many hours to square it up.
The CMXBK parts were all CNC water cut. It is true and straight. If you know Mark, he is a perfectionist. The TS misalignment drove him nuts. My thoughts were that you can't expect bearings to work on a misaligned piece of equipment. Tips?? I'd have to refer you to Mark at Crazy Mountain Motorsports.

I don't know mark, however after making my own kits for 2 years before buying a ts i know the ins and outs of them, frustrating for sure! I am sure a belt must be alot straighter than a chain, thanks for the reply

 

[portgrinder]

There are no unbiased opinions on here. everyone should know that. This isnt just the timbersled section anymore and people are going to have to live with differing opinions.

i think the 2 ski idea is neat. packing all of the snow under the track instead of just the middle should work well and might even be more efficient than a single ski. how does it work with the forks like the new kawi's where they do different jobs?

The TS kits are pretty tough to keep aligned. even a TS guy shouldnt be able to argue that.

its going to be great with some of these newer guys coming out with kits. consumers will ultimately benefit as each of the mfg's either improve or step aside.

 

[Mtn. Muncher]

Yes, it all looks interesting. I know Jake a Raptor Shock very well from past business dealing and he is a good guy and very smart. I believe he is fully capable of making a product that works well. In my opinion, the front end looks like it could perform very well. “Great concept Jake and way to think outside the box”. I have not had the privilege to test it yet but look forward to doing so. My first thought without knowing for sure is it will have its place in the industry where it will be a home run. I am thinking more so on trails. For mountain riding I am not sure of the 2 ski idea. A friend told me one of the best comments I have ever heard about a snow bike. He said, “The best thing about a snow bike is that the 1 ski will just not straddle a tree”. We ride not stop in thick trees and I for see wedging trees between the skis could be a problem. Just my opinion. Regardless I am pumped to test this product.<O</O
<O</O
As for the CMX kit I am a little disappointed to see how much their product resembles ours. This style of kit seems to be the industry standard now. There kit dose look really nice, they did a good job of making it look cool and has some innovative things on it. With today’s social media it is very easy for companies to get the word out about their product and make it sound the way they want in comparison to the competitor. I looks forward to lining up our 2016 product with their 2016 product. Yeti made it sound like there super lightweight kit was so much better than ours and when we got to finally go ride with them on our 2016 line up with new TSS, new Convex 2.5” track and rear suspension that was clearly not the case. I will say no more it’s not my liberty to speak detail.<O</O
<O</O
This winter will be a good one (if we get any snow) for all to see the abilities of the new kits coming out. They all seem to be very evenly matched with track width and lengths. “The proof will be in the powder”. I hope that we can get all companies involved together to do a ride. The McCall Idaho Flash Point snow bike race and fun ride at the end of January is a good time and place to do this. I invite all to come and participate in a fun weekend of the largest snow bike gathering in history.<O</O
<O</O
Allen from Timbersled<O</O

 

[Rush44]

I'll say my partial-ness boils down to what I ride for sure. Owned TS since 2012 and started riding them in the spring of 2011 thanks to some prodding from the right people. Every season I have upgraded to the new stuff either through buying the parts or a entire new kit... same goes for this upcoming season. Each year has been an improvement from the previous year, including 2015, which I noticed the suspension and geometry upgrades specifically in the early season when we actually had some soft snow. I also upgraded my shock package and that was another improvement.

I am ALL for new products, checking out the new things (within financial limits of course), and honest product review. If something sucks on the TS I'm going to say it. People will remember complaints about the original ski, the original bearing setup, the original shock spring stiffness issues, the tracking in the hardpack before the dual keel runner, the rigid cut down tracks, tunnel length on the LT, the silly snowflap... Timbersled has made strides to address these and let the public know they hear them. We all discussed these things over the years and all of us complained about them. I feel like I've been heard.

I just go back and re-read the original post and.... it just sounds like a bash/puff piece. A fair comparison would have been vs the 2016 kit, really. Maybe it is just me. Either way, CMX has a reputation for build quality and it was evident in some of the monster sleds I've seen from them in the past. I'm sure their kit has some cool features. I just want it given to me without the salesman pitch. Words like "OMG" "Game Changer" "Flawless" and whatnot seem hokey and devoid of real information to me.

I guess I want the opinion from the guy who tears it apart and beats the hell out of it. It must be the nerd in me.

 

[M5-]

Love it or hate it you have to hand it to CMX for coming up with the first truly all new idea for snowbikes to appear in quite some time. I'd have to ride it myself as I'm not sure if its better to have a single ski for sidehilling or this dual setup. I'm sure it would depend on snow conditions to a large extent.


M5

 

[NEWDUCK]

Seems like it would be easy to build something to lock and unlock the skis for different conditions.

 

[IceAge Performance]

** Disclaimer! - We make money selling TS kits, as well as parts and assemblies to CMX, C3, Etc. We do our best to keep things unbiased but we are people not robots! **

Lets get down to it!

A quick history. The staff here has been riding sleds since the mid 90's when the mountain segment began to emerge. We have always shared a passion for riding and enjoying the backcountry and constantly striving for higher levels of performance. In '12 we picked up a few snowbikes as Timbersled began to reach out with the Mountain Horse. The staff instantly fell in love. Was it a replacement for the shop sleds? Absolutely not! But indeed it was a great new way to enjoy the mountains. In our position we have owned all sorts of sleds, and now snowbikes in the constant effort to improve the industry and develop products. The one thing we have found we all keep coming back to in the recent years is the snowbikes. They are simple, reliable, and take a lot less effort to enjoy. We still all sled and enjoy them greatly, but at the end of the day, everyone here has their own personal snowbike kit and only one has a sled.

Now moving onto the kits. Timbersled has set the bar and been the only true mountain snowbike on the market to date. It has been very cool as a community to see the idea and the company grow. We have also been very lucky to have our direct feedback taken and put into affect, something that does not happen in an OEM type scenario. Timbersled has put in the time, put in the dollars and has reaped the rewards. Being bought by Polaris is a huge compliment and very impressive step for an aftermarket company in this industry. They paved the way for others to come into play, they have proved the snowbike market. It took some doing but they have shown that converted dirtbikes for winter use are a real and viable winter sport. It was only a matter of time before this market expanded enough and others wanted to get a piece of the pie and throw their spin on the converted dirtbike.

Onto some comparison!

To be far we are going to compare the 2016 TS MH ST (with traditional strut rod) to the new 2016 CMX kit. We don't have enough time on either for a full long term review, but just trying bring the highlights that we have seen riding both this spring.


'16 TS - Massive improvements over the last few years, new track, skid, etc, constantly bringing innovation.

-Price coming in about $1k cheaper, hard to argue that one.
-track - their track does work a bit better in setup and harder snow, in deep snow they seem very on par.
-single ski - proven tech, it works, and it works well. The deeper keel can cause heavy steering in certain snow, but very broad capabilities.
- suspension - the 2016 suspension stepped the game up greatly in the feel of the ride, much better bump control and bottoming resistance then previous models.
-most universal - at this point they do have a greater edge regarding availability of bike options to run on.
-industry standard - at this point Allen and his team have the floor. We are excited for new offerings to drive competition, but the TS is by far the standard to be judged by.

16 CMX First year offering but very well refined product.

- Tolerances - The CMX being all machined and I believe laser cut parts creates a higher level of precision in the overall frame assembly fitament, also what drives the slightly higher price. precision costs money.
-rear suspension - raptor shocks and a more progressive rate suspension design make for a very impressive bump handling for the initial setup, and will only get better with time.
-adjustable to the bike frame - the kit has multiple mounting options and can be moved forward or backward depending on the host bike. For non linkage KTM/berg/husq bikes this means you can slide the kit up almost 2" closer then a linkage bike! Very cool option.
-dual ski- I know everyone wants a massive review on this but we don't have a ton of time on it. In moderate powder and spring conditions the overall shallower keel situation makes for much lighter steering. This is going to be a big improvement for midwest or trailer riders and I think is going to be a cool option to expand the snowbikes out of the mountains. We didn't get to ride it on any deep days so can't speak on that. As for lots of the little speculations, its summer, we get it, nobody can ride, were all a bit ornery!


We haven't been able to get any side by side deep snow testing, but rest assured, come December we will get them lined up! Overall since we are more focused on the new CMX kit, it is direct competition to the TS kits, the price is a bit higher but your paying for the higher end components like better shocks, aluminum shafts, belt drive etc. CMX took the legendary quality/performance they are known for and brought it to the snowbike world.

Happy Summer Time

 

[scottbilt95]

mirror, mirror......

probably going to be difficult to make it look "revolutionary" as everybody is going to have use the majority of same/very similar parts (track, rails, shocks, etc.) that were in existence and utilized in a similar fashion long before the snowbike concept. even more so since it's a young industry without decades of past experience to grow from. if someone comes come out with a new ski, track, handlebar, e-motion, pro-motion, whatever they are probably going to look similar to their predecessors. the raptor front end, whether it works or not, is a "revolutionary" design. at the end of he day, the cream will rise to the top and much will be decided on the hill. pretty hard to argue with real world results. very pumped to see the direction this industry is heading.

jeff

 

[backcountryislife]

I'm not a fan of the front end, but HUGELY a fan of the skid being moved forward... anyone who has ridden a TS with an uncut strut HAS to notice how off it seems. There's no reason we should need such heavy springs for winter, the kit is just too far back imo. bringing the balance point forward, taking weight off the ski has to be a good thing in my world.