I was wondering what the best fix for a secondary where the belt runs to the bottom at WOT and leaves a black ring. Needs more spring? I've seen this on both team and arctic cat clutches. This is on my 1500cc 4 stroke turbo. Running a Polar 4 post with the heaviest weights they make makes. The team has a 64-40 with a red blk spring and the cat roller had a 48-44 with a red/wht.
Clutching question
- Thread starter astro
- Start date
What are your track speeds? Almost sounds to me like you are running out of gearing. Just a thought as if the belt is on the bottom then it is fully shifted out. Sounds like you have a lot of power in your setup as well.
Take a look at your gearing and determine based off of your max rpm what your max mph should be on your track assuming 1-1 ratio through your gears. If they are close it might be worth changing your gearing.
Take a look at your gearing and determine based off of your max rpm what your max mph should be on your track assuming 1-1 ratio through your gears. If they are close it might be worth changing your gearing.
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theres 4 ways to address this. More helix more spring in the secondary or more spring in the primary or gearing.
if the engine has enough power to pull it, aren't you just stalling the shift out with your recommendations?
just trying to learn something..
With the clutching recommendation those are 3 ways to slow the upshift.
Doesn't that assume that the problem is during shifting / acceleration and not during steady state or after the clutches are done shifting out?
thanks for the info.
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SnowDevil
Well-known member
this depends on how you drive the sled. If you do a hard pull on the trail and then chop the throttle you can get full shift out and leave marks on the clutch.
Can you feel the belt skip at full throttle or run out of gears and hit the rev limiter? then you would need to change gears.
I would do a little more experimenting and find out how it happens before spending money.
Can you feel the belt skip at full throttle or run out of gears and hit the rev limiter? then you would need to change gears.
I would do a little more experimenting and find out how it happens before spending money.
C
clutch man
Well-known member
You our not loading the motor up enough with the team for your power i would run a 70-46 or a 70-44 with a black/gold spring. for the cat clutch i would run a 57-50 with red/ wht. you may have to grear it up some too to load that motor.
Gear taller. Your shifting out all the way.....if you are easily achieving full shift it won't matter what you do with clutching because at full shift the tuning components are no longer able to load the engine....they are only effective UP TO full shift. The more power you make the taller you need to gear. JMHO-
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clutch man
Well-known member
This is part true the fact is your driven clutch is shifting out to fast. To fix this you have to put in steeper helix and spring to over come this. do this first then play with gearing. To know what to gear it needs you need to know what track you have the lug hight and length and what gearing you have now.
No mater what gearing you have it can be clutched to not slip the belt, with in reason.
From what i see with what you have for your clutching you need to get it closer first.
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Running a 174 2.5 with 20/42 gears with 7 tooth drivers. Motor in the 350+ range with 250 ft/lbs of torque. Max RPM 8300-8400. If my math is right I should be just under 90 MPH.
Actually one of the problems I'm having is loading the motor to much in the bottom end before the turbo comes on. I get to max RPM, but it just takes 2-3 seconds. I just got some new ramps that should help with this and I got a new Tied coming with a reverse angle helix.
One thing I was running into with the steeper helix was belt slippage.
Actually one of the problems I'm having is loading the motor to much in the bottom end before the turbo comes on. I get to max RPM, but it just takes 2-3 seconds. I just got some new ramps that should help with this and I got a new Tied coming with a reverse angle helix.
One thing I was running into with the steeper helix was belt slippage.
with a steeper helix that slips add spring pressure..then if it over revs add weight...
Dude you need way taller gearing.
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Snowstar
Well-known member
Your on the right track with a reverse cut helix like most turbo sleds run. Not sure on the tied team but if you have the TSS 98 or 04 try something like 36-48 with a Black/Orange or Black/Limegreen spring. That Red/Black is just too soft for your application. Are you going to Fairview again?
Going to try to get to Fairview. Hope to get the clutching done before that.
The Team Was just something I threw on there to try. I figured it didn't have the right parts.
So the consensus is more helix and spring followed by steeper gears?
The Team Was just something I threw on there to try. I figured it didn't have the right parts.
So the consensus is more helix and spring followed by steeper gears?
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Put the Tied on and it seems to be a lot closer to what I want. Seems to be making more heat than it should. The Helix is 57-62-.36 59-64-.36 and I got the Blk/wht 160-260 and the Gold/black 170-240. There seems to be slippage in the 1st 75% of the shift range, no defined black marks but more of a sheen. Primary is cool. This is the set up recommended by Jason at Team. Tried all the different combinations this would allow. Do I need more starting rate on the spring? Less Helix?
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Spaarky
Well-known member
Listen to what he is saying. I EASILY pull taller gears than that will my 700T, and you are making a TON more power.
Saw the same thing as you in a buddies sled... except his would slam in so hard, it would snap the belt. Gearing went a long ways.
IMO its slippin, because the gearing is way too low. The drivetrain cant keep up with the BEAST under the hood. Get some gear in that HOTROD, and then worry about the clutching.
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So are you actually trying to say if I put more load on a secondary that is already slipping it is going to slip less?
The Tied clutch isn't black stripping at the bottom
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When I put my 1160 in my sled with the gearing I was using for an 800 as soon I squeezed the throttle my cat secondary was crushed by the belt.
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Spaarky
Well-known member
I am not a clutching expert... just know what I have seen. To me its like gearing a top fuel funny car to 100mph, your going to blow the tires off everytime. Your clutches cant function properly, cause with the low gearing they cant keep up. They go from nothing to full shift out in a matter of seconds(if that)... and its busting the belt loose.
I just find it interesting that you are pulling shorter gears than my 700T. Mine is ALOT taller and it will pull it all day long, and has unbelievable bottom end. Everyone has their own way of doing things though....
